Defiance Season 2 Discussion

[JD]

Yeah, there was lots of interesting stuff in tonight's episode.
I loved the looks on Alak and Stahma's faces when Datak walked into the room.
The "fiber optics" are part of the Kaziri. They showed them coming them coming out of Irisa's back after they put it in her in the finale.
The flashback/vision was pretty interesting. Did we already know that the Votans were planning on coming to Earth?
I don't remember much of the Votan backstory anymore, so it looks like I might to reread over some of the timeline/history stuff sometime.
I wonder what exactly Irisa was doing to the people she thought she killed?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

WOW! That was a great episode! And it's cranking up the quick plot turns and soap opera which is what I was hoping for. My only complaint was the extremely distracting and stupid sounding song at the end during all the final scenes drama. Really out of place and in your face, normally I'm fine with that kind of thing but this was a bad choice.

And.. it's a TENTACLE!!!

Or as I believe the new grandpa said "snod".

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The "fiber optics" are part of the Kaziri. They showed them coming them coming out of Irisa's back after they put it in her in the finale.

Who are the Kaziri again? I'm going to rewatch last season thanks to this ep.

I wonder what exactly Irisa was doing to the people she thought she killed?

Installing the fiber optics.

Clearly these are stealth zombies. Maybe Irisa isn't even real now.

I predict that at the finale of season 2 there will be a HUGE PULSE that will deactivate all the fiber optic folk. If this is a good show they will all be dead, if it is bad they will all be back to normal. Because Irisa's shocking killing of the uber innocent liberati is meaningless otherwise.

 

[Mister Fandango]

It wasn't Irisa who killed her, though. The AI clearly took over her mind for that particular kill. Ditto for the old Irathian guy who's name I can never remember.

I'm a little confused about the flashback she had on the ship. Clearly it was suggesting that it was the ship buried in the mines, and it was meant to be a forebearer to start the terraforming of Earth before the rest of the fleet arrived, with one of the Irisa's ancestors leading a rebellion to stop that from happening and thus resulting in the crash. The problem I had was the time table mentioned. She was saying that the rest of the fleet would arrive in 3,000 years, but also mentioned that we had, and I paraphrase, "only just begun crossing our own oceans." Wouldn't that be more like 400-500 years ago, max? I'm pretty sure we weren't crossing oceans 3,000 years ago.

I might have misheard that line though, the one about the oceans. 3,000 years makes a bit more sense for the wreck and why it wasn't recorded or remembered by anyone on Earth. It's that oceans line that's bothering me, though.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

No, that was the line.

I think the Polynesians were crossing oceans a lot earlier than that.

I just watched the finale of season 1 and Irisa looks exactly the same. So either some of us are remembering her from earlier episodes looking more alien or we are all delusional

I also realized what annoys me so much about Nolan's constant "my daughter, my daughter, my daughter". It's downright possessive. In the season 1 finale he's untying her from the table where she is restrained, nude and clearly an adult and he's crooning at her "that's my girl, that's my girl.." like she's a freaking dog. It was icky. I think it's a one note character point they need to stop reminding us of.

I'm happy it seems we will learn soon what happened to Kenya. Datak is excellent as far as acting, I like how ugly he is rather than being some dapper villain. He's very believable.

 

[The Wormhole]

Eh, I don't know, the "A plot" I guess you call it about Irisa and her imaginary friend really wasn't all that interesting. Yeah, I get it, the little girl is all powerful, she can overload the surveillance computers (but for some reason doesn't actually block out the camera from recording Irisa in the first place) can compel Irisa to do anything, and now can even cure fatal wounds. I can only assume that pretty soon we get some sort of rational explanation as to what's going in other than "some oogy-boogy Irathient god." The flashback scene to the two Iraths is somewhat interesting, but too little was revealed.

What the hell is the deal with Sukar, anyway? I thought he was killed last season, though in the finale his status was upgraded to coma, and now he's fine, just living a solitary life of a hermit in the woods, which is totally consistent with him being the leader of a biker gang last year.

The highlight of the episode is definitely Datak and Yewll's storyline, especially the awesome scene of Datak arriving back at his house pissed at his family. I'm looking forward to seeing how that plays out.

 

[Greg Cox]

What the hell is the deal with Sukar, anyway? I thought he was killed last season, though in the finale his status was upgraded to coma, and now he's fine, just living a solitary life of a hermit in the woods, which is totally consistent with him being the leader of a biker gang last year.

They explained that the rest of the tribe ostracized him after he came back from the dead and all, under kinda weird and unnatural circumstances. They thought he was undead or possessed or whatever the Irathian superstition is.

Basically, he creeped them out so nobody wanted to be around him anymore.

But, yeah, that final bath scene was really intense!

