The Enterprise-E is so ugly

[C.E. Evans]

I'm inclined to think that during the Dominion War, the practice of having regular passengers aboard active duty Starfleet vessels was either suspended or outright cancelled. In the years since, though, it might have been reinstated, but I never saw the practice as being something that more than a small percentage of the fleet took part in anyway.

 

[Viper78]

Picard might have preferred the Ent-E...there didn't seem to be any children aboard.

We know that Picard wasn't keen on having children on board a starship from early on in TNG. I got the impression that at the end of the series he had got used to the idea.

As the Enterprise E is quite a bit smaller than the "D" I had always assumed that the "E" didn't have families onboard. If it didn't have children onboard I'm sure that would have been a relief to Picard.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Picard might have preferred the Ent-E...there didn't seem to be any children aboard.

In the majority of episodes set aboard the Enterprise Dee, the children were out of sight and out of mind. I think the Enterprise E also had children on board, they just weren't a part of the story.

I have to agree. The E was almost as large as the D so no reason why there wouldn't be children aboard.

Except for the peacful era TNG was in which allowed for the families on starships idea ended when the Borg destroyed 39 Starfleet ships and the Dominion kicked Starfleet's ass when they made first contact.

Seeing as the incidents pointed out the idiocy of that policy Starfleet probably abandoned it about the time it finally sunk in that they were a military organization.

 

[Lance]

In the majority of episodes set aboard the Enterprise Dee, the children were out of sight and out of mind. I think the Enterprise E also had children on board, they just weren't a part of the story.

I have to agree. The E was almost as large as the D so no reason why there wouldn't be children aboard.

Except for the peacful era TNG was in which allowed for the families on starships idea ended when the Borg destroyed 39 Starfleet ships and the Dominion kicked Starfleet's ass when they made first contact.

Seeing as the incidents pointed out the idiocy of that policy Starfleet probably abandoned it about the time it finally sunk in that they were a military organization.

I take T'Girl's point on board. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that there aren't families on the 1701-E, off-screen. Nothing to suggest it, but nothing to disprove it either.

'Voyager' obliterated the idea of there being families on the ship, a big deal was made out of Naomi Wildman. But the TNG features and DS9 never did (overtly).

So maybe the USS Voyager never had families on board, but that could be down to the size of the ship or the idea that it wasn't a "long range" space mission sort of vessel. Families might be outside her mission statement (which was probably shorter tour-of-duties anyway, so no-one needed to bring their folks with them, if returning to base was always intended to be more frequent).

Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away. Which seems to indicate to me that the 'military families' concept begun with TNG was obviously still in play in that series.

So really, I'm gonna call B.S. on the whole "The Borg and the Dominion made Starfleet realize that having families around was a bad idea" theory.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away. Which seems to indicate to me that the 'military families' concept begun with TNG was obviously still in play in that series.

Except DS9 was a heavily armed space fortress by that time so the concept wasn't that insane over there.

So really, I'm gonna call B.S. on the whole "The Borg and the Dominion made Starfleet realize that having families around was a bad idea" theory.

Mostly becuase you believe imaginary civilians which were never seen or mentioned were just hiding on the Enterprise-E.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away.

Miles and Keiko made that decision themselves. They didn't return until things were a bit more stable (after DS9 was taken back from the Dominion) about a year later. But unlike most Starfleet vessels, DS9 had a sizeable civilian population from the start.

 

[Cyke101]

Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away. Which seems to indicate to me that the 'military families' concept begun with TNG was obviously still in play in that series.

Except DS9 was a heavily armed space fortress by that time so the concept wasn't that insane over there.

To add, DS9 was also by a planet that was (on paper, at least) protected from the ravages of war in case the Dominion tried anything funny, so civilians could flee to Bajor in case of emergency. It's a luxury that starships in the gulfs of space don't have.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away. Which seems to indicate to me that the 'military families' concept begun with TNG was obviously still in play in that series.

Except DS9 was a heavily armed space fortress by that time so the concept wasn't that insane over there.

To add, DS9 was also by a planet that was (on paper, at least) protected from the ravages of war in case the Dominion tried anything funny, so civilians could flee to Bajor in case of emergency. It's a luxury that starships in the gulfs of space don't have.

Plus the whole needing a considerably large fleet to take a place with starbase level defenses down as opposed to the one or two ships needed to win against a starship.

 

[T'Girl]

Except for the peacful era TNG was in which allowed for the families on starships idea ended when the Borg destroyed 39 Starfleet ships and the Dominion kicked Starfleet's ass when they made first contact.

If Renee had be living with his uncle on the dangerious starship, instead of with his mother and father on peaceful safe Earth, he'd probably still be alive.

... it finally sunk in that they were a military organization.

I grew up on military installations, plenty of children running around. the base where I was born wasn't that far from the Fundy Gap and likely was a prime target during the cold war.

 

[Ithekro]

Enterprise-E seems (from what we see of it) to not be on a long term exploration mission. Every time we see it, it is in Federation space on some other kind of mission. It may not have been designed as a long range explorer like the Galaxy-class, and thus not need to have been fitted for long term habitability by families.

Also, I'd hate to think what ramming the Scimitar would have done to all those family units quarters in the last film, if the crew still had their families on board.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Enterprise-E seems (from what we see of it) to not be on a long term exploration mission. Every time we see it, it is in Federation space on some other kind of mission. It may not have been designed as a long range explorer like the Galaxy-class...

To be fair, the idea that the Galaxy-class was a long-range explorer is really more of an off-screen thing and doesn't really hold up that well onscreen. Looking at it purely from that perspective, the missions for both the Galaxy- and Sovereign-classes appear to be the same, that of a large multipurpose vessel.

