The early seasons :
- Thread starter Cascades
- Start date
I think season two is strong, though still rough. Opportunities to make great television were missed. I watched Paradise today, thinking that it was odd that they didn't address the level of social control more thoroughly.
indeed, and the ending just makes you want to puke-it throws realism out the window that this community isn't out for payback, but is instead content and accepting of how much of their lives were stolen.
^After powerful scenes of Sisko suffering in the sweatbox (just a little reference to plantation life), it was apologetic, at best, and definitely a waste of an intriguing premise. At the very least, we should have had a scene in which Cassandra and her henchmen were arrested, or in which Joseph explicitly rejects her authority.
The first half of season seven is far worse on the whole than any of the early seasons are on the whole. (And that's not an indictment of Ezri, that's an indictment of just the stupidity of some of the premises in that stretch).
Agree on Paradise. I might believe a handful of them wanting to continue their simpler existence, but all of them? None of them want to see their families again? Really?
Agree on Paradise. I might believe a handful of them wanting to continue their simpler existence, but all of them? None of them want to see their families again? Really?
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Amaris
Guest
I like everything up to the actual Dominion War arc. There are plenty of episodes I like individually in the war seasons, but the war itself I do not like so much. It never really interested me. I just wanted it to be over so we could go back to the other great threads that were ready to be explored, but instead, the war continued right to the end.
I think they went a little nuts when they realized how they could do big space battle scenes with CGI. It was nice to see the first few times, but it got repetitive for me.
I'm not that impressed with the TOS Remastered CGI scenes either. I think it's because I was messing around with that sort of thing myself in an animation program in 2000, though of course my efforts were more primitive.
I'm not that impressed with the TOS Remastered CGI scenes either. I think it's because I was messing around with that sort of thing myself in an animation program in 2000, though of course my efforts were more primitive.
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Amaris
Guest
Yeah, the novelty wears off quickly. At the end of the day, I want fun and engaging stories. All the CGI in the world won't save a movie or TV show if it doesn't sit on a solid foundation of good story telling. For me, the best thing about the TOS stuff is the crystal clear quality of the episodes now, with all of that color, and those sharp lines just bursting out of the screen. I get to enjoy one of my favorite series without worrying that it will fall into disrepair.
Also on Paradise: the notion that these people would choose to seek escape to the exclusion of eating, drinking and having shelter is not only silly, it's dated. As survival shows tend to point out, living under such conditions means living primitively. It's not really an ideological issue--nothing was proved by this social experiment. Still an interesting episode, but increasingly dated.
Like most ST shows DS9 took a while for it to find it's legs. I personally think it found them sooner than some of the other series. There are many episodes in the early seasons with fantastic quality, ex. Duet. They had to struggle with breaking away from TNG and once they finally stopped trying to move characters over (Luxwana and Q) it started to find it's own identity.
The first three seasons are very uneven, but we were really spoiled when they started telling serialized stories that were balls to wall from the time Worf joined the cast and the Dominion War happened.
While I'm not upset I watched the 1st 2 seasons, I'm not ashamed to say they probably were the worst seasons 1&2 in all of trek (just eeeeking out TNG).
There's tons to complain about.
Just a couple...
The Ferengi are now like Quark? How did that change come about from TNG?
How does DS9 go from a war torn station to all "Star Fleet sparkly" inside about 3 episodes?
What's up with all these lead actors that can't act? Avery, Nana & Alexander horribly over acted... Terry was a board. If it weren't for the outstanding supporting cast (Rene, Armin, Colm, Cirroc, etc...) I wouldn't have made it through the 1st 2 seasons.
No exploring to speak of, we are "treking" nowhere...
How is it "OK" for Dax to call her Commanding Officer "Benjaman" and Sisko to refer to one of his officers as "old man"? Where on the planet (or space) is that EVER acceptable?
That all said, I'm glad I stuck with it as it get really good once the Dominion pop in...
There's tons to complain about.
Just a couple...
