DS9 on blu ray?

[SoM]

Isn't the judder partially caused by in essence duplicating frames in order to get the 30fps, whilst PAL just runs the film 4% faster at 25fps

Short answer: Yes.

Slightly longer answer: It's repeating fields (interlaced half-frames) that causes the judder when watching in NTSC/480i, rather than full frames - technically, NTSC is (was) 59.997 fields per second, rather than 30 frames per second. And since the shows were mastered in NTSC, they had to strip the repeated fields out rather than just run the film faster (early UK showings of TNG were "biked" over and converted directly, with all the downsides to both PAL and NTSC baked in, while later showings did the "DEFT" speed-up conversion. And some effects were filmed at 30fps and couldn't be DEFT-converted). But still, the gist of it is "yes"

 

[Robert Comsol]

Not usually - the NTSC-PAL conversion they did sped it up (by 4%), but removed the juddering artifacts of playing a 24p signal at 30 frames/second. There might be some judder on stuff shot at 30p, but that's the minority of the footage.

I just remember vividly the "PAL judder" in "Defiant" in the scene where the Galor class ships move in to protect her. IIRC, the Defiant makes a swing turn to seek cover and this was one of the worst judders I've ever seen (making me aware of the issue).

Good to know that DS9 on Blu-ray will put this and other irritations to a permanent rest.

Bob

 

[GalaxyX]

As it is right now, it's the exact same scenes, frame by frame, but "HD"

What did you expect from a remaster?

I didn't expect anything. I hoped that they would use the opportunity to feed a little more dynamics into a show that was pretty static looking, mostly due to the budget.

They knew this with the TOS remaster. They wisely chucked out all the old 60's FX and added more fluid and dynamic CGI scenes where they could.

I wish they would have taken the same attitude with TNG.

 

[RunawayStarShip]

As it is right now, it's the exact same scenes, frame by frame, but "HD"

What did you expect from a remaster?

I didn't expect anything. I hoped that they would use the opportunity to feed a little more dynamics into a show that was pretty static looking, mostly due to the budget.

They knew this with the TOS remaster. They wisely chucked out all the old 60's FX and added more fluid and dynamic CGI scenes where they could.

I wish they would have taken the same attitude with TNG.

The problem with "chucking out" previous work is that the remasters are intended as future-proofing. It kind of negates the work of the original artists if it's completely overwritten. (Thankfully, the remastered TOS Blu-rays have both versions.) Plus, I doubt that there's enough budget for both a faithful recreation and a "cooler" version moving forward.

Besides, does new CGI really make that big of a difference most of the time? For example, would "Code of Honor" be any better if the Enterprise fired its torpedoes at the planet while swooping around rather than sitting still?

(I understand the want to see something new, though. When I first played the STTNG game "A Final Unity", it was cool seeing the CGI Enterprise move in ways that were never done on the series. It's just not the mentality that should be taken when remastering, especially when the remaster is the one that's going to be used exclusively in the future.)

 

[Mage]

As it is right now, it's the exact same scenes, frame by frame, but "HD"

What did you expect from a remaster?

I didn't expect anything. I hoped that they would use the opportunity to feed a little more dynamics into a show that was pretty static looking, mostly due to the budget.

They knew this with the TOS remaster. They wisely chucked out all the old 60's FX and added more fluid and dynamic CGI scenes where they could.

I wish they would have taken the same attitude with TNG.

Thing is, a lot of TOS fans out there were pissed that happened, and are very gratefull that the blurays offer the change to watch the original remastered episodes, without new CGI.

Personally, I don't feel TNG needs updated SFX. TOS, at some points could, when an alien ship was just a light on the viewscreen. Other effects didn't need to be replaced at all.

I like my shows the way there were, it's why I'm a fan of it. I don't understand how people can say they loved a show, but then list everything that should be changed.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Well, remastering and current CGI capabilities provide an opportunity to fix a couple of things that were not that great the first time because of various reasons.

As for TOS, the original editing switches between the regular series VFX Enterprise footage and the pilots' footage (with the missing nacelle aft spheres and the towering bridge) are annoying and I'd think that many fans would have liked to see this finally fixed, but not at the cost of accepting all that new funky CGI stuff they did - I then still rather prefer to watch the original VFX footage.

But when you take the opening shot of TNG's "Farpoint" and read in The Making of DS9 how envious they were that they couldn't do uninterrupted zoom-ins like on Babylon 5, there are opportunties worth of being explored, IMHO.

