DS9 deserved a movie

[Timewalker]

I found it refreshing and realistic that Kira wasn't initially pleasant to work with; a delightful contrast to TNG.

As for the NuTrek characters needing to "grow up"...I believe that's supposed to be one of the points...even if it wasn't an alternate timeline these would still be younger versions of the characters than we saw in TOS.

Ohforpetessake! The youngest crew member in TOS - younger even than 22-year-old Ensign Chekov - behaved with far more maturity than this gang of sitcom-style brats. If you're old enough to even BE on the ship in the first place, you're old enough to be expected to behave professionally while on duty. In that shuttle scene, all three of them failed miserably in that regard.

 

[DonIago]

I seem to recall several highly professional conversations occurring in runabouts and shuttlecraft during TNG and DS9...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think more people would recognize Janeway than Sisko, and that group would be a lot smaller than the one that would recognize Kirk, Spock or Picard.

DS9, VOY and ENT had nowhere near the impact TOS and TNG did. That's why they never got movies.

Between DS9 and Voyager, I'd say the order of recognizability among casual fans would be:
Seven
Odo
Quark
Janeway

Battlestar Galactica got even less and it got Razor, Blood and Chrome and The Plan. Babylon 5 got how many movies, 5? DS9 and Voyager could have had made for TV movies on a smaller network and done way better than the BSG movies, but the company in control of the IP only wants to focus it on big budget mainstream projects.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I found it refreshing and realistic that Kira wasn't initially pleasant to work with; a delightful contrast to TNG.

As for the NuTrek characters needing to "grow up"...I believe that's supposed to be one of the points...even if it wasn't an alternate timeline these would still be younger versions of the characters than we saw in TOS.

Ohforpetessake! The youngest crew member in TOS - younger even than 22-year-old Ensign Chekov - behaved with far more maturity than this gang of sitcom-style brats. If you're old enough to even BE on the ship in the first place, you're old enough to be expected to behave professionally while on duty. In that shuttle scene, all three of them failed miserably in that regard.

Yup, totally agree.

 

[Hober Mallow]

And DS9 whether one liked it or not was a successful show, closely comparable in its pop culture profile to the X-Files. About as many people know who Sisko was as know who Scully and Mulder were.

That's ridiculous on the face of it. I liked DS9 and I'd go so far as to say Sisko is my favorite of the Trek captains, but let's be realistic: the X-Files was a pop culture phenomenon; DS9 isn't even close. You actually believe as many people know Sisko as know Muldur and Scully? That's not to say anything about the quality of DS9, the character of Sisko, or of the acting of Avery Brooks (who I personally think is fantastic), but the show is barely remembered by anyone outside of Trek fandom.

During the run of ENT, I remember watching Jeopardy!, and this question popped up: "This series features characters like Archer, T'Pol, and Dr. Phlox." Long pause, blank looks. Then a woman buzzed in, big smile beaming, and called out with perfect confidence... "What is Spongebob Squarepants!" That's how popular the non-TNG Trek spinoffs are.

Again, that's not to say anything at all about quality. Let's just be realistic about the minimal impact DS9 has made.

 

[BigJake]

DS9 and Voyager could have had made for TV movies on a smaller network and done way better than the BSG movies, but the company in control of the IP only wants to focus it on big budget mainstream projects.

DS9 in particular had feature-length episodes and several three-parters in its format. Effectively it did make -- or was partly comprised of -- several made-for-TV movies. That's the reason I don't think it particularly needs or will get big screen treatment.

 

[BigJake]

You actually believe as many people know Sisko as know Muldur and Scully?

Yes. The ratings stats I quoted are actual and factual, and like I said, that's why Sisko is one of the characters that general-interest non-Trek publications key into when they want to talk about iconic Trek. General-interest media is usually a pretty useful guide to what non- or casual fans can recognize about Trek.

General-interest media does not of course generally key in on characters with (to mainstream audiences) confusing-sounding alien names like Garak, T'Pol or Dr. Phlox. Trying to process and guess at stuff like that is why stuff like this happens:

During the run of ENT, I remember watching Jeopardy!, and this question popped up: "This series features characters like Archer, T'Pol, and Dr. Phlox." Long pause, blank looks

You just know poor Archer's shot at getting recognized was blown when the other two thirds of the question featured totally obscure made-up names.

But having said that... come now. You can't plausibly use ENT to make a point about the far higher-profile DS9. That's outright silliness.

Let's just be realistic about the minimal impact DS9 has made.

I don't understand why you're contorting to argue that its impact was "minimal" or to equate it with VOY and ENT. That strikes me as deluded, not "realistic."

 

[Timewalker]

I seem to recall several highly professional conversations occurring in runabouts and shuttlecraft during TNG and DS9...

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. I will remind you that I was comparing TOS and nuTrek. But if you insist on bringing TNG into it, even Wesley usually displayed more maturity on duty than the characters did in the Abrams movies.

And DS9 whether one liked it or not was a successful show, closely comparable in its pop culture profile to the X-Files. About as many people know who Sisko was as know who Scully and Mulder were.

Way back when NonCon was still going strong, there was a year when it was held in Banff. Somebody had added a nice amount of filk-related programming to the schedule, and since I enjoy that, I jumped right in. I found myself with a group of people who wanted to write a filk on the spot - all of us contributing - and chose to do it using a Beatles melody and an X-Files theme.

So here's me, who has written many Star Trek filks, and a respectable number of filks based on other fandoms - including based on non-televised/movie SF novels - and I'm not very familiar with most Beatles songs and had never seen even a single episode of X-Files. I was lost and confused for most of that session and had to get everyone to explain the concept of the series, who Scully and Mulder were, what their relationship was to each other, and so on. Anyway, I was finally able to contribute a grand total of ONE line to the song, which was based on the Beatles' song "Help!".

