Ladies, are there "guy" things that you like/enjoy?

[Tora Ziyal]

You asked for it. So here we go…

I love my hair very short, which some people think is masculine. I often wear androgynous clothing, like a blazer over jeans. I'm not very interested in girly things like nail polish, heels, or the color pink. I've never had a pedicure. And I don't like shopping for clothes or shoes, though I do like the end result.

I started working in corrections at a time when very few women were in the field. I was the only woman in my seminary class. As a kid, I played with toy guns and cars, in addition to the expected dolls.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I don't think this works as well as the reverse. No one minds if women wear men's clothes, kiss women, and shoot guns. In fact, that's hawt. Men still have unfair pay and power, but women have been WAAAY more successful at liberating themselves from traditional gender stuff than men have so far.

Which isn't to discourage discussion of your topic, by any means. I'm just sayin'.

 

[selina]

Well, I certainly enjoy wearing trousers. When I was a teenager I didn't even have a dress. Over the years that has changed and I'm more "girlie" now. I wear usually sneakers although I have a few pairs of shoes with heels. I like horror movies and I play videogames (no horror video games though). Recently I graduated from my postgraduate study in game development. We were only two girls in my class. (I have to add that we were a very small class of only eight students). I insist on carrying my own luggage.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I know when I look at Christmas or sales catalogues that have different pages for "Him" and "Her" I usually want the For Him products, and rarely want the For Her products. This is especially true when it comes book or DVD catalogues.

 

[Pondwater]

Watching baseball and talking about it.

When I was a kid I loved WWF (now WWE).

 

[thestrangequark]

I don't think this works as well as the reverse. No one minds if women wear men's clothes, kiss women, and shoot guns. In fact, that's hawt. Men still have unfair pay and power, but women have been WAAAY more successful at liberating themselves from traditional gender stuff than men have so far.

Which isn't to discourage discussion of your topic, by any means. I'm just sayin'.

Yeah...no. Don't think so.

-Men's clothes? Women can wear trousers and jeans, sure (rarely do they wear men's, though), but no make up? Short hair? Get ready to be called a lesbo!
-Kissing other women is "hawt "? Now, I'm not accusing you of anything, but I'd caution against talking about this without taking some care. Is it okay to find the sight of two women kissing arousing? Sure! Do lesbian and bi women have a history of their sexuality being treated as something legitimate only when it is for the benefit of straight dudes who find it hawt? OMG yes.
-Shooting guns? Okay...but best be sure it's a LADYGUN.

My point isn't that "traditional gender stuff" as you put it, is not a burden on both genders, but that it's a bit far-reaching to claim that women are more liberated from such stuff than men. After all, where do the power and pay gaps you rightfully cited come from, if not our traditional societal ideas about gender stuff?

So, yeah, it definitely works as well in reverse! Read further and see...

I love my hair very short, which some people think is masculine.

Short hair is the BEST! I used to have it long, and I mean looooong (to my knees), and I cut it all off when I was 19 and never looked back. Sometimes I get it into my silly head that it'd be nice to grow it out. But around the time it gets past my chin I start to feel depressed, then I cut it all off and realize it was the hair that was burdening me. Short hair pros: a) You can really show off the earrings, b) Your neck looks super sexy, c) Fewer catcalls. Cons: a) Catcalls tend to be homophobic, because the sort of asses who catcall are the same sort of asses who assume that short hair=lesbian and lesbian=will make out with another girl in front of you for your benefit.

I often wear androgynous clothing, like a blazer over jeans.

I love the androgynous look. I don't think I could ever pull it off though. My glass is unmistakably hour.

I'm not very interested in girly things like nail polish, heels, or the color pink. I've never had a pedicure. And I don't like shopping for clothes or shoes, though I do like the end result.

Okay, I am into all that stuff. Really into it.

I started working in corrections at a time when very few women were in the field. I was the only woman in my seminary class. As a kid, I played with toy guns and cars, in addition to the expected dolls.

I think maybe part of USS Triumphant's perception that women are more liberated in these areas may come from the fact that it is more acceptable for girls, in general, to play with "boy" toys as well as "girl" toys. But the amount of fucking pink (and this from some one who likes pink) in the girls toy aisles is enough to show the reality: there's been virtually no progress in breaking down gender stereotypes in toys, at all. I also played with a lot of "boys" toys as a kid. Robin Hood was my favorite game, I liked bows and arrows. The pirate lego set was my favorite, but I liked "girl" toys too.

I think where my interests were and are noticeably less "girly" throughout both my childhood and adult life have been in regard to science and science fiction, as the other women of the BBS will have undoubtably experienced as well.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

I don't really act girly much. I hang out with mostly guys (and not in a romantic way). Probably because my best friends growing up were boys. Growing up with all guys as friends...playing sports in the yard each day, playing wrestling games (Royal Rumble!) on nintendo, etc... and just generally being with guys have kind of made me more comfortable with guys and interests commonly associated with guys.

