The Walking Dead Season 4

[Spot's Meow]

Crazy episode. I think I literally gasped out loud, even though we pretty much knew it was coming after what she did to her sister. One of the creepiest parts was her saying that she was about to do it to Judith too.

I thought it was funny that #OMiceAndLizzie was trending on Twitter for a while after the episode.

 

[Galileo7]

Confirmed on all points concerning Lizzie. She was a ticking time bomb. Still a rough episode the way it played out.

from a character point of view, I am now worried for Carol's survival. Her arc is pretty well played out.

Agree. Hope Carol continues on the series alive and well.

 

[Noname Given]

IMO - very well written episode, but VERY f**ked up situation. I really hope the two child actresses have good heads on their shoulders because (and yes, it may be because I'm a lot older now myself) that's very adult/intense/complex subject matter, and not something I'd want to expose a young person to; even as a fantasy.)

I thought from a story and character perspective it was well presented and handled, but still - REALLY f**ked up.

 

[shivkala]

I think Carol has more story, especially as long as Asskicker is around. Judith can be Carol's redemption. Three girls were under her watch and three girls are now dead (one by her own hand). If she can keep Judith alive, it might redeem Carol. I don't know how long the show will go on, I doubt we'll see Judith at Mika or Sophia's age (let alone Lizzie or Carl's), but it would cap off Carol's story if she learned from her mistakes and kept Judith alive for years and years.

At the very least, I see Carol surviving until at least Rick is reunited with Judith.

 

[Scout101]

Had to happen. You can't trust her with anyone anymore, and the world's too scary a place now to not be able to trust the people in your group. Can't release this 11 year old monster out into the world, as she'll seem innocent enough for someone else to pick up, and then same result there. And leaving her by herself is far more cruel than putting her down. She'll suffer a terrible death in short order (either zombies, other people, or starvation/elements), so that's worse than killing her, as she'll definitely suffer in any of those cases.

Tough to show a kid killing another kid, and then being executed, but logically that's how the story had to play out. She was broken, and you couldn't fix it in that world. Nowhere to take her, and not safe to stay with her. Had to die.

 

[bbjeg]

When she said she was gonna kill the baby too it was pretty much bye bye time. Better to not have her kill anyone else (like any other passerby survivors if they had left her there, who would think "aw a poor little girl on her own, let's take her with us", and then one morning wake up with a knife in their stomach)

I didn't read the comic (which I gather contained similar deaths) and believed they were going to do something like that and leave her at the house (also believing that would be a half-ass answer).

 

[Ryan8bit]

When she said she was gonna kill the baby too it was pretty much bye bye time. Better to not have her kill anyone else (like any other passerby survivors if they had left her there, who would think "aw a poor little girl on her own, let's take her with us", and then one morning wake up with a knife in their stomach)

Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I was just looking for an alternative when it seems like there wasn't an easy one. One that I thought of was for them to let her turn like she likely wanted to, but that's also somewhat cruel by at least their standards, and then she would still somewhat pose a risk to others. It's just all around sad.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Played out as I guessed. Lizzie was unfit for human society. Even if left alone, she would have been attacked by a walker--or allowed herself to be bitten/turned (as she tried to in this episode).

While she's played as a tragic figure, her murder of Mika confirmed that she was beyond any sort of normal thought process--much like the Governor; both had twisted ideas on the "new" nature of life, and could not be allowed to live, lest more innocents die at their hands.

few will doubt Mika being truly innocent and respectful of life--only to lose her own--was the greatest blow delivered by the episode.

Some are wondering if the full weight of losing Sophia, Mika and Lizzie will eventually lead Carol to take dangerous chances (as a means of suicide), but Tyreese forgiving her for the very reason she was (unjustifiably) banished gave her a hope that someone finally understands how things must work in the ZA world. She's a great character, and I hope she lasts the run of the series.

 

[Guy Gardener]

For those of you who can't be bothered watching the Talking Dead, The Jigsaw puzzle they were making throughout the episode was a picture of

Spoiler

Carol's daughter Sophia.

And they didn't show the cast the box top until the last day.

 

[bbjeg]

For those of you who can't be bothered watching the Talking Dead, The Jigsaw puzzle they were making throughout the episode was a picture of

Spoiler

Carol's daughter Sophia.

And they didn't show the cast the box top until the last day.

In character, if they solved that puzzle, they'd be shitting bricks.

 

[Stiletto]

Maybe I'm a heartless bastard or something, but I don't understand why TWD has in several occasions NOT killed/stopped random zombies? Sure, I understand that they left the ones outside the prison to stumble around as a bit of camouflage, but why not go back and kill that zombie collapsed on the track in this episode? They were once people, and now they are not. They are a menace to anyone coming across them. Carl not killing one led (although not his fault) to Dale getting killed.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

One would assume any living person coming across the train track walker would simply step around it, since the creature was stuck on the tracks. Besides, that walker just got lucky: Lizzie asked Tyreese to spare it, Mika and Lizzie end up running from it when the burning walkers emerged, then the last we see of it, is at the point when Carol, Tyreese and Judith are leaving for Terminus.

By that third appearance, the survivors just wanted to put distance between themselves and that sad location as soon as possible.

