‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

[Locutus of Bored]

But then I remembered we're talking about Zack Snyder's neck-snapping, bystander-ignoring Superman, so who can say?

There's a valid criticism in the level of destruction in the film, though it's such a tired and tedious debate from every single thread that mentions the movie, so I won't debate it with you here.

But citing the neck snap and ignoring bystanders in the same sentence when he snapped Zod's neck specifically to save a family of bystanders seems like a contradictory criticism. Also, he warned people in Smallville to get indoors, saved multiple pilots and soldiers from being killed in Smallville, saved the C-17 from being destroyed by Zod in the scoutship, etc. so to say he was ignoring bystanders is not entirely accurate or fair.

 

[Theophilus]

A pissed off Superman probably won't hold back.

My first impulse is to say that Superman would always hold back when dealing with a normal human, because he has an inviolable moral code.

Speaking of dealing with a normal human, does Superman know it's Bruce Wayne? If he does, why is he so pissed? If he doesn't, would it be enough of a shock to see one of the richest men in the world in that suit for him to stay pissed?

 

[Captaindemotion]

Maybe the suit is lead-lined so Superman can't see who's in it? Assuming that he can't see through lead in this continuity and that Batman is aware of this, that is.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The glowing red eyes are awesome. Superman looks fucking furious.

it will not go anywhere with meaning when dealing with Batman.

 

[Christopher]

But citing the neck snap and ignoring bystanders in the same sentence when he snapped Zod's neck specifically to save a family of bystanders seems like a contradictory criticism.

It would be -- if Superman (or more accurately, Zack Snyder and David Goyer) hadn't completely ignored the millions of other bystanders and building occupants in the previous half-hour of totally gratuitous and tedious CGI destruction. It was a token acknowledgment that was made ludicrously inadequate by its context.

Also, he warned people in Smallville to get indoors

And then made virtually no effort to avoid smashing into the very buildings he'd just sent them into. Or, again, Snyder made no effort to have him avoid it. It's another token gesture that's completely negated by everything around it. Snyder cares more about gratuitous spectacle than about story or character logic, so I have no faith in his ability to portray Superman well.

 

[Theophilus]

Maybe the suit is lead-lined so Superman can't see who's in it? Assuming that he can't see through lead in this continuity and that Batman is aware of this, that is.

I'm assuming it's not. How would Batman know other than because he's the goddamn Batman? I guess it could get mentioned earlier in this movie and Batman finds out. A lead-lined armor suit wouldn't exactly be advantageous in a fight with a super fast, super strong, flying being. But now I'm talking about The Fight again.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

But citing the neck snap and ignoring bystanders in the same sentence when he snapped Zod's neck specifically to save a family of bystanders seems like a contradictory criticism.

It would be -- if Superman (or more accurately, Zack Snyder and David Goyer) hadn't completely ignored the millions of other bystanders and building occupants in the previous half-hour of totally gratuitous and tedious CGI destruction. It was a token acknowledgment that was made ludicrously inadequate by its context.

Also, he warned people in Smallville to get indoors

And then made virtually no effort to avoid smashing into the very buildings he'd just sent them into. Or, again, Snyder made no effort to have him avoid it. It's another token gesture that's completely negated by everything around it. Snyder cares more about gratuitous spectacle than about story or character logic, so I have no faith in his ability to portray Superman well.

Remember what Snyder said. The casualties of Zod's attack totaled 5,000. Even if you ignore that, Superman saved the entire planet of 7 billion people.

Also keep in mind Superman is fighting people as physically as powerful as he is. Superman managed to take the fight in to outer space with Zod (briefly) but it didn't matter because Zod pushed him right back in to Metropolis.





Add some fanart

 

[Locutus of Bored]

But citing the neck snap and ignoring bystanders in the same sentence when he snapped Zod's neck specifically to save a family of bystanders seems like a contradictory criticism.

It would be -- if Superman (or more accurately, Zack Snyder and David Goyer) hadn't completely ignored the millions of other bystanders and building occupants in the previous half-hour of totally gratuitous and tedious CGI destruction. It was a token acknowledgment that was made ludicrously inadequate by its context.

Also, he warned people in Smallville to get indoors

And then made virtually no effort to avoid smashing into the very buildings he'd just sent them into. Or, again, Snyder made no effort to have him avoid it. It's another token gesture that's completely negated by everything around it. Snyder cares more about gratuitous spectacle than about story or character logic, so I have no faith in his ability to portray Superman well.

He was on the opposite side of the planet destroying the world engine during the worst of the destruction in Metropolis in the previous half hour. Had he not stopped it billions of people would be dead rather than thousands. By the time he fought Zod there was some time where hopefully most of the buildings they crashed into were evacuated.

People act like Superman was drunkenly flying around destroying buildings on his own rather than being repeatedly thrown into them by an equally powerful being who kept bringing the fight back to the city when Superman tried to punch him out of the city (and he grabbed his cape and threw him back -- no capes!) and when Superman fought him into space he headed directly back to the city, taking a satellite with him. Zod was the one bent on destroying everything, so I don't get why Superman gets all the blame.

Dammit, I promised not to get sucked into this debate again. You win.

 

[Captaindemotion]

You know, I really liked the scene, included in the trailer, where Superman lifted the solider and put him down, then asked "Are you okay?" I really wish they'd included a few more little touches like that. I think it would've offset the destruction and havoc.

