Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

[Dukhat]

Anyone else think that Kirk's death scene was the result of someone in the creative team misunderstanding what it meant when they were told that Kirk should die on a bridge?

If the writers had want to do it properly why not pick Miramanee or Edith Keeler as the woman Kirk consider giving up his career for. And they could have asked either of the actual actresses who played these characters to return. I believe they still look pretty good for their age.
In my fangirl eyes I can see New York in perhaps the 60s where Edith Keeler and Kirk are working together to help the homeless. They have a couple of grown-up kids (one is David) and Spock and McCoy visit occasionally through the City On the Edge of Forever to keep in touch (I'm such a sap I know). I think this would be more Kirk's fantasy. And there are probably a thousand other more satisfactory fantasies than that shown in GEN.

1. Joan Collins would never appear in a Star Trek movie.

2. Kirk was only emotionally attached to Miramanee during the amnesia where he thought he was Kirok. Granted, he did stay with her until she died, but he was probably doing it out of a sense of commiseration, not true love, at that point.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

They wouldn't have had to actually show Edith, just as they didn't actually show What's-Her-Face. Going back to be with Edith is a beautiful idea, and it would have worked at least as well as what we got, since what we got wasn't based on anything at all, really. Nexus-Edith wouldn't have really existed, so in fact not showing her at all would really have been indicated. The sentiment would have been different, to disengage after years of living a fantasy, as opposed to getting things right by replaying pivotal events in his life, but in effect overall the same basic idea of returning to reality instead of indulging in an implosion of navel-gazing.

I don't know what the contracts say, but I suppose that Ellison might have been due some compensation for using Edith, in which case perhaps that would have been considered a show-stopper.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I don't know what the contracts say, but I suppose that Ellison might have been due some compensation for using Edith, in which case perhaps that would have been considered a show-stopper.

You could be right. On the other hand, if the "shadowy" character had simply been referred to as Edith, with no further clarification, could that have been enough to get around the problem?

And everyone always mentions this royalty issue, but how much money are we realistically talking about? It doesn't seem as if it could be enough to be a show-stopper...

 

[Silvercrest]

I just watched Generations again for the first time in several years.

And, as always, this strikes me as the worst possible way to do a TOS / TNG crossover.

Worst possible? No, I'd say "Flashback" on VOY is in the running for that one. (Okay, TOS/TNG-era, but still.)

 

[KarmicCurse]

I always thought the movie should have ended where we met the TNG crew, in the holodeck picking up where they left off in the sailing ship program - but this time with Kirk joining in for a bit. Imagine a conversation between Kirk and Picard in 18th century uniform on a tall ship!

 

[Frontier]

Generations was a FUBAR from the get go. Nothing could save it. Most of us could come up with a better plot in 20 minutes than they did. But it's 20 years ago now, so why lament it? Likewise as silly as it was at least it wasn't horrible. That wouldn't come for 8 years until "Nemesis" :P

 

[C.E. Evans]

One alternate idea I came up with not long after seeing it in the theatre was one that didn't involve the Nexus or any kind of time travel, but just a long-lived baddie (or deadly force of nature) that both the TOS and TNG crews faced in their respective eras. Sure, it wouldn't have Kirk and Picard meeting face-to-face, but it still would have been a movie that featured both captains, their Enterprises, and their crews working to save the Galaxy from the same threat--even if that took nearly a century to accomplish it.

 

[Mr Light]

Nah, you gotta have the two crews meet each and interact! That's the entire point of a crossover! And with time travel happy Star Trek, it's so ridiculously easy to do that!

 

[Dukhat]

They wouldn't have had to actually show Edith, just as they didn't actually show What's-Her-Face.

I understand that, but I was replying to the poster who mentioned having the actual actress return.

On the other hand, if the "shadowy" character had simply been referred to as Edith, with no further clarification, could that have been enough to get around the problem?

I doubt it. Ellison would find out, and he'd know damn well who "Edith" was referring to, and he'd have proof in court with COTEOF if it ever came to that.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

They wouldn't have had to actually show Edith, just as they didn't actually show What's-Her-Face.

I understand that, but I was replying to the poster who mentioned having the actual actress return.

I was replying to both of you.

On the other hand, if the "shadowy" character had simply been referred to as Edith, with no further clarification, could that have been enough to get around the problem?

