Just started watching for the first time

[MakeshiftPython]

Those elements are there, but not utilized the same way that those latter seasons would go about it. The Vorta are introduced, but we never see them again after "The Search" until Weyoun's appearance by S4. Once the Klingons are finally becoming major players that's when I feel the show takes on a new direction that truly shapes the following seasons. In a way that makes 1-3 the introductory seasons, setting up the world before action is taken.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Those elements are there, but not utilized the same way that those latter seasons would go about it.

Yes, many of us would call that laying the foundations.

Once the Klingons are finally becoming major players that's when I feel the show takes on a new direction that truly shapes the following seasons. In a way that makes 1-3 the introductory seasons, setting up the world before action is taken.

Then you must appreciate that the writers paced the Dominion story appropriately to allow the Klingons to become a major element thereof, no?

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I just started watching DS9 on Netflix. I really wanted to post to see what other people thought of the series. The only other season of Star Trek I've seen start to finish was TNG which was very recently. What does everyone think of DS9? When do you think this show gets good, or was it always good? Right now, I sort of don't like DS9... It had a horrible first episode and Major Kira (sp?) ... omg I hate Major Kira. She flies off the handle, disobeys orders, asks for favors that could potentially jeopardize treaties or good relations among races... don't get me started on episode 15. Then episode 19 where she is like "HE'S THE ENEMY RAWR!" and Sisko is like "you sound very impartial, I'll go ahead and let you lead the investigation PFFFFFT!" srsly Sisko? http://www.trekbbs.com/images/smilies/scream.gif

lol...I remember writing a fan letter to Paramount asking why Kira was such a mouthy hot-head to Sisko. I complained that Picard never had to deal with mouthy hot-heads....why should the DS9 commander? (Even if Picard did, he'd usually talk them to death where they would somehow see the error of their ways).

With that said, Kira does become a lot likable in later seasons, and Bashir gets a more mature change later in the show as well.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Nope, it's definitely 38%

47% I'd say.

Once the Klingons are finally becoming major players that's when I feel the show takes on a new direction that truly shapes the following seasons. In a way that makes 1-3 the introductory seasons, setting up the world before action is taken.

I'm the opposite, I think DS9 lost 'something' when the Klingons showed up. They got too many episodes after that as well.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Those elements are there, but not utilized the same way that those latter seasons would go about it.

Yes, many of us would call that laying the foundations.

Once the Klingons are finally becoming major players that's when I feel the show takes on a new direction that truly shapes the following seasons. In a way that makes 1-3 the introductory seasons, setting up the world before action is taken.

Then you must appreciate that the writers paced the Dominion story appropriately to allow the Klingons to become a major element thereof, no?

I do appreciate how they keep the Dominion in the background even after introducing them with a bang. I think that was the right choice, just to show how their mere presence was really unsettling the powers of the AQ. They weren't sending troops through the wormhole yet, but all the families left DS9 because of what happened in that S2 finale.

 

[GalaxyX]

Nana Visitor is one of the worst actresses in Star Trek. I'm sorry guys, but she sucked.

Demonstrably not true:

• Terry Farrell was persistently out-acted by other people playing her part: Rene Auberjonois and John Glover were both better Daxs.
• Terry Farrell's poor acting contributed to two of Trek's worst episodes, most notably Meridian, in which she failed to create chemistry with her co-star and did some silly writhing at the end.
• The writers and producers had so little confidence in her acting that when it was revealed that the Dax symbiot was a murderer, they thought it better to keep the character asleep.

Nana Visitor wasn't even the worst actress on DS9. You might dislike the character's personality, but Visitor portrayed the character as conceived, and she gave the writers room to play with and develop it in later seasons. Terry Farrell contributed no more than a pretty face until Worf came along.

LOL!!

I think I ignore Terry Farrell because she was nothing more than a cardboard cutout most of the time. Her episodes are some of the worst ones in the series.