Point of the above anecdote: Never assume that a genre program that makes it into popular culture is familiar to everyone, even SF fans.

During the run of ENT, I remember watching Jeopardy!, and this question popped up: "This series features characters like Archer, T'Pol, and Dr. Phlox." Long pause, blank looks. Then a woman buzzed in, big smile beaming, and called out with perfect confidence... "What is Spongebob Squarepants!" That's how popular the non-TNG Trek spinoffs are.

Again, that's not to say anything at all about quality. Let's just be realistic about the minimal impact DS9 has made.

Then again, the vast majority of people who make it on to shows like Jeopardy! are really not that knowledgeable. I recall one time when the right question was "What is the Sun?" (the answer was "The nearest star to Earth") and the woman who buzzed in looked vacantly into the air and mumbled something about "Omega?"

Alex Trebek was noticeably startled at how somebody could be so ignorant.

 

[BigJake]

Point of the above anecdote: Never assume that a genre program that makes it into popular culture is familiar to everyone, even SF fans.

I wouldn't want to suggest otherwise. Something being part of popular culture doesn't make it as ubiquitous as Jesus. It just means there's a better chance of its being known.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Then again, the vast majority of people who make it on to shows like Jeopardy! are really not that knowledgeable. I recall one time when the right question was "What is the Sun?" (the answer was "The nearest star to Earth") and the woman who buzzed in looked vacantly into the air and mumbled something about "Omega?"

Alex Trebek was noticeably startled at how somebody could be so ignorant.

This wasn't Celebrity Jeopardy, was it?

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Okay then, smarty-pants, who would you cast as Kira in a new movie?

Nana Visitor. I'd rather see them as they are now and also add new characters. What can I say? I'm just one of those weirdos who prefers continuity instead of reboots.

Do you know how old Nana is? 56. That's kinda old for a lady to be playing an action-orientated character like Kira was. And due to her not being a big star (as well as age), they won't be casting her as Kira, either, or doing a continuation.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Okay then, smarty-pants, who would you cast as Kira in a new movie?

Nana Visitor. I'd rather see them as they are now and also add new characters. What can I say? I'm just one of those weirdos who prefers continuity instead of reboots.

Do you know how old Nana is? 56. That's kinda old for a lady to be playing an action-orientated character like Kira was. And due to her not being a big star (as well as age), they won't be casting her as Kira, either, or doing a continuation.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

Okay then, smarty-pants, who would you cast as Kira in a new movie?

Nana Visitor. I'd rather see them as they are now and also add new characters. What can I say? I'm just one of those weirdos who prefers continuity instead of reboots.

Do you know how old Nana is? 56. That's kinda old for a lady to be playing an action-orientated character like Kira was.

I don't think Kira was particularly "action-orientated", but even so, I don't think that's "old" at all. It is possible to maintain a high level of physical fitness at that grand old age you know.

How about Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Lundgren, Li, Van Damme, Neeson etc? Should they throw the towell in too? Or do "the boys" get a pass?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

As much as DS9 was "character driven," what distinguished it from the other shows was its focus on place. On the starships, the crews were mostly united in the goals and outlooks. DS9 brought people together from different walks of life, who because of their proximity to one another, struggled to work together. If there were to be a movie or series now, I'd rather see new character than old characters either recast or brought from retirement. General/Minister/Vedek Kira makes sense as a recurring character, and Quark would likely still be around (not to mention Morn). However, I would like to see new characters, some Starfleet, maybe some new Cardassians, but also some new Gamma Quadrant species. It certainly would be nice if for once the setting were handed over to someone else. The Enterprises and Voyager were, for the most part, one captain vessels and could not be separated from them. A new DS9 captain would be nice.

JM2C, again.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

^ I could see Commander Nog being the one in charge now.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Nana Visitor. I'd rather see them as they are now and also add new characters. What can I say? I'm just one of those weirdos who prefers continuity instead of reboots.

Do you know how old Nana is? 56. That's kinda old for a lady to be playing an action-orientated character like Kira was.

I don't think Kira was particularly "action-orientated", but even so, I don't think that's "old" at all. It is possible to maintain a high level of physical fitness at that grand old age you know.

How about Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Lundgren, Li, Van Damme, Neeson etc? Should they throw the towel in too? Or do "the boys" get a pass?

Not all 50-somethings are as fit as the men mentioned, and as I said above, she's not a big star compared to them. That does not mean that I don't like Ms. Visitor or Kira, but I am bowing to reality as seen in Hollywood.

 

[Timewalker]

Then again, the vast majority of people who make it on to shows like Jeopardy! are really not that knowledgeable. I recall one time when the right question was "What is the Sun?" (the answer was "The nearest star to Earth") and the woman who buzzed in looked vacantly into the air and mumbled something about "Omega?"

Alex Trebek was noticeably startled at how somebody could be so ignorant.

This wasn't Celebrity Jeopardy, was it?

I don't think so. It just happened to be a contestant who was incredibly stupid about basic astronomy.

 

[BigJake]

I don't think so. It just happened to be a contestant who was incredibly stupid about basic astronomy.

Fun fact: one American in four doesn't know the Earth orbits the sun.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I don't think so. It just happened to be a contestant who was incredibly stupid about basic astronomy.

Fun fact: one American in four doesn't know the Earth orbits the sun.

I bet I can guess their political affiliation... but I won't, because this isn't the NZ.

 

[BigJake]

I don't think so. It just happened to be a contestant who was incredibly stupid about basic astronomy.

Fun fact: one American in four doesn't know the Earth orbits the sun.

I bet I can guess their political affiliation... but I won't, because this isn't the NZ.

Fair enough.