Classic Mission: Impossible and 1988 Sequel Series...

[Christopher]

Which is why I said that they should have changed the focus to the busting of an evil organization similar to SPECTRE, HYDRA, AIM, or THRUSH; weather it's set domestically or in a foreign nation really doesn't matter, so long as it's not the stupid and implausible idea of an organization like the IMF going against the mob when the FBI was already doing the same thing in real life...

Like I said, spy stuff was losing popularity at the time, but crime dramas were perennially popular.

Besides, Mission: Impossible was never really an espionage/political show at heart; it was a heist show. It was a show about con artists pulling elaborately orchestrated scams and thefts, with the political or security goals behind the mission usually being little more than a McGuffin. So it didn't really matter to the format of the show whether the cases were espionage-related or mob-related. That's why they usually did several organized-crime capers in each of the first five seasons.

Or, they could have just ended the show.

Except TV shows are not produced on a whim. They are marketable commodities produced by businesses in order to make a profit. You don't just stop making a product as long as a market still exists for it. Unprofitable shows get cancelled and profitable ones get kept in production, just like any other commodity. Creative purity is usually a secondary concern.

AFAIK, the wrong TV show continued at Desilu/Paramount when it shouldn't have and the right show was ended too soon; I'll leave you to guess what show I mean.

Mannix?

 

[Forbin]

Mannix could have gone on forever, like 5-0. When Connors got too old, Mannix could have handed the agency off to Peggy's son Toby.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Mannix?

Star Trek-TOS. And I'm sorry again, Chris, but sometimes you have to know when to end a show before it's ended for you, as Jerry Seinfeld knew when he ended Seinfeld and as a now defunct website Jump The Shark would have also said; to be frank, Mission: Impossible did 'jump the shark' when they started doing these episodes. But as many people would say, that's just me, and we'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[Forbin]

Mannix?

Star Trek-TOS. And I'm sorry again, Chris, but sometimes you have to know when to end a show before it's ended for you, as Jerry Seinfeld knew when he ended Seinfeld and as a now defunct website Jump The Shark would have also said; to be frank, Mission: Impossible did 'jump the shark' when they started doing these episodes. But as many people would say, that's just me, and we'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.

5-0 was also pretty weak in its last season. Lord was pretty much the only one left, with a bunch of low-octane 70s actors tagging along. A shadow of its former glory.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Yeah, that final season of Five-O is downright painful to watch, although it had been getting progressively more tired over the preceding seasons anyway.

 

[Christopher]

And I'm sorry again, Chris, but sometimes you have to know when to end a show before it's ended for you, as Jerry Seinfeld knew when he ended Seinfeld and as a now defunct website Jump The Shark would have also said; to be frank, Mission: Impossible did 'jump the shark' when they started doing these episodes. But as many people would say, that's just me, and we'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.

I'm not saying I agree with their decisions. I'm describing their reasons, not endorsing them. In an ideal world where TV could be produced for free and money were not a consideration, it certainly would've been preferable if they'd kept the spy angle or just ended the show altogether. But I understand the realities of television that led them to do otherwise, even though it wasn't the best choice creatively.

And there were still some pretty good episodes in seasons 6 and 7 (season 7's "The Question" is one of the best of the entire series), though they were weak seasons overall (the only season I liked less was the second one).

 

[Joel_Kirk]

You have to consider it in the context of the times. As the Vietnam War was starting to become unpopular, public faith in the government was eroding and stories about American spies committing crimes and dirty tricks against foreign governments were losing their popularity. Changing them to a crimebusting organization was less controversial.

Also -- perhaps more importantly -- it was a matter of budget. The longer a show stays on the air, the more its budget has to be cut in order to keep on the air, both because the cast's and crew's salaries go up every season and because of viewer attrition. (Note that the main cast in the last two seasons was only four people instead of five, because they couldn't afford five anymore.) It was cheaper to tell stories set entirely in America than it was to fake foreign locations on a regular basis.

