The Walking Dead Season 4

[DarthTom]

Your insistence that there's no point is rather amusing since that's practically the reason so many people discuss Star Trek either from the plausibility of stories or science.

I'm curious, you've obviously put a lot of time, thought and effort into the numerous inconsistencies that exist on The Walking Dead. But IMO these are small potatoes in comparison to the one's that exist in Star Trek.

I could literally list hundreds of them but the two most recent one's that come to mind is how they use the transporter to solve numerous problems to include but not limited to de-aging and re-aging indiviudals but later forget they did that, when a similar plot problem arises.

And of course the 100's of magical engineering solutions of the week only to be yet forgotten again when a like situation arises.

And talk about plot problems, in Star Trek V [film] they travel to the center of the galaxy in a matter of hours yet it takes Voyager 75 years to go home?

Oh and did you even see the film Star Trek Nemesis - talk about plot inconsistencies with earlier episodes

1. Data has an emergency transporter but in TNG they had armband transporters in several episodes.

2. The Remens - what the fuck?

3. Oh and the Remens are sensitive to light but apparently the Federation is short on light bulbs


Gotta love, "gravity plating," that is only used one time in Enterprise to stop intruders when it could have been used like dozens of times before.

My point is - and as others have pointed out - TWD is fiction. Well written and acted fiction IMO that runs circles around many TNG, DS9, and Enterprise episodes in terms of consistency problems.

If you have so many consistency issues with TWD how possibly can you even tolerate a single Trek episode?

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, dude, you're WAY over thinking this. It's a TV-show it's meant to be fictional and as long as it stays internally consistent there should be no problems and by and large TWD has done this. It's also done a good job of suspending disbelief and mostly not stressing that suspension. Yeah, there's a lot of problems in the show when it comes to real-world biology, neuroscience, ballistics and other areas. But, so what? I enjoy the show.

You obviously are watching it hoping to get an accurate lesson in neurology. So.... good luck with that?

 

[DarthTom]

Yeah, dude, you're WAY over thinking this. It's a TV-show it's meant to be fictional and as long as it stays internally consistent there should be no problems and by and large TWD has done this.

The only internal inconsistency I've seen in TWD thus far is that the walkers are sometimes a threat and other times not.

Oh and Michonne is as fast as the Flash in terms of getting on top of buildings and retrieving pictures of Rick and Lori for Carl.

 

[Relayer1]

I've got to episode 4.8 (Too Far Gone) and I've put it on twice, then turned it off again almost immediately.

I can't stand David Morrissey, I can't stand The Governor and that whole terminally predictable Woodbury storyline and I can't stand any more tedious time spent with the main cast stuck at the prison. Do they move on and progress the story at any point in the near future ?

I am reluctant to quit having watched over three seasons, but I may well be done with this show...

 

[Trekker4747]

4x8 was the mid-season finale. The show has not returned yet (comes back first Sunday in February.) So hard to say where the series goes from here.

I would recommend watching the episode it resolves some on-going plot threads and sets up where the series is going in the next part of the season.

 

[sojourner]

LOL. If you hate the Governor, then 4.8 is definitely the episode you need to see the end of.

 

[Relayer1]

I was hoping the comics would give an indication of where it's heading. I might as well grit my teeth and get through that one episode anyway.

I'll decide whether to watch the rest after I've checked out the posts here, but I'm not hopeful.

 

[sojourner]

4.8 is one of the most faithful to the comic episodes barring the original pilot.

 

[Scout101]

I'm curious, you've obviously put a lot of time, thought and effort into the numerous inconsistencies that exist on The Walking Dead. But IMO these are small potatoes in comparison to the one's that exist in Star Trek.

I could literally list hundreds of them but the two most recent one's that come to mind is how they use the transporter to solve numerous problems to include but not limited to de-aging and re-aging indiviudals but later forget they did that, when a similar plot problem arises.

And of course the 100's of magical engineering solutions of the week only to be yet forgotten again when a like situation arises.