 

[JD]

Eh, I don't know, the "A plot" I guess you call it about Irisa and her imaginary friend really wasn't all that interesting. Yeah, I get it, the little girl is all powerful, she can overload the surveillance computers (but for some reason doesn't actually block out the camera from recording Irisa in the first place) can compel Irisa to do anything, and now can even cure fatal wounds. I can only assume that pretty soon we get some sort of rational explanation as to what's going in other than "some oogy-boogy Irathient god." The flashback scene to the two Iraths is somewhat interesting, but too little was revealed.

I know before I was a little more open minded to the "oogy-boogy Irathient god" stuff, but the tenticles made it pretty clear this is all some kind of AI program from the Kalavar.

Kelavar


The gold key



The silver key


The Kelavar, also known as the key, is a set of objects which works with the Kaziri.
Overview

At least two objects exist, one is known as the golden knot. (If I Ever Leave This World Alive)
History

Luke McCawley had the golden knot Kelavar in his possession, which he hid in his room. Rafe McCawley, suspicious of his son's affiliation with Ben Darris, searched Luke's room and found the key. Rafe later showed Quentin the key and the two went down into the mines and located where Luke found it. Luke continued to study the key and the cave drawings, drawing the attention of Nicolette Riordon. Rafe told Quentin to destroy the key but he refused. When Solomon Birch came to the McCawley Residence to take the key, Quentin fought him and manged to kill him. (Down in the Ground Where the Dead Men Go, A Well Respected Man, Brothers In Arms)

I got mixed up before, the Kalavar are the keys, the Kaziri is the ship which the Kalavar can access.

 

[Velocity]

Every week I think I'm going to drop this show because there is really no one that I like at all, but something happens that makes me want to see what happens next. Too bad for mom and son that dad caught them in the bath without weapons.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You can't imagine choking someone with a bar of soap?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Eh, I don't know, the "A plot" I guess you call it about Irisa and her imaginary friend really wasn't all that interesting. Yeah, I get it, the little girl is all powerful, she can overload the surveillance computers (but for some reason doesn't actually block out the camera from recording Irisa in the first place) can compel Irisa to do anything, and now can even cure fatal wounds. I can only assume that pretty soon we get some sort of rational explanation as to what's going in other than "some oogy-boogy Irathient god." The flashback scene to the two Iraths is somewhat interesting, but too little was revealed.

I know before I was a little more open minded to the "oogy-boogy Irathient god" stuff, but the tenticles made it pretty clear this is all some kind of AI program from the Kalavar. .

Yeah the young Irisa is just the user interface of the tech inside her. Though I don't think we will completely escape the supernatural element I'm pleased it's explainable with tech.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, I have figured out that Irisa's imaginary friend was part of some master computer in that ship beneath the mines, and the tentacles spreading to the people Irisa believed she killed are a believable extension of that. But that whole bit where Irisa shot herself and the little girl kept her alive even with a chunk blown out of her head? And then healed that wound completely in a matter of minutes? The Votans really dropped the ball when they let a ship with that kind of computer controlling it get away from them.

 

[Mister Fandango]

To be fair, it had 3,000 years of isolation to evolve, too.

I'm still confused about why they had to come to Earth in the first place. I know the Votanis star system was destroyed 5,000 years ago, but surely they had to have other worlds and star systems available to them. It's highly unlikely that so many different races would have evolved in the same system as there couldn't have been that many inhabitable worlds (Firefly be damned.) to begin with, let alone ones in which intelligent species would have evolved like that.

And, then, why Earth? Sure, it's fairly obvious that there's some genetic similarities between all the races (else there's no way there could be a Human-Castithan fetus like there is on the show), nevermind the physical similarities, but... it'd be nice if at least someone would ask one of those questions. Why Earth? Why are we genetically compatible? If there were enough inhabitable worlds for all these races, surely there had to be more out there, so why not choose one of them? etc.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

^ooo interesting!!

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Watched the pilot again last night, noticed how video game a lot of scenes were which seems to be an element that's been dropped. There was also much more interesting vegetation than we've seen in a long time. Jaime Murray's performance has really been honed, she is more stylized and deliberate in her movements now, less human and more alien geisha. The Tarr's are both much whiter now too and Datak seems to have aged 20 years since the pilot!

 

[Guy Gardener]

To be fair, it had 3,000 years of isolation to evolve, too.

I'm still confused about why they had to come to Earth in the first place. I know the Votanis star system was destroyed 5,000 years ago, but surely they had to have other worlds and star systems available to them. It's highly unlikely that so many different races would have evolved in the same system as there couldn't have been that many inhabitable worlds (Firefly be damned.) to begin with, let alone ones in which intelligent species would have evolved like that.

