Which ships would you include in Starfleet during TOS?

[Wingsley]

Another thing that would be interesting to see in TOS (or pseudo-TOS, or whatever) would be warptugs. I envision a Federation interstellar backbone of freight-bearing ships (and passenger-liners) being tugged on spacelanes between worlds and space stations to keep personnel, equipment and materiel commerce flowing, as well as for exploration and colonization. In 2008 I started a discussion on this subject, and there were some interesting ideas on what Federation (and civilian) warptugs would look like.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I "kitbashed" a pre-TMP Miranda many years ago.

.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Another thing that would be interesting to see in TOS (or pseudo-TOS, or whatever) would be warptugs. I envision a Federation interstellar backbone of freight-bearing ships (and passenger-liners) being tugged on spacelanes between worlds and space stations to keep personnel, equipment and materiel commerce flowing, as well as for exploration and colonization. In 2008 I started a discussion on this subject, and there were some interesting ideas on what Federation (and civilian) warptugs would look like.

The Starfleet Battles role-playing game had some warptugs as part of the fleet...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The FJ tug seems to have a lot of unnecessary structure for the job of tugging things. You'd think a full saucer would not be needed for that, whereas on the other hand it would need more in the way of the secondary (a.k.a. engineering) hull.

That latter "whereas..." remark about the FJ tug is one major problem with the FJ destroyers/scouts; IMO their saucers need more overt modification to hold main engineering (which applies back to the FJ tug). Other problems with the FJ destroyers/scouts such as bad placement of the main deflector and the lack of a shuttle bay have been addressed in fan designs in multiple reasonable ways (the main deflector issue is also applicable to the FJ tug).

Nerys Myk, I like your TOS-era Miranda. If it has a problem with its main deflector being totally absent, it inherits that problem from the TWOK Reliant, obviously.

 

[Ithekro]

I was under the impression that in the early 1970s they thought that main engineering was in the saucer section near the impulse drive, rather than in the secondary hull.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I was under the impression that in the early 1970s they thought that main engineering was in the saucer section near the impulse drive, rather than in the secondary hull.

Not all fans did; I believe the debate on the matter still rages today. I was just bluntly weighing in on where I think main engineering is.

ETA - Here is Where on the USS Enterprise Is the Engine Room? by Greg Tyler. I'm not necessarily endorsing any of what he says there; it's just a relatively well-known treatise on the subject from the last decade or so.

 

[Avro Arrow]

There are a number of designs on Masao's Starfleet Museum website that I think fit right into the TOS universe with just a bit of fleshing out.

Yeah, agreed, Masao has some great designs. A few of them have even been featured in TOS-era novels:

- Pyotr Velikiy class in "The Ruins of Noble Men" in Vanguard: Declassified
- Capella class in DTI: Forgotten History
- and the Archer class, which I don't see on his site, but which is based on his Paris class. It appeared throughout Vanguard, and will also feature in the new Seekers series. It can be seen on the cover of the newly-released Seekers: Second Nature.

 

[Dukhat]

I "kitbashed" a pre-TMP Miranda many years ago.

.

Nice digibash, but I wonder if it's really necessary to have the Miranda class be a pre-refit design. The TOS Constitution class was already several decades old by "Court Martial," so it's entirely possible that the NCC-1864 was the Reliant in her TWOK configuration, and might have always been so. The earliest known Miranda class registry is the Lantree's 1837, so it's possible that the 1800 batch of ships were already the TMP style.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The TOS Constitution class was already several decades old by "Court Martial," so it's entirely possible that the NCC-1864 was the Reliant in her TWOK configuration, and might have always been so. The earliest known Miranda class registry is the Lantree's 1837, so it's possible that the 1800 batch of ships were already the TMP style.

Wouldn't this strain credibility that the refit Enterprise was having "engine design difficulties"? I thought the whole idea was that the refit Enterprise was the first ship with the block-style nacelles.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I "kitbashed" a pre-TMP Miranda many years ago.

.

Nice digibash, but I wonder if it's really necessary to have the Miranda class be a pre-refit design. The TOS Constitution class was already several decades old by "Court Martial," so it's entirely possible that the NCC-1864 was the Reliant in her TWOK configuration, and might have always been so. The earliest known Miranda class registry is the Lantree's 1837, so it's possible that the 1800 batch of ships were already the TMP style.

Where is the fun in that?

My theory is the 1700s and 1800s were sister designs put into service at the same time.

 

[Dukhat]

The TOS Constitution class was already several decades old by "Court Martial," so it's entirely possible that the NCC-1864 was the Reliant in her TWOK configuration, and might have always been so. The earliest known Miranda class registry is the Lantree's 1837, so it's possible that the 1800 batch of ships were already the TMP style.

Wouldn't this strain credibility that the refit Enterprise was having "engine design difficulties"? I thought the whole idea was that the refit Enterprise was the first ship with the block-style nacelles.

But the Connie refit isn't the same ship as the Miranda class. Two completely different engine rooms, even if the nacelles are the same.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Hmmm.

 

[Warped9]

The TOS Constitution class was already several decades old by "Court Martial,"

We don't know that. From what's been said after the fact the ships are likely only aboyt 20-25 years old. That's not "several decades.'

 

[Dukhat]

The TOS Constitution class was already several decades old by "Court Martial,"

We don't know that. From what's been said after the fact the ships are likely only aboyt 20-25 years old. That's not "several decades.'

Two decades then. Is that better?

 

[Ithekro]

By Court Martial (or slightly after it) it is established that USS Enterprise has been around for at least 13 years, since that was 13 years after "The Cage".

I wonder. Was USS Enterprises new engines the new warp core, or the new nacelle design?

 

[Timo]

Larry Marvick supposedly designed the Enterprise's TOS engines, even though he's a young man in his death scene episode; it might be deduced that the TOS engines were the newest news at that time, then (even if the spaceframe were old and tired), and the TMP hardware would only follow some time later. Assuming that all starships in that size category get new engines more or less in synch, that is (and the apparent "fleetwide introduction" of the TMP style in the 2270s, as seen in the movies and TNG, would seem to support that theory).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

But the Connie refit isn't the same ship as the Miranda class. Two completely different engine rooms, even if the nacelles are the same.

The TMP engine room set was used as the Reliant's in a quick shot in TWOK (link), so how "different" one can't actually say except for guessing the height.

 

[Dukhat]

But the Connie refit isn't the same ship as the Miranda class. Two completely different engine rooms, even if the nacelles are the same.

The TMP engine room set was used as the Reliant's in a quick shot in TWOK (link), so how "different" one can't actually say except for guessing the height.

And the Ent-A used the Ent-D's engine room set in TUC, even though it obviously wasn't supposed to be the same design. I was referring more to the outward appearance of the ships.

 

[Emperor Norton]

My own personal take on it is this, which I carry with me in my head at all times and finally just committed to something where I could keep the info. (Please don't edit the wiki; it's mah baby).

http://classicstartrekuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Starfleet#Starship_Classes_of_Starfleet

 

[Push The Button]

My vote is for a pre-refit Miranda class ship, with round nacelles and the red racing stripes. I'm sort of disappointed that the TOS-R project didn't put one in someplace, maybe in Court Martial or The Ultimate Computer.