Which is why I said that they should have changed the focus to the busting of an evil organization similar to SPECTRE, HYDRA, AIM, or THRUSH; weather it's set domestically or in a foreign nation really doesn't matter, so long as it's not the stupid and implausible idea of an organization like the IMF going against the mob when the FBI was already doing the same thing in real life and without gimmicks like changing the present into the past in order to solve a cold case or going after a common convict with a nerve gas canister. Or, they could have just ended the show.

AFAIK, the wrong TV show continued at Desilu/Paramount when it shouldn't have and the right show was ended too soon; I'll leave you to guess what show I mean.

There were some good episodes in the later seasons. Of course, the ones I tend to rewatch in the 7th season are the Barbara Anderson episodes. And aside from the Anderson episodes, I do like the fact that Barney stepped up as more of a leader when Phelps wasn't present.

I found the reason for giving the IMF missions against the mob or other criminals interesting. It was because 'conventional law enforcement agencies' were unable to handle such individuals. (In reality, the times were changing to crime dramas - Kojak, Streets of San Francisco, Starsky and Hutch - and away from the James Bond-inspired spy shows). Which is a bit ironic since The New Avengers was produced in the 70s, but that wouldn't be as successful as the original show from the 60s.

I can go along with the idea of creating an organization that the IMF would have to go up against every now and then. The show created a lot of fictional countries and regimes during it's early seasons, so a SPECTRE-like organization wouldn't be too off for the show.

Actually, in one episode, the IMF created a fictional terrorist organization to dupe a villain portrayed by Dean Stockwell.

I wouldn't have minded Linda Day George and Leslie Ann Warren in red Trek uniforms!

Nor would I.

 

[Christopher]

I do like the fact that Barney stepped up as more of a leader when Phelps wasn't present.

It seems to run in the family. I'm noticing in the revival series that Grant Collier often seems to be Jim's second-in-command, or at least the first one Jim briefs on the mission, since there are a lot of apartment scenes where the two of them are explaining the mission to the other three. (The revival generally didn't quite understand the original approach to the apartment scenes, which was to have the team already largely aware of the mission and just reviewing their plan and demonstrating gadgets, with the audience left in the dark about just how these pieces would come into play. Instead, most of its apartment scenes were just Jim filling in the rest of the team on the mission for the first time, but with Grant usually already in the loop and sharing in the exposition.) I suspect it's partly because of Phil Morris's cachet as the son of an original cast member -- and maybe a longtime relationship with Peter Graves, since his father worked with Graves for so many years -- and partly because Morris was just such a strong actor. As the series went on, they increasingly moved Morris out of Barney's supporting tech-expert role and more into the central roleplaying and action, since he was pretty much the breakout star of the series.

I found the reason for giving the IMF missions against the mob or other criminals interesting. It was because 'conventional law enforcement agencies' were unable to handle such individuals.

You do have to wonder about the legality of the IMF operating on US soil, though, given that the CIA can't.

I can go along with the idea of creating an organization that the IMF would have to go up against every now and then. The show created a lot of fictional countries and regimes during it's early seasons, so a SPECTRE-like organization wouldn't be too off for the show.

When watching the original series, I sometimes wished they'd encounter a rival team of spies using their own methods against them. We did get that a couple of times: first in season 3's "The Bunker," where they faced a villain who was a master of disguise like Rollin Hand, and then more fully in season 5's "My Friend, My Enemy," where Paris was abducted and brainwashed by a team of villains who were effectively counterparts to the IMF team -- a master planner, a technical expert, a femme fatale, and the muscle (with the brainwashed Paris effectively serving as his own counterpart). But we never got any recurring villains in the show, though there were a couple who would've been nice to see again.

Actually, in one episode, the IMF created a fictional terrorist organization to dupe a villain portrayed by Dean Stockwell.

Ah, yes, "The Pendulum" in season 7.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I do like the fact that Barney stepped up as more of a leader when Phelps wasn't present.