You try this bad analogy every time someone questions things, but is really IS bad. Big difference:

Star Trek is set in the (relatively) distant future. It's using magical future technology. Dumb and inconsistent at times, for sure. But since the Transporter doesn't exist at the moment, kinda hard to say how it does or doesn't work. (I can't speak to people forgetting the magical solution they used the previous week, just bad writing either in the 2nd week, or bad writing that needed the super-magical fix to get out of in the first place). With what they've shown us about the transporter, it's not even really a good transportation device, it should really be by FAR their ultimate weapon. Doesn't get used that way, because it makes the story too hard to tell. But anyway...

TWD gets less slack about goofs like this because it's set NOW (give or take a couple years, forget when the outbreak started). A star trek character can use a flying car, TWD cannot. Not even if they speak technobabble first. Since we're not talking about random quantum physics, but things like basic anatomy and biology, it's easier for us to nitpick and question what TWD is doing; we UNDERSTAND it.

Zombies are fun to watch from a horror standpoint (or analogy for all sorts of fun stuff), but are too stupid to exist as a real life concept. And at best, whatever pretend flavor or rabies (or whatever) would burn itself out too quickly to be sustained over the timeframe TWD is using. Just simple things like it being summer in Georgia would start making them just explode in the heat due to how the body works. And there aren't large enough pockets of survivors to keep repopulating the Zombie species, so you've got a massive herd of several year old zombies that just would be falling apart, and nothing to replace them with outside of a random small group. A few years down the road, it would all be over, and only new thing would be to remember to stab your loved ones in the head when they die (or first responders could do it at an accident scene).

We've gone down this road too many times to keep reposting the argument, but zombies are a dumb long-term concept. best we can do is enjoy it for what it is, and hope they at least stay consistent with what they've established...

 

[sojourner]

Nobody was arguing the long term aspects. Merely that they are internally consistent to the show, unlike transporters in Star Trek. For example, do transporters disassemble you or do you stay whole and conscious throughout the transport? we've seen both, so which is it? That's a failure of internal consistency.

To take Robbiesan's arguement and apply it to another franchise, The Force doesn't exist in the real world, so why not have the humans have marsupial pouches? Why doesn't Darth Vader sing acapella? It would break suspension of disbelief.

 

[DarthTom]

We've gone down this road too many times to keep reposting the argument, but zombies are a dumb long-term concept. best we can do is enjoy it for what it is, and hope they at least stay consistent with what they've established...

The point was future world or not, Star Trek has equally if not a greater difficulty staying consistent within it's own dogma than TWD.

In one episode the transporters in the cargo bay are on independent systems and can be used when the ships power is down and on another the whole damn system shuts down.

In one series the Enterprise can travel 10,000's of light years in a matter of hours [Trek V] and in another episode it's impossible and takes decades.

At least with TWD the zombies aren't fast one episode and then slow another. And their explination as to why they became less dangerous individually and moreso this season as a horde was at least plausible.

And regarding you decomposition argument - well we just accept in TWD that there is:

1. An inexhaustible supply of zombies in middle GA
2. Zombies don't decompose in TWD universe.

[BTW for all the reasons you mention World Z is a much more plausible scenario on what might happend but if you like zombie fiction TWD is all we got right now.]

I except Trek for its failings and can enjoy one episode/film at a time despite the multitude of inconsistencies with other cannon on the show ... and I can suspend my disbelief on TWD and accept the dead come back to life.

But for a presumed Trek fan to criticize TWD because if inconsistencies within the show is laughable to me.

 

[Robbiesan]

Watching The Walking Dead and enjoying it is like watching "pro-wresting" during the early seventies. One was simultaneously laughing at the absurdity of it, watching the trainwreck of ersatz sport, and the bizarre cultural phenomena simultaneously.

Sorry, when a writer creates an unstoppable horde with no discernable attachment to reality i.e. no energy developed, no breathing, no brain activity, no rotting away and disintergrating in the super hot Georgia heat like any corpse would, then it's as fake as it gets. It's bad writing all around, but entertaining.

If you're going to slam Star Trek in such a wholesale way on a Star Trek forum, man on man you're going to take the heat. And it's hardly a fair analogy since I'll take the rules of the Star Trek universe practically any day over the confounding illogic of The Walking Dead. At least some rules of physics and biology exist in the former.

We actually have another topic on Star Wars and Star Trek where I've discussed my thoughts about the relative lack of science on the former. Aerodynamic flying of X Wing fighters in outer space makes zero sense. And Jar Jar Binks practically brought the franchise to the absurdity level.