-I don't really worry much about my hair and makeup, however I do brush my hair often. But I am lazy getting haircuts/dyes
-I do Fantasy Football
-I hang out with mostly guy friends
-I make dirty jokes often.... haha
-I enjoy technical interests (web development, programming, etc) which are generally moreso associated with guys
-I prefer living alone and don't obsess over relationships
-Playing first person shooters and other video games associated with dudes
-I enjoy games like darts, poker, and pool
-I have gone to topless bars mostly filled with dudes and was offended at the glances I got. I was only there for kicks and not to lust over the ladies, but I still resented the looks I got. Jeez, it's 2014.

Then again, I have been TOLD by guys that I am pretty girly but without being girly-girly. Whatever that means. But I have never been mistaken for a lesbian (I asked some guys if they ever doubted and they said no) which I wouldn't care even if they did, but I was just always curious. But yeah apparently I am girly but I just don't feel like it.

I do wear skirts often.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I love football, yard work, knowing how to fix things on my car and cartoons supposedly meant for boys.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I don't think this works as well as the reverse. No one minds if women wear men's clothes, kiss women, and shoot guns. In fact, that's hawt. Men still have unfair pay and power, but women have been WAAAY more successful at liberating themselves from traditional gender stuff than men have so far.

Which isn't to discourage discussion of your topic, by any means. I'm just sayin'.

Yeah...no. Don't think so.

-Men's clothes? Women can wear trousers and jeans, sure (rarely do they wear men's, though), but no make up? Short hair? Get ready to be called a lesbo!
-Kissing other women is "hawt "? Now, I'm not accusing you of anything, but I'd caution against talking about this without taking some care. Is it okay to find the sight of two women kissing arousing? Sure! Do lesbian and bi women have a history of their sexuality being treated as something legitimate only when it is for the benefit of straight dudes who find it hawt? OMG yes.

'Hawt' when the women are traditionally cute (for want of a phrase) and, as you point out, putting on a show for guys.

I started working in corrections at a time when very few women were in the field. I was the only woman in my seminary class. As a kid, I played with toy guns and cars, in addition to the expected dolls.

I think maybe part of USS Triumphant's perception that women are more liberated in these areas may come from the fact that it is more acceptable for girls, in general, to play with "boy" toys as well as "girl" toys.

It seems to come down to it being acceptable within limits for girls to use guy stuff because it is OK to emulate and 'heroize' males, but when it is the reverse, males are often discouraged to admire women except as possessions and appreciation of feminine stuff by males is much more limited and freighted with those appreciating such stuff as being effeminate (bad for that manly image) and or gay.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I don't think this works as well as the reverse. No one minds if women wear men's clothes, kiss women, and shoot guns. In fact, that's hawt.

So it's okay if women do things as long as guys find it "hawt", I get it. Boy, women are sooo liberated.

And to stay on topic a little: I guess I'm a pretty girly girl. My hair is long, I love dresses, skirts, high heels, makeup... and watching football (read: soccer). That's fine, right?
I have no idea how to fix my car (I'll claim it's cause I'm a clumsy historian and not cause I'm a girl), in fact I don't care about cars at all but then neither do any of the guys I know.
I'm trying to come up with things my male friends love that I don't enjoy. Maybe they're all just really girly?

 

[Amaris]

One of the reasons Lauren Faust (the creator of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic) made her own version of the franchise is because what she saw on television disgusted her. Cartoons marketed for boys had action, adventure, mystery, intrigue, and so on, while cartoons marketed for girls were about tea parties, and liking boys. She felt that programming for girls was simply stupid, and empty.

Here's a good article on that whole front here: http://www.laweekly.com/publicspectacle/2012/05/17/lauren-faust-lets-hear-it-for-the-girls

The truth is, in television especially, programming "for girls" is usually vacuous and empty, because we still have this idea in our culture that women have to have children, have to pine over their man, and have to spend the rest of their time being petite girly girls who wear pink and have parties with their friends. It's the idea that girls exist to complement their boys. It's outdated, and it needs to go as a standard model.

P.S. I realize this is the "Ladies" thread, so I'll keep my posts to a minimum. I just wanted to point this out.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I spit in the street.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Girls will be girls.

This is true, J. Both genders are crippled by stereotypes and expectations, but women have traditionally gotten the worst of it. As someone who grew up in the Women's Lib and Counterculture eras, it grieves me that there are still lists of "girl" things and "guy" things-- often perpetuated by people who self-identify as "Feminists."

However, that being said, a lot of progress has been made with women encroaching on traditional male areas. Personally, I love it when women share my interests in the Arts & Sciences (which I don't think of as male). I love seeing female astronauts, I love seeing the female talking heads on astronomy shows and dinosaur shows, I love seeing female names on the covers of SF magazines, and female creators on SFF TV shows. It's much better now, but not good enough; there should be no labels or limitations on hobbies or interests-- they should be judged on their own merits.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

excellent point, RJD! If only more men thought like that!

