Lt. Kim

[borgboy]

My point was that the Doctor should never have been allowed to be the CMO any more than the antimatter injectors should have been allowed to be the Chief Engineer.

But yes, he was the CMO.

Even when Lynnis and Kes got their Doctorates, and Lynnis was wearing a uniform, proving that she was an Officer in some right, maybe even authentically, the Doctor in Before and After still seemed to be CMO.

Do you not think that by the end of the series the Doctor was sentient? I think he was by the end, but not at the beginning, and it's difficult to say exactly when it happened. The hologram as a metaphor for oppressed minorities was an interesting story for the series. It was thought provoking and something I still don't feel was adequetly resolved.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm sure Zimmerman is a fraud.

Starfleet would have given him a copy of the Moriarty program, and told him to make it more cow like.

 

[exodus]

Honestly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me why anyone on that ship would get promoted. There's nowhere to go. No one is leaving that ship for a very, very long time. If you kept giving promotions to everyone who deserved it*, how many years would it take until it was a ship crewed almost entirely by Lt. Commanders?**

Yep, someone has to do the grunt work.
Who do you order to do the grunt work if everyone is of equal rank?

 

[exodus]

My point was that the Doctor should never have been allowed to be the CMO any more than the antimatter injectors should have been allowed to be the Chief Engineer.

But yes, he was the CMO.

Even when Lynnis and Kes got their Doctorates, and Lynnis was wearing a uniform, proving that she was an Officer in some right, maybe even authentically, the Doctor in Before and After still seemed to be CMO.

Do you not think that by the end of the series the Doctor was sentient? I think he was by the end, but not at the beginning, and it's difficult to say exactly when it happened. The hologram as a metaphor for oppressed minorities was an interesting story for the series. It was thought provoking and something I still don't feel was adequetly resolved.

It was during "Flesh & Blood" when he put the crew of Voyager in harms way, that's when he became a full sentient being.
The EMH is programmed "To do no harm".
He's a machine, he doesn't have a choice but to obey his prime programming but in "F&B" he made a choice. He overrode his most basic programming and fully gained free will. He was no longer a slave to his programming, he was free. That's why Janeway didn't punish him, he achieved his goal as an independent fully functional being.

 

[Use of Time]

Honestly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me why anyone on that ship would get promoted. There's nowhere to go. No one is leaving that ship for a very, very long time. If you kept giving promotions to everyone who deserved it*, how many years would it take until it was a ship crewed almost entirely by Lt. Commanders?**

Yep, someone has to do the grunt work.
Who do you order to do the grunt work if everyone is of equal rank?

This whole conversation has been about Harry Kim, a senior staff bridge officer and department head. He is not a grunt. Shouldn't he maybe outrank the grunts in order to set himself apart as a senior officer on the ship? I'm not try trying to argue with you but at some point logic should take over.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The things about the Doctor is that his penis is reattachable.

He can be periodically castrated for certain periods depending on the intensity of his crimes.

However.

EMH: Captain?
JANEWAY: Doctor. I'd hoped I could attribute your behaviour to tampering.
EMH: My programming hasn't been altered.
JANEWAY: Not according to the diagnostics.
EMH: I never intended to put Voyager in danger. If nothing else, you have to believe that.
JANEWAY: Oh, I believe it, but if there's one thing I'm sure of it's that things don't always happen the way we intend. (EMH hands over his mobile emitter) I don't understand.
EMH: If I weren't your only Doctor I imagine you'd confine me to the Brig. Confiscating my emitter would be an equivalent to punishment.
JANEWAY: I'm not sure that's appropriate.
EMH: If that's not enough, you can take away my holodeck privileges, and my autonomy protocols.
JANEWAY: You mean turn back the clock to when you were first activated.
EMH: You've given me extraordinary freedom over the years. I've obviously abused it.
JANEWAY: Maybe, or maybe you've simply become as fallible as those of us who are made of flesh and blood. I'm just as responsible for allowing you to expand your programming as I am for giving technology to the Hirogen. How can I punish you for being who you are?
EMH: I don't know what to say.
JANEWAY: I'd like a complete report on your away mission.
EMH: You'll have it.

