There's always much agreeing to disagree when it comes to Star Trek: Insurrection. It is actually my least favorite of the twelve films. I think there was a great idea in there, but it got lost somewhere along the way to production.
You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
- Thread starter Lance
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There's always much agreeing to disagree when it comes to Star Trek: Insurrection. It is actually my least favorite of the twelve films. I think there was a great idea in there, but it got lost somewhere along the way to production.
And yet the federation didn't mind putting the leaving alone of pre-warp planets under penalty of full scale war into at least one treaty with a rival power.
Plus again I don't see why the federation would bother mentioning the planet and/or the magic rings to anyone, and considering it's located in a crapy part of space unless the tell anyone about this stuff it's doubtful anyone would go near the place.
I mean we are talking about an area of space where communications can be questionable and volatile gas clouds capable of destroying or seriously damage starships are floating around. I can't see anyone in their right mind other that Starfleet wanting to visit the place.
You likely had a thousand-plus Starfleet personnel there during the mission. Good luck keeping them all quiet.
1. Prime Directive clearly doesn't apply. The Baku are not indigenous, pre-warp, or pre-contact. And if it DID apply, it would mean that the Federation should have let the Son'a remove the Baku.
2. The Baku knew full well that they had stumbled upon a revolutionary medical resource that could benefit billions. They decided that their Amish, hypocritical pacifist lifestyle(others can fight FOR THEM, but they can't fight for themselves
) was more important than letting the outside races find out what the Baku had found. Selfish Bastards
deserved whatever was coming to them
er, the SON'A ALREADY KNOW WHERE IT IS. The only reason they didn't just invade in the first place is because they knew it was in Federation space. Since Picard betrayed them and the Son'a became Dominion allies, they have every reason to tell the Dominion and the Cardassians about the planet.
Its called the threat of court martial if they divulge classified information.
Which they should be if they are divulging classified information, and no they're feelings on the matter don't mean jack because they are in a military organization which isn't a democracy.
Depends on when Insurrection takes place in regards to to DS9, could take place before their DS9 mention and it could take place after.
The fact that Picard was looking forward to an archaeological dig that was interrupted by a diplomatic thing becuase the federation is busy negotiating with the Dominion could place to during the time it likely took to finish negotiating the Dominion's surrender. Especially since Ru'afo seemed to refer to conflict with the Dominion in the past tense and that it was about 2 years since First Contact (which was around mid season 5) which would put the film during season 7.
So the Son'a might not be able to tell the Dominion squat and it still leaves their post Insurrection stance on the Ba'ku in question since they seemed to be reconciling at the end of the film.
Funny, one could make that very same argument in regards to Picard's actions in the Briar Patch. Which includes violating orders before he ever knew what was going.
The fact that Worf is still in Starfleet would put the film before the end of the war.
I have INS playing now.
Sojef and Anij have informed Picard that they have tech that they choose not to use.
More to come ...
Sojef and Anij have informed Picard that they have tech that they choose not to use.
More to come ...
"The Sona could establish a colony on another part of the planet."
"How many people does it take, Admiral, before it becomes wrong?"
EDIT: Watching the battle in the hills. How is this not classic Trek?
Picard: "You wouldn't kill your own people, Ruafo. Your own parents."
("Parricide." Sorry, I've never seen that word before.)
Sona guy whose name I didn't catch: "It will kill them all."
Ruafo: "No one hated them more than you."
Picard: "It's hard not to see how it's turned Ruafo into a madman. And you, into a coward. A man that denies his own conscience. A coward without the moral courage to prevent an atrocity."
"Is this how a Federation officer pleads for his life?"
"I'm not pleading for my life, I'm pleading for yours."
Additional edit:
After going through the movie again, my opinion has not changed. The Baku should have been left alone.
Sorry folks, but Picard was right.
"How many people does it take, Admiral, before it becomes wrong?"
EDIT: Watching the battle in the hills. How is this not classic Trek?
Picard: "You wouldn't kill your own people, Ruafo. Your own parents."
("Parricide." Sorry, I've never seen that word before.)
Sona guy whose name I didn't catch: "It will kill them all."
Ruafo: "No one hated them more than you."
Picard: "It's hard not to see how it's turned Ruafo into a madman. And you, into a coward. A man that denies his own conscience. A coward without the moral courage to prevent an atrocity."
"Is this how a Federation officer pleads for his life?"
"I'm not pleading for my life, I'm pleading for yours."
Additional edit:
After going through the movie again, my opinion has not changed. The Baku should have been left alone.
Sorry folks, but Picard was right.
Last edited:
It was called investigating why Data went nuts. Which Dougherty agreed to if you will recall.
based on what principle? I continue to be amazed at this perspective. There are really only two possibilities once you ignore the whole "greater good" argument that the Baku should be removed.
It's either:
A) A planet in Federation space, whereby the Federation has the right to remove them from their territory
or
B) It's not, but the PD applies, in which case the SON'A have an equal claim on the planet and Picard and the Federation should get out of the way.
There is literally NO argument for saying that it's NOT a Federation planet and yet Picard is right to defend the Baku from the Son'a. The "anti-removal" side wants to have it both ways, arguing that "the Baku should be left alone" AND that they should be defended from anyone who would remove them to get at the planet's resources.
Heads you win, tails you win.
nope-there is very clearly a point at which Dougherty orders Picard to leave the area AFTER they've recovered Data and yet Picard ignores it to continue his investigation. At that point he's violating orders that he has no reason not to think are legit.
This movie would have been a lot more interesting if Dougherty had at least one Starfleet ship in the area that respected his POV. One wonders whether Our Heroes would have been so willing to engage in hostilities with their own people versus a bunch of (manipulatively) ugly aliens.
And at the point after they knew Data was shot by the Son'a before he malfunctioned, so he kind of has a reason to suspect something rotten is going on.
I think there's probably a good argument to be had as to whether suspecting something rotten is going on is sufficient grounds for disobeying orders from a flag officer.
Let's not forget that unless you want to believe Dougherty was a rogue officer...which would certainly make some arguments easier here...he was operating under orders from the Federation Council. Picard didn't even bother to check with anyone before launching his private little war.
Let's not forget that unless you want to believe Dougherty was a rogue officer...which would certainly make some arguments easier here...he was operating under orders from the Federation Council. Picard didn't even bother to check with anyone before launching his private little war.
Well the crew of the Starfleet ship would probably be screwed if they went along with Ru'afo and Dougherty's plan to attack the Enterprise.
Say what you will about getting into a fire fight with Picard but unprovoked attacks on the Federation flagship just to stop them from complaining to the Federation council are not likely to well received by said council, what with Picard mentioning Dougherty possibly facing a court martial for that.
Of course on the other hand the fact that the species responsible is pretty shady added to the fact that the shooting implies they are hiding something might.
Of course without the ability to contact the federation and confirm any of that, I question that.
And Starfleet's history of insane admirals doesn't incline me to believe him just because he says so.
He sent Riker to complain about it and Dougherty responded by agreeing to have the Enterprise attacked and possibly destroyed so, not really making Dougherty not look like a nutty admiral.
and again insane admirals are a thing and considering Picard met two of them and another one tried to launch a coup d'état against the Federation and all of them usually use the defense of doing it to save the federation I can't really blame Picard for thinking this might be another one of those and acting accordingly.
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