In limnology the male/female ratio is pretty exactly 50/50. For my non-limnologist male colleagues here at my office I am just a colleague and buddy and whether I am male, female or anything between both doesn't bother them at all (unless I fall into the water and have to change into dry clothes - but then all of us have seen each other in our undies at such occasions. The one who falls in traditionally has to pay for a round which for the vast majority of my male colleagues is the only interesting aspect about the whole matter.)

Genuine guy things I enjoy are beating my colleagues ar arm wrestling and leaving my laundry lying around at home .
Of what I'd consider "borderline guy stuff" I like mowing the lawn, repairing my business car and my computer and watching the Japanese Sumo championships (though after Wakanohana quit it's never really been the same) as well as spending clear nights with my telescope, stargazing.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I don't think this works as well as the reverse. No one minds if women wear men's clothes, kiss women, and shoot guns. In fact, that's hawt.

So it's okay if women do things as long as guys find it "hawt", I get it. Boy, women are sooo liberated.

No, no, no. It doesn't matter if guys think it is hawt. I know plenty of women that do!

And regarding toys, another way to look at it is that since gender restrictions for girls have relaxed, "boy's toys" have become just "toys", and you can complain about all the pink if you want, but you get all of those plus a whole row or two to play with that we generally aren't allowed to because "those are for girls".

But you know what? I had a Cabbage Patch doll and an Easy Bake oven. So you can bite me - I'm playing with them ANYWAY.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Interesting.

In the original guys' thread, women didn't start posting until the 15th message. And none of us criticized the choice of topic. In our thread of (currently) 15 messages, the first effing response was from a guy, and there are now several more.

Yes, I think it's more than coincidence.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Interesting.

In the original guys' thread, women didn't start posting until the 15th message. And none of us criticized the choice of topic. In our thread of (currently) 15 messages, the first effing response was from a guy, and there are now several more.

Yes, I think it's more than coincidence.

1. I'm definitely not criticizing.

2. You announced this thread in the other thread. Participants in that one are going to come look at this one.

3. You announced there and in your thread title that there are going to be WOMEN HERE, and you don't expect guys to come looking? On this board?

Sorry if I derailed the thread at all with my first response - not my intent.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Apology accepted. And of course I expected guys to come looking! But looking and posting -- especially in quantity -- are not the same thing.

A guy thing that I almost forgot about: my tool box, with good quality tools. One day, a little girl neighbor came to visit while I was working on some project. The conversation started like this:

"Ms. Ziyal, are you a girl?"
"Of course I am. Why?"
"Girls don't have tool boxes!"

 

[USS Triumphant]

Apology accepted. And of course I expected guys to come looking! But looking and posting -- especially in quantity -- are not the same thing.

Well, if it helps, my teenage daughter and her friends say I'm "an honorary teenage girl" because of how many of the same things I like in common with them that most guys my age don't.

But probably not. I'll be quiet now.

 

[HaventGotALife]

^^ Girls will be girls.

This is true, J. Both genders are crippled by stereotypes and expectations, but women have traditionally gotten the worst of it. As someone who grew up in the Women's Lib and Counterculture eras, it grieves me that there are still lists of "girl" things and "guy" things-- often perpetuated by people who self-identify as "Feminists."

However, that being said, a lot of progress has been made with women encroaching on traditional male areas. Personally, I love it when women share my interests in the Arts & Sciences (which I don't think of as male). I love seeing female astronauts, I love seeing the female talking heads on astronomy shows and dinosaur shows, I love seeing female names on the covers of SF magazines, and female creators on SFF TV shows. It's much better now, but not good enough; there should be no labels or limitations on hobbies or interests-- they should be judged on their own merits.

I am male and I have an opinion on this interesting sociological discussion that popped out of this thread.

I think there are differences in the sexes. Women are prone to be more sensitive, to listen more, to express emotions more than men. Now, how that relates to all cartoons geared towards girls wanting to find a man, I don't think it does. But we should be able to show strong and nuanced women in believable circumstances. And that means that the sociopaths are going to be men. If we have a culture that finds them interesting, it's become a man's domain. If you want to show Borderline Personality Disorder, then women are more prone to that disorder. But when considering who has been the mass murderers throughout time, I can only think of one woman ("I don't like Mondays"). We have a culture that thinks they are interesting. They are the characters we arrest in dramatic fashion in the clash between good and evil we call a cop show.

Can, in this day and age, a woman police officer arrest the mass murderer? Sure. But the more interesting of the two characters is the flawed one. We have women soldiers protecting us in Afghanistan, so they can take down an ordinary citizen.

I LOVE Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And every week, it's a woman beating the crap out of a man (sans Glory). No problem with it. And they didn't make her two-dimensional, either. They didn't make her a guy with a vagina, the stereotypical superhero just with different equipment. She was a woman. And that needs to be pointed out: there are differences and just adopting a guy's mentality is still keeping the battle lines drawn and just being accepted in the patriarchal society. I want women to be women, and men to be men, and let them mix and work together. Nothing is off-limits, and therefore, I can wear skirt, and you can wear pants. I can work as a housewife without losing my masculinity, and you can work as a soldier without losing your femininity.