 

[Viper78]

We don't really know from the films what type of ship the Sovereign class is. We get the impression that the Galaxy class is a long range explorer, hence the reason for families onboard.

We also don't know if the Enterprise E itself had families onboard as it's not indicated from what we see on screen and because of this I had always assumed that the Sovereign class had a different mission profile.

I think the Soveriegn class was designed to compliment the Galaxy class rather than replace it as it would have likely been in it's design stage when the Galaxy class was launched.

 

[Ithekro]

The Galaxy-class would seem to be designed as a long range explorer by how Picard and others describe their mission early in the first season and perhaps into the second season. After that the whims of the writers and other things kept Enterprise in Federation space for the most part.

The Sovereign-class is an unknown as we only see it in three films. Though the line from Picard in Insurrection might be a clue, "Remember when we use to be explorers". Either the ship is not set up as a long range explorer, or the duties of the "Flagship of the Federation" has overwritten the task of exploration for the Enterprise and her crew. Even after the Dominion War, it seems like Captain Picard is assigned as "first response" type missions by Starfleet Command.

 

[C.E. Evans]

We don't really know from the films what type of ship the Sovereign class is. We get the impression that the Galaxy class is a long range explorer, hence the reason for families onboard.

But if you really look at the Galaxy-class, though, the actual impression is that of a large jack-of-all-trades vessel that can do a wide variety of missions. The reason for families onboard was never really given onscreen.

The Galaxy-class would seem to be designed as a long range explorer by how Picard and others describe their mission early in the first season and perhaps into the second season.

The Enterprise carried out many different kinds of missions throughout its lifetime, including exploration, defense, and even fairly routine cargo deliveries. The ship was able to quickly return back to Earth whenever it wanted to, however.

 

[Lance]

So really, I'm gonna call B.S. on the whole "The Borg and the Dominion made Starfleet realize that having families around was a bad idea" theory.

Mostly becuase you believe imaginary civilians which were never seen or mentioned were just hiding on the Enterprise-E.

No, mostly because your claim that "it finally sunk in that they were a military organization" as a result of the Borg and Dominion incursions just doesn't hold water for me. Even if we do for a moment accept the above theory as a reasonable extrapolation of why the families eventually 'disappeared' from Starfleet ships, the fact is that we saw families on the D for four whole seasons (and one movie) after that Borg battle. So I just don't find the idea credible. Why wait five years before moving families off the front line, if Wolf 359 was apparently supposed to be some kind of 'line in the sand' moment for the Federation?

 

[Maurice]

...The E was almost as large as the D so no reason why there wouldn't be children aboard.

In terms of volume, the Sovereign class Enterprise-E is roughly 40% the size of the Galaxy class Enterprise-D (ray-tracing programs used to calculate volumes on multiple Galaxy and Sovereign models for Trek mods; Galaxy consistently comes in at ~5.2 million m^3, Sovereign at ~2.0 million m^3).

Source (link).
Not "canon" but based on CG models based on official materials, so make of that what you will.

 

[RoJoHen]

Even after the Dominion War, it seems like Captain Picard is assigned as "first response" type missions by Starfleet Command.

That's the problem with being good at your job. Sometimes your boss keeps you around because he can't trust anybody else to do it.

 

[Viper78]

...The E was almost as large as the D so no reason why there wouldn't be children aboard.

In terms of volume, the Sovereign class Enterprise-E is roughly 40% the size of the Galaxy class Enterprise-D (ray-tracing programs used to calculate volumes on multiple Galaxy and Sovereign models for Trek mods; Galaxy consistently comes in at ~5.2 million m^3, Sovereign at ~2.0 million m^3).

Source (link).
Not "canon" but based on CG models based on official materials, so make of that what you will.

This is another reasons I assumed there were no families onboard the Enterprise-E and why I consider the Sovereign class a replacement for another class of ship (Such as the Excelsior) rather than a direct replacement for the Galaxy class.

Although the Sovereign class is the longest ship in starfleet (mainly due to the length of the nacells) it's probably the 4th largest in stafleet behind the Galaxy, Ambassador and Nebula.

Like I said in a previous post, although more advanced at launch, Picard and Riker might have considered the Enterprise-E and mission profile as a bit of a downgrade.

 

[Lance]

^ I'm loving the Colin McCrae quote in your sig, Viper78!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

...The E was almost as large as the D so no reason why there wouldn't be children aboard.

In terms of volume, the Sovereign class Enterprise-E is roughly 40% the size of the Galaxy class Enterprise-D (ray-tracing programs used to calculate volumes on multiple Galaxy and Sovereign models for Trek mods; Galaxy consistently comes in at ~5.2 million m^3, Sovereign at ~2.0 million m^3).

Source (link).
Not "canon" but based on CG models based on official materials, so make of that what you will.

This is another reasons I assumed there were no families onboard the Enterprise-E and why I consider the Sovereign class a replacement for another class of ship (Such as the Excelsior) rather than a direct replacement for the Galaxy class.

Although the Sovereign class is the longest ship in starfleet (mainly due to the length of the nacells) it's probably the 4th largest in stafleet behind the Galaxy, Ambassador and Nebula.

Like I said in a previous post, although more advanced at launch, Picard and Riker might have considered the Enterprise-E and mission profile as a bit of a downgrade.

At the time of FC, I'd argue that the Galaxy-class was nowhere near the end of its service life, the implication being that similar ships of a new kind were not needed. The Excelsior-class, on the other hand, might well have been, though.