It seems to run in the family. I'm noticing in the revival series that Grant Collier often seems to be Jim's second-in-command, or at least the first one Jim briefs on the mission, since there are a lot of apartment scenes where the two of them are explaining the mission to the other three. (The revival generally didn't quite understand the original approach to the apartment scenes, which was to have the team already largely aware of the mission and just reviewing their plan and demonstrating gadgets, with the audience left in the dark about just how these pieces would come into play. Instead, most of its apartment scenes were just Jim filling in the rest of the team on the mission for the first time, but with Grant usually already in the loop and sharing in the exposition.) I suspect it's partly because of Phil Morris's cachet as the son of an original cast member -- and maybe a longtime relationship with Peter Graves, since his father worked with Graves for so many years -- and partly because Morris was just such a strong actor. As the series went on, they increasingly moved Morris out of Barney's supporting tech-expert role and more into the central roleplaying and action, since he was pretty much the breakout star of the series.

I found the reason for giving the IMF missions against the mob or other criminals interesting. It was because 'conventional law enforcement agencies' were unable to handle such individuals.

You do have to wonder about the legality of the IMF operating on US soil, though, given that the CIA can't.

I can go along with the idea of creating an organization that the IMF would have to go up against every now and then. The show created a lot of fictional countries and regimes during it's early seasons, so a SPECTRE-like organization wouldn't be too off for the show.

When watching the original series, I sometimes wished they'd encounter a rival team of spies using their own methods against them. We did get that a couple of times: first in season 3's "The Bunker," where they faced a villain who was a master of disguise like Rollin Hand, and then more fully in season 5's "My Friend, My Enemy," where Paris was abducted and brainwashed by a team of villains who were effectively counterparts to the IMF team -- a master planner, a technical expert, a femme fatale, and the muscle (with the brainwashed Paris effectively serving as his own counterpart). But we never got any recurring villains in the show, though there were a couple who would've been nice to see again.

Actually, in one episode, the IMF created a fictional terrorist organization to dupe a villain portrayed by Dean Stockwell.

Ah, yes, "The Pendulum" in season 7.

"The Bunker" was a pretty good episode (or set of episodes). I found the ending pretty intense.

 

[diankra]

You do have to wonder about the legality of the IMF operating on US soil, though, given that the CIA can't.

That's not a massive problem, surely, given that the series's basic mission statement (sorry) is that the IMF do the stuff the CIA(/FBI) can't do, perhaps for legal reasons, with the understanding that if it goes wrong the government won't back them up.

 

[Christopher]

True, it's implied -- at least to begin with -- that the IMF's missions are deniable and ultra-sensitive because they're illegal, because these guys are committing crimes and thefts and scams (often even setting people up to be murdered) in the name of global or national security. But that's hard to reconcile with the 6th and 7th seasons, in which the IMF was explicitly repositioned as a domestic crimefighting agency that routinely cooperated with the legal authorities.

 

[inflatabledalek]

After taking a break to watch other things I've now resumed my watching of the show and and now hurtling towards the end of the first season.

I think my favourite episode to date has been the one with Pat Hingle, for a 60's American show that has, up to this point, used communists almost exclusively as the default foreign villains it was genuinely surprising to see an episode that was basically taking the extremes of McCarthyism to task.

I know this is a stock crap nostalgic comic style comment, but I do wonder about those messages Briggs gets at the start of every episode. Presumably he has to go on the goose chase for the sake of plausible deniabilty, ensuing that no one can connect him directly to the IMF. But presumably, someone has to give him instructions on how to find the tape... so why not just bring the tape themselves? It would probably involve less people as well, some of these set ups involve taking over whole buildings and planting staff for the afternoon.

Plus, if he really wants to avoid any links with the organisation, that nice black folder embossed with "Impossible Mission Force" he has in his apartment is a bit of a giveaway.

 

[Christopher]

Plus, if he really wants to avoid any links with the organisation, that nice black folder embossed with "Impossible Mission Force" he has in his apartment is a bit of a giveaway.

The impression I got from the earliest episodes was that there was no organization -- that the IMF was just Dan Briggs running missions out of his apartment with the aid of various civilian volunteers he recruited for missions too sensitive for the government to have any documented link with. And the only people in the government who knew about his operations were "the Secretary" and whoever it was that narrated the tape briefings.

Although that didn't last long, since the show eventually portrayed the IMF having the cooperation of various federal and local agencies. The revival series hinted at a larger IMF establishment including research labs and an extensive computer archive, and showed that there were IMF agents other than those on Jim Phelps's team. And of course the movies built the IMF up into a larger intelligence agency that was administered from CIA headquarters in Langley.