 

[selina]

I was a bit surprised that Carol and Tyreese didn't allow Lizzy to watch her sister turn. Lizzy might have finally understood that the old Mika was gone for good and that zombies don't have a personality - or a brain function for that matter, except for the need to eat. Watching zombie Mika could have been Lizzy's wake up call. The whole situation reminded my of Hershal. Back on the farm he thought, too, that his wife was still "there" somehow and that zombies would just be different. But in the end he understood. Since Carol was also at the farm, I wondered why she didn't explain the situation to Lizzy more explicitly.

One question: Did Tyreese carry Judith on his back when they left the house at the end of the episode? He had something on his back but I couldn't see what it was. And neither of them were carrying Judith on their arms.

 

[Aragorn]

When she said she was gonna kill the baby too it was pretty much bye bye time. Better to not have her kill anyone else (like any other passerby survivors if they had left her there, who would think "aw a poor little girl on her own, let's take her with us", and then one morning wake up with a knife in their stomach)

I didn't read the comic (which I gather contained similar deaths) and believed they were going to do something like that and leave her at the house (also believing that would be a half-ass answer).

In the comics....

Spoiler: Lizzie and Mika

are twin boys who Dale and Andrea are looking after upon their father's death. No one knows how to respond to one boy killing the other other than locking him up, and Dale being Dale doesn't want him put to death, so Carl kills the boy.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

selina, Lizzie would not be convinced by the Greene barn example. She had a basic understanding that walkers attack the living, but she would not let go of the creatures being "just different," even after she (and her sister) were running from the charred walkers. So, even though she knows they bite, and that could be lethal, she wanted to push the fantasy that the world of the living and reanimated were somehow joined.

Once someone is THAT stuck in their own beliefs, what could they do? Then, imagine how Lizzie would have fallen apart if she dropped the fantasy, only to deal with the murder of her own sister? Lizzie was a lost cause.

BTW, Tyreese had Judith in a makeshift carrier on his back.

 

[shivkala]

She had the same mentality suicide cultists have, in other words, she felt that death was a transition to something else. Most people are (rightly) afraid of transforming into a walker, but Lizzie seemed excited by the idea (though, except for the walker on the track, not enough to off herself).

 

[Ryan8bit]

Tyreese forgiving her for the very reason she was (unjustifiably) banished gave her a hope that someone finally understands how things must work in the ZA world.

The odd thing here is that both Lizzie and Carol share the same sort of being exiled. Lizzie's was a death sentence, but I think it fit her crime. Carol's case was more morally questionable, so her fate was only exile. So both Rick and Carol were then in positions of what to do with people considered disruptive to the current situation. In essence, Carol had to do what Rick had to do to her. (Conversely, Rick made an executive decision to exile her while she made an executive decision to kill two people, so they both weren't thinking clearly there).

And Tyreese seemed like he was on the verge of doing something bad to Carol, but he showed restraint because of the situation with the girls. Had he found out about Carol while he was at the prison, there was a good chance he would not have restrained himself. He didn't have that experience yet to help temper his decisions. So even if Rick's exiling her was wrong (in that present context, it was not), he may have saved her life. Carol seemed to understand Rick's decision when being exiled, and she also thought that Tyreese was going to want to kill her when finding out. She understands that what she did wasn't exactly the right thing to do, but just what she thought needed to be done (although she was wrong).

It will be interesting to see if/when Carol and Rick meet up again how that might play out. I'm guessing that again because of the circumstances, Rick will forgive her too. But like Tyreese said, it won't be forgotten.

 

[Evil Twin]

So yeah, that played out pretty much exactly as I expected. Definitely better telegraphed than in the comics, since Billy and Ben had zero personality, so when it happened, it was completely out of left field.

Did anyone else get major Fallout vibes from the episode's opening scene? The music plus the slowly panning camera, that can't have been a coincidence. Someone's on the staff's a fan, I tells ya!

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geLiEiAiQJA[/yt]

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Ryan8bit, while Tyreese will not forget, he was part of the decision to kill Lizzie, so he should not "keep one eye open" (so to speak), or be suspicious around Carol, since he now knows what it means to take action that will save lives. The problem with a man like Rick is that he's still thinking like all laws from the pre-ZA still apply...at least where others are concerned.

Remember, he was willing to hand Michonne over to the Governor, knowing that was a death sentence, only to protect his own interests. At least Carol was dealing with a genuine threat to the entire prison community (if allowed to turn / get loose), as opposed to Rick, who tried to place a non-threat's head on the chopping block.

He seems to be a "do as I say, not as I do" man, which is why Carol has the moral high ground between the two. Even in the Lizzie case, Carol was protecting humanity...not just her own interests from a local psycho in Rick's case (whether that was Shane or the Governor). She was/is seeing the bigger picture, and protecting as many lives as possible. If she reunites with Rick, and he still takes a stand against her, then he's totally divorced from rationality.

 

[Reverend]

She had the same mentality suicide cultists have, in other words, she felt that death was a transition to something else. Most people are (rightly) afraid of transforming into a walker, but Lizzie seemed excited by the idea (though, except for the walker on the track, not enough to off herself).

I'm not so sure. The way I see it, if that were the case then she would have slit her own throat to prove her point, not her sister's. Clearly, she was still afraid of making the "transition" herself. On some level she knew she needed to be alive to be able to see Carol convinced by her demonstration and validate her belief.

She's more like the cult leader who only sort of buys into the hocus pocus and encourages everyone else to off themselves first, while they're still trying to convince themselves.


As for the Fallout thing; I took it as a direct reference.