I have no love for Kira though. If she truly acted the way she was written, then that was some really horrible writing for that character.

Case in point: She goes off to fight Cardassians, comes back and her father is dead. I expected to see:

A. Sadness. Have her shed a tear over her deceased father or something.

B. Anger. True anger, like you can see the rage in the character's eyes, their face turns red, you see eyelids shaking from the emotional turmoil.

What I saw: She got up, claiming she wants revenge against the Cardassians with very little actual emotion of any sort visible in her face, basically reading the lines on her script, and storms off to get her "revenge".

Commander Data showed more emotion than she did sometimes. Well, except for Nana's "12 year old girl throws a tantrum here and there" acting style and occasional smile.

 

[dub]

I think DS9 lost 'something' when the Klingons showed up. They got too many episodes after that as well.

I'm with you on that to a degree, at least at first. But after a while the Klingons came into the fold of the show and made the universe within DS9 (if that makes any sense) seem even bigger. I loved Worf on DS9 and the presence of the Klingons certainly helped his character. The Klingon episodes were mostly not among my favorites, but I appreciated the variety. And in the last episodes of the series I really appreciated the Klingons' presence more.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Nana Visitor is one of the worst actresses in Star Trek. I'm sorry guys, but she sucked.

Demonstrably not true:

• Terry Farrell was persistently out-acted by other people playing her part: Rene Auberjonois and John Glover were both better Daxs.
• Terry Farrell's poor acting contributed to two of Trek's worst episodes, most notably Meridian, in which she failed to create chemistry with her co-star and did some silly writhing at the end.
• The writers and producers had so little confidence in her acting that when it was revealed that the Dax symbiot was a murderer, they thought it better to keep the character asleep.

Nana Visitor wasn't even the worst actress on DS9. You might dislike the character's personality, but Visitor portrayed the character as conceived, and she gave the writers room to play with and develop it in later seasons. Terry Farrell contributed no more than a pretty face until Worf came along.

LOL!!

I think I ignore Terry Farrell because she was nothing more than a cardboard cutout most of the time. Her episodes are some of the worst ones in the series.

I have no love for Kira though. If she truly acted the way she was written, then that was some really horrible writing for that character.

Case in point: She goes off to fight Cardassians, comes back and her father is dead. I expected to see:

A. Sadness. Have her shed a tear over her deceased father or something.

B. Anger. True anger, like you can see the rage in the character's eyes, their face turns red, you see eyelids shaking from the emotional turmoil.

What I saw: She got up, claiming she wants revenge against the Cardassians with very little actual emotion of any sort visible in her face, basically reading the lines on her script, and storms off to get her "revenge".

Commander Data showed more emotion than she did sometimes. Well, except for Nana's "12 year old girl throws a tantrum here and there" acting style and occasional smile.

I loved Jadzia...(as a character, that is). It was a bit jarring how they changed her from a mysterious character, to a character who is outgoing, vibrant and suddenly interested in Klingon culture...

[SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO ARE WATCHING THE SERIES FOR THE FIRST TIME]
It was a bit jarring how Worf doesn't 'remember the times' with Jadzia when he leaves DS9 in the final episode. It's so obvious that there was some contract thingy going on, but - come on - the character was there for six seasons and the love of his life!
[/END OF SPOILER]

Not too mention, Jadzia didn't look too bad in the classic TOS outfit!

 

[Bad Thoughts]

^Terry Farrell was magnificent, and after Nichelle Nichols, she filled out the uniform best. And that episode was among the better examples of her acting. Of course, it was comedy, and her Trilliness had been reduced to humorous asides.

 

[EnsignRedshirt]

If I had to choose, Deep Space 9 would be the one Trek series I wish I could watch all over again for the first time.

 

[dub]

If I had to choose, Deep Space 9 would be the one Trek series I wish I could watch all over again for the first time.

That's an interesting point that I've never thought of before. My one disappointment after seeing the finale was that on rewatches none of it will truly be new again. There was something magical about this series as I watched it.