 

[Marc]

I know this is a stock crap nostalgic comic style comment, but I do wonder about those messages Briggs gets at the start of every episode. Presumably he has to go on the goose chase for the sake of plausible deniabilty, ensuing that no one can connect him directly to the IMF. But presumably, someone has to give him instructions on how to find the tape... so why not just bring the tape themselves? It would probably involve less people as well, some of these set ups involve taking over whole buildings and planting staff for the afternoon.

Not really - they're pretty much stuff straight out of spy novels - dead drops, brush pasts, coded phrases etc.

On the subject of those "briefings" I read some comments from Peter Graves on them once. The story goes that they would film whole pile of those scenes at the start of each season and during the production they'd decided which one to use with a given episode and overlay the audio and insert appropriate clips (such as the a picture of the baddie of the week).

 

[Christopher]

Yes, and sometimes they'd reuse the film from one of the tape-drop scenes in more than one episode -- either twice in a season or across consecutive seasons.

 

[Grant]

First time on this thread and I must say that really enjoyed seasons 1-3 which I borrowed from my library. I had read that the later seasons went away from the espionage aspect and more organized crime.

I really hated the loss of Landau and gave up watching the show early in season 4.
Really no interest at all in seeing them fight crime.

Also really hated seeing Nimoy go from one of the classic TV characters of all time to a cypher "master of disguise"

 

[Christopher]

I had read that the later seasons went away from the espionage aspect and more organized crime.

I really hated the loss of Landau and gave up watching the show early in season 4.
Really no interest at all in seeing them fight crime.

Actually the shift to a near-total focus on organized crime doesn't happen until season 6. And season 5 is the best in the entire series, since it frequently breaks away from the formula and challenges or deconstructs it, and even its formulaic episodes are done with a particular flair. It also makes more effort to develop the characters than the show had done since the early first season. Jim, Paris, and Barney all get Very Special Episodes focusing on their personal lives and histories. (So Paris got to be less of a cipher in season 5 than he was in season 4. We saw a fair amount of him and the others out of character, and Nimoy established a casual, laid-back, slang-speaking persona for Paris that seems to have been a deliberate contrast to Spock.)

Really, though, it never mattered much whether the bad guys were foreign agents or domestic criminals. M:I was really a heist/caper show, and the intelligence objectives were frequently just flimsy McGuffins for the caper of the week. (Something the third movie played with when it didn't even bother to define what the "Rabbit's Foot" McGuffin was.) And since the overseas and domestic episodes were shot on the same sets and backlots, often the only real difference was in whether the guest stars spoke in cheesy foreign accents or not.

 

[diankra]

Well, Conan Doyle reused some of the 'Let's chat over breakfast before the post gives us a hint of a case' scenes in his Holmes stories (though I think only in the book mash-ups).

 

[inflatabledalek]

Finished season 1, I did feel sorry for Steven Hill by the end, even if the side-lining of the character was mostly down to his own behaviour the whittling away of the size of his role was very odd to watch. It was fun watching the guest agents who were obviously filling in for scenes originally written for him (Richard Anderson for example).

The episode where he wears a mask of someone else for everything except the top and tail was almost brilliantly post modern on that side of things. Especially the slightly forced excuse as to why Landau couldn't do it.

Two episodes into season 2, and Peter Graves is already much better. He's walking a fine line between playing the ludicrous situations completely straight yet at the same time just bringing that hint of self awareness that makes it much more fun.

I'm mildly surprised (assuming the DVD's are in broadcast order) they didn't kick off with a strong Jim episode to sell the new lead. He had some nice bits in The Widow, but it was more a Mr. and Mrs. Landau episode. I know the show will become famous for the interchangeability of its main cast, but considering this is the first time they've done it you think there would have been a big push about getting the audience on side.

Trek felt like a stronger episode for him, and it was mildly amusing in an episode with that title to get the Star Trek Rock; the fort from Arena and Mark Leonard all together on screen.

 

[Davros]

I found the recent show Leverage had strong similarities to the old Mission Impossible show.