 

[the G-man]

Seeing the leaked footage from comic con and the promotional art of WW, etc., basically, this reinforces my theory that Zack Snyder is a potentially great Batman movie director, just not a great fit for Superman.

Grim and gritty Superman only works in small doses.

 

[Christopher]

Remember what Snyder said. The casualties of Zod's attack totaled 5,000.

He actually said that? What a load of BS. Nothing about that entire sequence made sense (buildings are actually designed not to collapse like houses of cards the moment something stresses them), and that allegation is just as nonsensical. It would take hours to evacuate a metropolitan area that size. More objective observers have estimated the likely death toll as being nearly 100 times what Snyder claims.

He was on the opposite side of the planet destroying the world engine during the worst of the destruction in Metropolis in the previous half hour.

And that's exactly my problem. Let's stop pretending we're talking about the choices made by characters who don't actually exist. What we're talking about here are the choices made by David Goyer and Zack Snyder. I'm not blaming Superman, I'm blaming them. I think it's a ludicrous choice to send your hero to literally the exact opposite side of the planet from where the danger is just so you can cram 20-plus minutes of tiresome, pointless destruction into your movie. Especially when it served absolutely no story purpose. You could've cut out the entire orgy of devastation and it wouldn't have changed anything about the story. It was purely superficial CGI indulgence and it went on so long that I nearly walked out of the theater in disgust because I don't like having empty noise blasted at me for twenty minutes straight. I don't care about what the in-story rationalizations were -- what bothers me are the priorities of the actually existing people who chose to shape the story in that manner.

 

[Kelthaz]

Why are their eyes glowing? Are they robots? Is HARDAC mass producing Superman/Batman robots? I can't get over how stupid this looks.

 

[Christopher]

Batman's eyes are presumably glowing because Snyder likes to recreate comics images verbatim, and Batman's eyes in the comics are blank white shapes.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

And that's exactly my problem. Let's stop pretending we're talking about the choices made by characters who don't actually exist. What we're talking about here are the choices made by David Goyer and Zack Snyder. I'm not blaming Superman, I'm blaming them. I think it's a ludicrous choice to send your hero to literally the exact opposite side of the planet from where the danger is just so you can cram 20-plus minutes of tiresome, pointless destruction into your movie. Especially when it served absolutely no story purpose. You could've cut out the entire orgy of devastation and it wouldn't have changed anything about the story. It was purely superficial CGI indulgence and it went on so long that I nearly walked out of the theater in disgust because I don't like having empty noise blasted at me for twenty minutes straight. I don't care about what the in-story rationalizations were -- what bothers me are the priorities of the actually existing people who chose to shape the story in that manner.

Thank you. I've been trying to make this point on other Superman threads. :-) and this one

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Batman's eyes are presumably glowing because Snyder likes to recreate comics images verbatim, and Batman's eyes in the comics are blank white shapes.

Or because he's wearing the heavy armor to fight Superman, and it has enhanced vision, which is of course something that's never been seen on Batman before that Snyder just made up. Don't trip over yourself in your rush to judgment.

 

[Green Lantern]

^ I never did like those eys on Bale, but it's slightly better with Affleck.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Yeah, it looked to me that there was some sort of glowing light or energy from the eyes, as oppose to the mere white-outs from the comic. The whiteness (almost a blue light though that could be down to the recording quality) wasn't apparent in the two promotional shots of Batman which have been released to date.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Let's stop pretending we're talking about the choices made by characters who don't actually exist. What we're talking about here are the choices made by David Goyer and Zack Snyder. I'm not blaming Superman, I'm blaming them.

Thanks for explaining how fiction works, Captain Condescension. It's hard to have a discussion of the merits of certain actions without discussing events in the film. It's not "pretending" anything.

I think it's a ludicrous choice to send your hero to literally the exact opposite side of the planet from where the danger is just so you can cram 20-plus minutes of tiresome, pointless destruction into your movie. Especially when it served absolutely no story purpose.

It served the purpose of giving the human characters that Superman is supposed to inspire to do greater things equal agency in saving the planet. Would you rather they have no role? I rather liked that Lois and Gaurdian and Dr. Hamilton got to play a significant role in saving the planet and weren't just helpless "bystanders" waiting around for Superman to save the day on his own.

The Phantom Drive mission could be accomplished by Superman's human allies using conventional aircraft, while only he was able to destroy the world engine on the antipodal point from Metropolis. That's why he took that mission. You may not like the explanation given, but it was fully explained in a reasonable manner within the context of the film.

You could've cut out the entire orgy of devastation and it wouldn't have changed anything about the story. It was purely superficial CGI indulgence and it went on so long that I nearly walked out of the theater in disgust because I don't like having empty noise blasted at me for twenty minutes straight. I don't care about what the in-story rationalizations were -- what bothers me are the priorities of the actually existing people who chose to shape the story in that manner.

That's fine. But when you misrepresent events to make your point, don't be surprised if people object.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Lord, just looking at that, I can hear him talking....Let's hope that Bale took his silly Batman voice with him....

I rather liked that Lois and Gaurdian and Dr. Hamilton got to play a significant role in saving the planet and weren't just helpless "bystanders" waiting around for Superman to save the day on his own.

Guardian? Did I miss something?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I rather liked that Lois and Gaurdian and Dr. Hamilton got to play a significant role in saving the planet and weren't just helpless "bystanders" waiting around for Superman to save the day on his own.

Guardian? Did I miss something?

Guardian was the name of the Air Force unit who were flying the plane.

Not the superhero Guardian. XD