And, then, why Earth? Sure, it's fairly obvious that there's some genetic similarities between all the races (else there's no way there could be a Human-Castithan fetus like there is on the show), nevermind the physical similarities, but... it'd be nice if at least someone would ask one of those questions. Why Earth? Why are we genetically compatible? If there were enough inhabitable worlds for all these races, surely there had to be more out there, so why not choose one of them? etc.

Google, google...

The Arks traveled 5014 years to get to Earth. They left the Votanis system (yes, it's called that) in 3001BCE. They arrived at Earth in 2013CE. If they were traveling at half C (the speed of light), then any star within 2507 light years (ly) could have been their point of origin. Increase that to .95c and you get 4763.3ly. Current, actually used, human tech has reached speeds of about 0.05C (the Pluto Express probe's ION drive, and that speed was limited due to the fuel source being used up, not the theoretical top speeds; given an large enough fuel source an ion drive can actually reach just shy of C; 0.9999999C).

The nearest star to us IS part of a multiple star system. Alpha Centari A and B are close binary (at 4.37ly) with a tertiary (Proxima Centari at 4.24ly) in gravitational association with them. There is even a possible exoplanet in the Alpha Centari system. Using KNOWN HUMAN REAL LIFE TECH, it is theoretically possible to get to the Alpha Centari system in as little as 85 years. (http://www.universetoday.com/15403/how-long-would-it-take-to-travel-to-the-nearest-star/) (Unfortunately, some misguided politics and misguided environmentalism is stopping any experiments for proving this system works.)

Sirius is also a binary and it's only 8.6ly away.

There is a brown dwarf binary only 6.5ly way (WISE J104915.57-53190).

So, no. The writers of the lore actually used a time frame for the Votan migration which specifically avoids needing some FTL system.

How old is the Voltanis culture?

Secret factions could have sent a smaller Colony Earthward bound decades or centuries before the first push that sent the teraforming Arks that have already arrived, and the aforementioned main push which is probably a thousand times the size of the fleet of arks that arrived in 2013, currently on it's way who's arrival is stalled and staggered since they do not want to arrive until after the terraforming is complete and stable.

How did they determine that Earth had no sentient life?

When they selected Earth, were they scanning for technology, or was there some method of determining the difference between animal life and the potential for sentient life that they had in their bailiwick?

Because if they scanned Earth, and there was nothing on Earth 5000 years ago that should have been able to grow up potentially into a tool using, thinking creature, then this either proves, that Man is a bunch of Aliens that arrived on earth 5000 years ago, or God created Adam in the Garden of Eden 5 thousand years ago.



Oh.

Smaller ships with less cargo but more engine can move faster.

Smaller ships with a higher order of technology can also impel faster.

Battle Star Galactica taught me: The Fleet can only move as fast as it's slowest ship, so a smaller fleet "should" be able to move faster than a larger fleet.

The Aliens that became human beings might have been sent well after the Arks, maybe a thousand years later from Voltanis, with plans to be complete dicks about claiming the Earth first... Which cocked up after they forgot who they were and where they were from after they lost their technology, race-memory and recorded history.

The sinking of Atlantis?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

In the pilot we see the child Nolan playing in the park with his parents when the Voltan ships appear above them. Why weren't they detected when they entered the solar system? It looks like no one knew they were coming until the appeared.

I'm not getting how chill the humans are with the Voltans after I realized that it is only 33 years since the terraforming. Yeah there was a war and then peace.. was it worldwide or just america? I'm sure there are still human factions wanting to take back the earth from the alien invaders who destroyed so much. Everyone over the age of 40 is going to have clear memories of the time before the terraforming.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It was the terraforming that killed most of the humans on the planet.

A moderate estimate would put the fatalities into the billions if over the course of a week that every square inch of ground on the planet liquidized and then either got simultaneously or sequentially thrown a hundred metres into air or pushed a hundred metres towards the centre of the Earth.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

In the pilot we see the child Nolan playing in the park with his parents when the Voltan ships appear above them. Why weren't they detected when they entered the solar system? It looks like no one knew they were coming until the appeared.

Well according to the online stuff about the show, they knew they were coming and kept quiet about it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There's also a question about when the Voltan's woke up.

Did the fleet park in Earth Orbit on autopilot?

Even if a flight crew of 40 pilots and engineers woke up a year before they got to Earth, they still might not have had the diplomatic authority to answer any incoming calls from Earth if their communications rig was even designed to register backward human radio transmissions... God forbid there was a linguist in the flight crew that could figure out what was being said to them in English or Chinese. Hopefully the flight crew knew they were not high up enough on the totem to reply to any incoming calls.

Besides, the planet was supposed to be empty.

There was no need to have a team to smooth over all that First Contact crap at hand, so those buggers would have still have been sleeping exactly when they were most needed.