The Ferengi are now like Quark? How did that change come about from TNG?
How does DS9 go from a war torn station to all "Star Fleet sparkly" inside about 3 episodes?
What's up with all these lead actors that can't act? Avery, Nana & Alexander horribly over acted... Terry was a board. If it weren't for the outstanding supporting cast (Rene, Armin, Colm, Cirroc, etc...) I wouldn't have made it through the 1st 2 seasons.
No exploring to speak of, we are "treking" nowhere...
How is it "OK" for Dax to call her Commanding Officer "Benjaman" and Sisko to refer to one of his officers as "old man"? Where on the planet (or space) is that EVER acceptable?
That all said, I'm glad I stuck with it as it get really good once the Dominion pop in...
I remember the Ferengi in TNG as is "The Last Outpost" Did they somehow change in TNG?
No they are not. The Captain can use first names when he/she chooses while talking down the chain of command, but for one of his officers to make it a habit and consistently use the Captains first name is inappropriate.
They're hardly the first major aliens to change in Star Trek. But I would argue that the Ferengi as developed in DS9 are far more interesting and fun than the Ferengi of "The Last Outpost."
Like McCoy did by calling Kirk, Jim?
Couldn't you argue it's upto the Captain to set an example, if they use first names/nick names aren't they setting the example that they are happy for those to be used? It's not like Sisko went around calling all his officers by a first name/nick name. And most of his officers rarely addressed him as Ben/Benjamin. Sure Starfleet might act as a military, but that doesn't mean it has to abide by what we consider to be military decorum today.
So you are saying the Ferengi didn't change from when we first see them in TNG until they last appearence in TNG?
Didn't we see a drastic shift of the Farengi in Menage a Troi? I mean in Last Outpost and The Battle, the Farengi were pretty bad, with the hissing and the big heads and whatever. It seemed likek in Menage a Troi they were starting the transition from Last Outpost Farengi to DS9 Farengi. I'm glad DS9 changed the Farengi too, since they were awful in TNG.
^ I agree with both of what you are saying. I myself enjoyed the early seasons and I think that there are many episodes that are excellent in the beginning of the show. The writers and actors grow into their roles and get to the point (season 4) where they become a well oiled machine. It took those first few seasons for them to find there feet and there place without having to rely on TNG.I think they were in a TNG-like formula for much of the early seasons. And while that wasn't bad, the character and story arcs which became more prevalent in the seasons that followed worked far better for DS9. In my opinion.
One thing that the writers did excellently by season 4 was introducing a thread/plot point that they could later pick up on in another episode/season. So as not to look like it came out of no where. I love how they were usually short scenes and even sometimes blink and you miss them scenes. Things like that really helped to shape this show into a serialized format.
For Example...
The True Way group mentioned briefly in season 4's Our Man Bashir for being responsible for sabotaging the runabout. They are mentioned only in one other episode and that plot point was never picked up again by the show. But the point is, is that they could have used that as a major plot line further down the line. The seeds would have been there so as not to seem like it came out of no where.
It's revealed in late season 2's The Collaborator that Odo is in love with Kira. It's a blink and you miss it scene in which Kira tells Odo that she's in love with Bariel and it's in his hesitant response. It's a plot line that lasts the rest of the show.
Plus at that point (season 4) they had developed the characters and their relationships to the other characters. They had gotten into the grove of focusing on particular pairings and built plots from there.
I really enjoyed...
Season 1s: Duet, Progress, In the Hands of the Prophets and Captive Pursuit
Season 2: The Homecoming - The Siege, Cardassians, Necessary Evil, Armageddon Game, Paradise, The Maquis, The Collaborator, The Wire and Crossover
Season 3: The Search, The Abandoned, Civil Defense, Past Tense, Life Support, Destiny, Improbable Cause, The Die is Cast, Facets and The Adversary.
I thought were excellent..
Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets, Necessary Evil, The Wire, Improbable Cause and The Die is Cast.
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