Bob

 

[Hober Mallow]

Does anyone really think that affordable TOS-R-level CGI would have been an improvement over ILM's stunning TNG model shots?

 

[jimbotron]

Does anyone really think that affordable TOS-R-level CGI would have been an improvement over ILM's stunning TNG model shots?

From some comments I've seen, apparently so. TNG-R just doesn't cut it until the repetitive establishing shots of the Enterprise are replaced with CGI shots of the ship flying by the camera from multiple angles.

However, CBS-D has finally improved their work to the point where the CGI replacement shots are *nearly* comparable to the model shots, which can be seen in Unification. It took a while to get there. If/when they start work on DS9, I'm not worried about the visual effects, whether they find the model footage or not.

 

[SoM]

If/when they start work on DS9, I'm not worried about the visual effects, whether they find the model footage or not.

Oh, they'll find the *model* footage (at least to the same extent as TNG - the odd shot may be misfiled). The question is how many of the CGI files from the later series (both individual meshes/textures and, more importantly, the actual animation files) are lost or unusable due to corruption/lack of texture or mesh resolution/incompatability with modern software. (There was a thing a while back about someone having some of the files from one of the now-bust CGI houses, but that was the one that worked more on VOY than DS9)

 

[Daveros]

As someone who wouldn't refer to themselves as a fan of Star Trek, I have found myself really rather impressed with the Blu-Ray releases and have since gone on to purchase the whole lot of them.

Whilst I may occasionally get bored with an episode or storyline I don't find to my tastes, I do consider these releases and the quality of them to be a triumphant success (save for Enterprise, the quality of the picture just isn't there in the same way).

Anyway, what I am trying to say is this: I remember watching the odd episode of Deep Space Nine with my brother many years ago, and I did enjoy what I saw of the series (especially Wallace Shawn). I would perhaps go so far as to say it might be my favourite Star Trek series. That said, I'm not going to bother with it unless it is in HD, I wouldn't see the point.

I really hope they consider releasing this series on Blu-Ray.

 

[Beta-Z]

CBS Tweet

Pick up Star Trek: The Next Generation S6 on Blu-ray 6/24 to get your first look at Star Trek: Deep Space Nine in HD! cbshe.com/STNG6
5:35pm - 22 Mai 14

Of course they mean "Birthright".
But it sounds promising regarding DS9 on BD.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

CBS Tweet

Pick up Star Trek: The Next Generation S6 on Blu-ray 6/24 to get your first look at Star Trek: Deep Space Nine in HD! cbshe.com/STNG6
5:35pm - 22 Mai 14

Of course they mean "Birthright".
But it sounds promising regarding DS9 on BD.

Although "first look" could certainly be intended to mean "first - and only - look" at DS9 in HD, I feel the implication is more likely "first taste" of things to come. At least, that's what I'm telling myself!

Fingers crossed.

 

[jimbotron]

Oh wow, that's really promising.

Or CBS just trolled us big time.

 

[timtonruben359]

CBS Tweet

Pick up Star Trek: The Next Generation S6 on Blu-ray 6/24 to get your first look at Star Trek: Deep Space Nine in HD! cbshe.com/STNG6
5:35pm - 22 Mai 14

Of course they mean "Birthright".
But it sounds promising regarding DS9 on BD.

Although "first look" could certainly be intended to mean "first - and only - look" at DS9 in HD, I feel the implication is more likely "first taste" of things to come. At least, that's what I'm telling myself!

Fingers crossed.

The best part of the phrase is "First look" which implies this just the first step. My hunch is an announcement will be made very shortly since the plan is to release the final season of TNG around Christmas.

 

[Tom]

Also, they said Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, implying the series. If they had just meant a look at the station they would have just said 'Deep Space Nine'.

 

[MacLeod]

Sounds promising, after all why use the phrase "first look ..", instead of just "look at "Deep Space Nine in HD"

 

[3chordboy]

Getting moist with anticipation

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

Getting moist with anticipation

You need to get out more!

 

[Beta-Z]

I'd say it's a 95% sure thing by now.
Why bother mention DS9 at all in the first place?

And the first few seasons aren't that much of a change to their work on TNG now anyway.

 

[ATimson]

And the first few seasons aren't that much of a change to their work on TNG now anyway.

Asides from any shots of Odo morphing or the wormhole...