Early in the first season after the episode "Progress" faded to black at a somewhat unresolved moment with no ship flashing away at the end - just Kira, Mullibok and a house in flames - I said to myself (and I thin out loud), "this is a great show." When most other shows would have dealt with what happened to that old man and show Kira reflecting on what happened when she got back to the station, this episode ended in a unresolved way without tying up all of the bows so nicely. To me, that was refreshing. I knew I was going to stick with this series. And at some point I realized I was watching something special.

As the series ended, even as I approached the final episodes, I was wishing I could unsee the whole thing so I could watch it again for the first time. And I was jealous of my wife who had agreed to watch it with me for the first time as I rewatched it. I don't recall ever feeling that with other tv series, certainly not with other Trek series.

 

[GalaxyX]

If I had to choose, Deep Space 9 would be the one Trek series I wish I could watch all over again for the first time.

That's an interesting point that I've never thought of before. My one disappointment after seeing the finale was that on rewatches none of it will truly be new again. There was something magical about this series as I watched it.

Early in the first season after the episode "Progress" faded to black at a somewhat unresolved moment with no ship flashing away at the end - just Kira, Mullibok and a house in flames - I said to myself (and I thin out loud), "this is a great show." When most other shows would have dealt with what happened to that old man and show Kira reflecting on what happened when she got back to the station, this episode ended in a unresolved way without tying up all of the bows so nicely. To me, that was refreshing. I knew I was going to stick with this series. And at some point I realized I was watching something special.

As the series ended, even as I approached the final episodes, I was wishing I could unsee the whole thing so I could watch it again for the first time. And I was jealous of my wife who had agreed to watch it with me for the first time as I rewatched it. I don't recall ever feeling that with other tv series, certainly not with other Trek series.

I got that feeling with 2 shows: Roswell, and House.

DS9 was decent, but from my point of view, it had the huge advantage of being serialized, with a long running arc.

Even so, it could have been so much better if the writers had tightened certain plot holes and general deficiencies on the series. And as I've said before, sometimes the acting could have been better (not just with Kira, but others, like Jadzia, Sisko, Bashir, etc).

I haven't got an inkling to rewatch it yet, partly because there aren't any characters identifiable to me. Quark is great, but works mostly as comic relief. Odo is great when he's not being a big pussy, etc etc.

 

[trekshark]

on my last re-watch of the whole series I liked season 1 better than I had remembered liking it but it still takes about 2 seasons to get really good but that's often to be expected with a show and is why I hate it when fox cancels new sci-fi after less than a season

 

[mythme]

I find it odd that people often say that DS9 "got good" in the third season, when I felt it was more or less in the same league as the second season. Still good, but it's not like it suddenly stepped up to a new level. They do get the Defiant introduced, but I don't think it's such a radical change beyond that and we don't even get much of the Dominion. It still feels very much like early DS9 with the heavier emphasis on Bajor's recovery. For me, where the show really steps up is in the fourth season with "The Way of the Warrior" and in a sense that is a reboot of the show because of the new emphasis on war and of course Worf is added bringing a new dynamic to the cast.

^By the end of season 2, there was already: Dukat, Garak, Winn, the Jem'hadar, the Dominion, the Vorta, the Obsidian Order, the Cardassian dissident movement, Odo's growing presence, Kira's growing subtlety, etc. The quality could vary from episode to episode, but many of the elements that made the latter seasons distinctive were already in place.

I think the turning point was the mid-point of season 3. Had to get Bariel out of the way which made Winn's treachery come into full focus. The Maquis 2-parter was (for me) the true carry-over from TNG which touched on the DMZ but this really brought shared Trek universe together. (It should have been the same for Voyager too, but they really dropped the ball on the Maquis). Mid-third season gave us the Dominion's true intentions and Odo's conflict with them. It even made Nog a likeable character.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I think the turning point was the mid-point of season 3. Had to get Bariel out of the way which made Winn's treachery come into full focus. The Maquis 2-parter was (for me) the true carry-over from TNG which touched on the DMZ but this really brought shared Trek universe together. (It should have been the same for Voyager too, but they really dropped the ball on the Maquis). Mid-third season gave us the Dominion's true intentions and Odo's conflict with them. It even made Nog a likeable character.