I doubt it. Ellison would find out, and he'd know damn well who "Edith" was referring to, and he'd have proof in court with COTEOF if it ever came to that.

It would indeed be obvious who "Edith" was referring to. I wouldn't consider it worth the risk, anyway, to try to skate the line like that.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I doubt it. Ellison would find out, and he'd know damn well who "Edith" was referring to, and he'd have proof in court with COTEOF if it ever came to that.It would indeed be obvious who "Edith" was referring to. I wouldn't consider it worth the risk, anyway, to try to skate the line like that.

I'm not suggesting that Ellison would never find out, just that it could have been done. Pay the dang royalty (as I said, it could not have been a budget-busting amount) and go with it.

Just imagine how we, as fans, would have felt upon seeing Picard arrive in the nexus, standing in the street with that boxing poster behind him...

Thematically, wouldn't that have, in effect, brought the viewer into the nexus as well?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ Part of what you've attributed to me was said by Dukhat.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

^ Part of what you've attributed to me was said by Dukhat.

Sorry about that. I messed up the multi-quote!

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Likewise as silly as it was at least it wasn't horrible.

I offer Exhibit A to counter this statement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWBmaKk32fE

 

[Commishsleer]

I doubt it. Ellison would find out, and he'd know damn well who "Edith" was referring to, and he'd have proof in court with COTEOF if it ever came to that.It would indeed be obvious who "Edith" was referring to. I wouldn't consider it worth the risk, anyway, to try to skate the line like that.

I'm not suggesting that Ellison would never find out, just that it could have been done. Pay the dang royalty (as I said, it could not have been a budget-busting amount) and go with it.

Just imagine how we, as fans, would have felt upon seeing Picard arrive in the nexus, standing in the street with that boxing poster behind him...

Thematically, wouldn't that have, in effect, brought the viewer into the nexus as well?

I think they should pay if that's the copyright law. I mean did they pay the writer for reusing Khan in TWOK?
But for Ellison I don't think its just about the money. And if Abrams wants to use some aspects of COTEOF on the next movie then I think he should negotiate with Ellison and to see if its monetary or philosophically possible. I mean Ellison could demand things like final say over the dialog or something and thats probably not viable.

As for Joan Collins - I'm wondering why she wouldn't appear in a Star Trek movie 20 years ago. Has she stated that she hated the episode that much? I think actresses of a certain age would be happy for movie roles. Still it wouldn't have had to be Joan Collins. It just would have been cool if it was.

 

[Armored Saint]

They have a couple of grown-up kids (one is David)

Too much logical. David is undoubtedly the biggest Kirk's wound and it was freshly reopened when the Nexus swallowed him. (And the writers wouldn't have to burn the Picard's family).

 

[Khan 2.0]

Joan Collins appearing in generations wouldve been ridiculous

 

[2takesfrakes]

Malcolm McDowell's performance in Generations is a lot of fun to watch. The cast looks GREAT in this feature, that's another thing I love about it - the girls, especially. Gates McFadden looks quite lovely. But ... this should've been a NEXT GENERATION movie, without William Shatner insinuating himself into it, at all. I suspect that if Soran had been purely a TNG villian, without having to deal with Kirk, at all, the first NEXT GENERATION movie would've been glorious, even with The Nexus still involved. That iconic image of Soran standing on the scaffolding, awaiting the tsunami that is The Nexus looming towards him, and turning the sky into a fiery cauldron is totally memorable and one that has always stayed with me. Without Kirk's involvement in the story, GENERATIONS would require few modifications to be a solid story, in its own right - and possibly one of STAR TREK's most solid entries.

 

[Commishsleer]

Joan Collins appearing in generations wouldve been ridiculous

Why?
Was it terrible having Montalban in TWOK?

 

[Robert Comsol]

But ... this should've been a NEXT GENERATION movie, without William Shatner insinuating himself into it, at all.

I concur. It spoiled the outrageously beautiful farewell of the old crew in TUC and its beginning is obviously a Bill Shatner vehicle too reminscient of ST V (and not to mention the contradiction it created because of Scotty's assumption in "Relics" that Kirk had come to his rescue).

While not established in TNG, I could very well imagine that Captain Picard was a formidable chess game player, too (like the Kirk in early TOS). IMHO, that would have been something: Picard plays a game of chess with Kirk and during the course slowly reveals what he came for.

Instead they are riding horses - to Mount Veridian?!?

Bob