 

[DarthTom]

If you're going to slam Star Trek in such a wholesale way on a Star Trek forum, man on man you're going to take the heat. And it's hardly a fair analogy since I'll take the rules of the Star Trek universe practically any day over the confounding illogic of The Walking Dead. At least some rules of physics and biology exist in the former.

You mean like the real life biology where Khan's magical blood that can also bring the dead back to life?

 

[Robbiesan]

If you're going to slam Star Trek in such a wholesale way on a Star Trek forum, man on man you're going to take the heat. And it's hardly a fair analogy since I'll take the rules of the Star Trek universe practically any day over the confounding illogic of The Walking Dead. At least some rules of physics and biology exist in the former.

You mean like the real life biology where Khan's magical blood that can also bring the dead back to life?

I'm pretty sure that lots of Star Trek fans have discussed that and continue to discuss that within a topic of Star Trek and in particular even whole topics on that particular film.

But if it entertains you, I'll continue to engage you and discuss Khan's magical blood here as long as you make it relevant to The Walking Dead.

Meanwhile, I'll feel free to intelligently discuss the numerous nonsensical examples of not being able to suspend disbelief for The Walking Dead. If the writers would realize that the show is not a comic book, with perhaps higher intellectual demands, then perhaps there wouldn't be huge numbers of topics on these very things.

Each of us brings different things to discussion based upon our real-life experiences and educational training. But even a child knows corpses rot because the bacterial colonies which make up the human body, particularly in the gut, and the lack of homeostasis to maintain bodily functions, and result in decay. A good writer will fill-in-the-blanks to make at least some miniscule amount of background so it makes sense. Practically the only bit of that to happen was in the CDC scene early on.

Almost all of the practical elements of how the walkers came to be, how they were initially dealt with, their vulnerabilities, the method of contagion, etc have NOT been dealt with.

 

[DarthTom]

Each of us brings different things to discussion based upon our real-life experiences and educational training. But even a child knows corpses rot because the bacterial colonies which make up the human body, particularly in the gut, and the lack of homeostasis to maintain bodily functions, and result in decay. A good writer will fill-in-the-blanks to make at least some miniscule amount of background so it makes sense. Practically the only bit of that to happen was in the CDC scene early on.

Star Trek's technobabble explination on why physics can be broken: "An inverse takeon field, as it travels thorugh a warp bubble, permits us to reach a parallel universe."

The TWD explination as to why zombies do not decompose: No explination given.

In my opinion Trek's way to get around known physical laws is more absurd than TWD.

But it's a matter of opinion.

 

[sojourner]

I'm pretty sure that lots of Star Trek fans have discussed that and continue to discuss that within a topic of Star Trek and in particular even whole topics on that particular film.

But if it entertains you, I'll continue to engage you and discuss Khan's magical blood here as long as you make it relevant to The Walking Dead.

Meanwhile, I'll feel free to intelligently discuss the numerous nonsensical examples of not being able to suspend disbelief for The Walking Dead. If the writers would realize that the show is not a comic book, with perhaps higher intellectual demands, then perhaps there wouldn't be huge numbers of topics on these very things.

Each of us brings different things to discussion based upon our real-life experiences and educational training. But even a child knows corpses rot because the bacterial colonies which make up the human body, particularly in the gut, and the lack of homeostasis to maintain bodily functions, and result in decay. A good writer will fill-in-the-blanks to make at least some miniscule amount of background so it makes sense. Practically the only bit of that to happen was in the CDC scene early on.

Almost all of the practical elements of how the walkers came to be, how they were initially dealt with, their vulnerabilities, the method of contagion, etc have NOT been dealt with.

And yet, having said all that, TWD has kept to the internal rules of how zombies work in the setting, where as Star Trek has failed in numerous ways to play by it's own rules. Your criticism of TWD while giving Trek a pass for worse transgressions is hypocritical.

 

[Robbiesan]

And yet, having said all that, TWD has kept to the internal rules of how zombies work in the setting, where as Star Trek has failed in numerous ways to play by it's own rules. Your criticism of TWD while giving Trek a pass for worse transgressions is hypocritical.