I'm not arguing that there was no upswing in quality after season 2, just that what makes it distinct is it's relationship to foundations that were already laid. Ignoring character growth arcs of the marquee players, there were as many as 20 episodes from season 3 that used characters and conflicts established in seasons 1 and 2. TNG season 3, which is considered highly successful, had 7 such episodes. Voyager season 3, largely directionless without the reintroduction of the Borg, had 4 such episodes. My point is that many distinctive elements were already in play by the time season 3 comes around.

 

[Lt. LaForge]

...Jadzia... It was a bit jarring how they changed her from a mysterious character, to a character who is outgoing, vibrant and suddenly interested in Klingon culture...

I call her the every-woman. It was quite annoying.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

...Jadzia... It was a bit jarring how they changed her from a mysterious character, to a character who is outgoing, vibrant and suddenly interested in Klingon culture...

I call her the every-woman. It was quite annoying.

In the beginning, the PTB had a hard time getting a handle on the characters--they say as much on DVD featurettes. Sisko was one, until they realised that he was a "builder of things". Dax was another, they started off wanting to make her a wise old sage in the body of a young woman, a sort of Spock-esque character, until they realised that she was better as the person who was up for going off an having an adventure.

Dax is a character who I like (both incarnations for different reasons), whose change in personality as Jadzia makes sense as she became more comfortable with being Joined and embraced all that it meant. She is also the only "sexy sciency" character Trek has gotten right, she is a very attractive woman who, thanks to being in standard uniform 95% of the time, can be taken seriously as a scientist and a character without relying on the boob-factor.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I actually think DS9 comes off better the second time around, when you already get the show.

 

[Garren]

lol...I remember writing a fan letter to Paramount asking why Kira was such a mouthy hot-head to Sisko. I complained that Picard never had to deal with mouthy hot-heads....why should the DS9 commander? (Even if Picard did, he'd usually talk them to death where they would somehow see the error of their ways).

With that said, Kira does become a lot likable in later seasons, and Bashir gets a more mature change later in the show as well.

I'm glad to hear that Bashir matures later on. Out of the gate he was very juvenile and flirtatious like a horny teenager. He was written as though he were part of someone's fan fiction. He had some inspiring moments but early on, he was definitely not the sort I expected.

Some have made great points in that TNG has a different perspective and I've read that the utopian vision was shifted to a grittier one in the seasons after Gene Roddenberry's death.

What's hurting my enjoyment of DS9, is that I'm still in love with TNG and Picard, and Roddenberry's vision. I wonder how Captain Picard would have dealt with the selfish arrogance that Sisko's crew displays. With each episode, a member of Sisko's senior staff is making a personal or emotional demand. Sisko responds as though he is trying to negotiate instead of taking firm command of the situation. The crew feels undisciplined and while their motives will explain why, I don't feel like it's excused.

I would find it more interesting if there were more consequences for their actions. Instead, their behaviors are forgotten and nullified by the credit roll, causing me to wonder why this team should be allowed to handle such a monumental task - that is, acting as gatekeepers to the worm holes; playing diplomats to the cardassians and bajorans; making first contact with many new races from the Beta Quadrant; and initiating first confrontation with the Dominion.

I'm in season 3 (somehow) and some episodes have surprised me so far. I'm still going because TNG left me wanting more from this universe and I don't want to let go just yet.

 

[MacLeod]

To be fair, Aside from Sisko, in S1-3 the only other regulars which are in Starfleet are O'Brien, Bashier and Dax.

And can we really expect paradise on a world which had been under subjucation for decades?