If TWD spawns numerous series and films and episodes in excess of 700, then you can bet inconsistencies will be there.

The show demands suspension of basic logic from the first episode. Not all zombie genre demands that like 28 Days Later. At least there it was transformed into rage as a contagion side effect resulting in loss of humanity and not animated corpses.

While illogical, the French have made two zombie genre forms of entertainment i.e. Les Revenants and the subsequent tv series. Both have the same problems but at least the writing was better and the rules of those universes were explained minimally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Returned
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4cY1246AWk[/yt]

I think fans watch the show for many reasons, but chiefly because the actors who possess likeable qualities in spite of the writing and the genre. They go to watch Daryl or Maggie because of identification within an apocalyptic/dystopic situation. Maybe some people just like watching random violent inflicted deaths and the grotesque???

 

[Thestral]

Simon Pegg on why zombies should always be slow:

More significantly, the fast zombie is bereft of poetic subtlety. As monsters from the id, zombies win out over vampires and werewolves when it comes to the title of Most Potent Metaphorical Monster. Where their pointy-toothed cousins are all about sex and bestial savagery, the zombie trumps all by personifying our deepest fear: death. Zombies are our destiny writ large. Slow and steady in their approach, weak, clumsy, often absurd, the zombie relentlessly closes in, unstoppable, intractable.
However (and herein lies the sublime artfulness of the slow zombie), their ineptitude actually makes them avoidable, at least for a while. If you're careful, if you keep your wits about you, you can stave them off, even outstrip them - much as we strive to outstrip death. Drink less, cut out red meat, exercise, practice safe sex; these are our shotguns, our cricket bats, our farmhouses, our shopping malls. However, none of these things fully insulates us from the creeping dread that something so witless, so elemental may yet catch us unawares - the drunk driver, the cancer sleeping in the double helix, the legless ghoul dragging itself through the darkness towards our ankles

But even a child knows corpses rot because the bacterial colonies which make up the human body, particularly in the gut, and the lack of homeostasis to maintain bodily functions, and result in decay.

Maybe in the 24th century, where your average 10 year old is meant to know calculus.

Almost all of the practical elements of how the walkers came to be, how they were initially dealt with, their vulnerabilities, the method of contagion, etc have NOT been dealt with.

Indeed. Because vulnerabilities (destroy the brain) aside, nobody cares and it doesn't matter. That's not the story it's trying to tell.

So long as Magic A remains Magic A, that's enough.

 

[Robbiesan]

Well, maybe that's why some fans find zombies frightening. Others find them frightening because based upon TWD everyone becomes one. That implies doom, terrible alienation, loss, hopelessness, etc. We're not just chased by monsters, we become monsters ourselves. It lurks below our skin.

At some point it doesn't create fear, it's just a bodycount of increasing amounts, deaths by unique manner, and even breaking standards by imperiling helpless infants. At that point it's just campy and nonfrightening only disgusting. Not disgust because of rot, disgust that the writers can't write better to provoke fear or be creative enough to setting up a mytharc.

Then the show becomes essentially a retrospective of the old Eerie and Creepy comics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eerie

 

[Trekker4747]

I don't find zombies frightening. The biggest "threat" they really pose in TWD is their getting all clumped together. That's all the scary thing they have going for them is numbers. And it seems like there's good ways to stay safe from them considering:

Shane and the quarry lake group stayed pretty well protected from when they got together when the shit hit the fan until they decided to leave for a better location. (When it seemed the Walkers were getting closer.)

Herschel and his family stayed on the farm pretty well protected between the outbreak and when the horde came down. (Which, granted, probably only amounted to maybe a month or two.)

The entire group managed to last the entire winter between S2 and S3 without incident.

Woodbury managed to survive very well while even maintaining a quality of life similar to what was before and had it not been for the Governor's focus on the prison group/Andrea and the eventual altercation between the two it'd still be there.

The prison managed to survive pretty good from it's establishment until the final encounter with The Governor which amounts to a few months. The sickness had an impact for sure, as well as the hordes at the dog-run. But, by and large, a good situation.

We've seen them come across other people/groups who've managed to survive pretty well with less numbers or less ideal conditions than our group.

So it seems the Walkers are more of an occasional annoyance in the TWD universe where the threat really seems to be more from other humans.