By blanket pardoning the doctor, she pardoned her own behaviour.

Kathryn has no problem with hypocrisy, but she did frakk up worse than he did, and it wasn't worth applying a microscope tot he cock up.

besides.

The Doctor made a decision which he did not think would have a negative impact on Voyager. He's allowed to do that. Then when things started going bad, he had to try and make things less bad without admitting that he made a mistake.... And then then everything got worse.

I don't see that as proof of sentience.

 

[Melakon]

Even PFC Gomer Pyle was only in charge of people below his rank, and they always wound up horsehockying him into doing the work himself.

 

[exodus]

Honestly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me why anyone on that ship would get promoted. There's nowhere to go. No one is leaving that ship for a very, very long time. If you kept giving promotions to everyone who deserved it*, how many years would it take until it was a ship crewed almost entirely by Lt. Commanders?**

Yep, someone has to do the grunt work.
Who do you order to do the grunt work if everyone is of equal rank?

This whole conversation has been about Harry Kim, a senior staff bridge officer and department head. He is not a grunt. Shouldn't he maybe outrank the grunts in order to set himself apart as a senior officer on the ship? I'm not try trying to argue with you but at some point logic should take over.

So what is a Ensign on a ship full of Lt.?

 

[AgentCoop]

Yep, someone has to do the grunt work.
Who do you order to do the grunt work if everyone is of equal rank?

Maybe Janeway could make up new ranks so she can keep promoting people while avoiding this problem.

"Mr. Paris, I hereby promote you to Super Duper Lieutenant."

 

[exodus]

Yep, someone has to do the grunt work.
Who do you order to do the grunt work if everyone is of equal rank?

Maybe Janeway could make up new ranks so she can keep promoting people while avoiding this problem.

"Mr. Paris, I hereby promote you to Super Duper Lieutenant."

"Computer, charge the Photo Canon!!"

 

[Guy Gardener]

Honestly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me why anyone on that ship would get promoted. There's nowhere to go. No one is leaving that ship for a very, very long time. If you kept giving promotions to everyone who deserved it*, how many years would it take until it was a ship crewed almost entirely by Lt. Commanders?**

Yep, someone has to do the grunt work.
Who do you order to do the grunt work if everyone is of equal rank?

This whole conversation has been about Harry Kim, a senior staff bridge officer and department head. He is not a grunt. Shouldn't he maybe outrank the grunts in order to set himself apart as a senior officer on the ship? I'm not try trying to argue with you but at some point logic should take over.

Logic? Don't be a priss.

There are plenty of enlisted crewmen that have a completely different rank structure that are all completely below harry in the chain of command.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfleet_ranks

Words like crewman 3rd class, or master chief petty officer.

(It's changed behind the scenes a couple times.)

On a US Navel Vessel today the ratio of Enlisted to Officers is 9:1. But because of automation( and self cleaning) the ratio of enlisted to officers on a Starfleet vessel would probably be closer to 3:1.

 

[Melakon]

. . .US Navel Vessel.. .

I'm not going to say anything, since you might be somewhere on an island that grows oranges. Anyway, for some reason, people already think I'm a Nazi.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I do live on an island.

We grow sheep.

 

[Use of Time]

. . .US Navel Vessel.. .

I'm not going to say anything, since you might be somewhere on an island that grows oranges. Anyway, for some reason, people already think I'm a Nazi.

I thought of you today while watching "Patterns of Force." I had never realized that what was what your avatar represented.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Considering what Teacake called me yesterday... I'd rather be a NAZI than a Ginger.

 

[Melakon]

"Ginger" might have some Aussie meaning known only to them.

@ Use of Time: Don't think of me, think of Skip. The avatar could have been anyone, was just trying to think of a character not already taken. The idea for the avatar came afterward, because I had first noticed him before Trek, and wanted people to know about him as well. Eventually I may wind up adding a profile entry describing the images, as I've only been here a year and had around a half dozen comments about it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

(Red-headed silly.)

If you really want to make people think that you're from the Common Wealth, pronounces it thus: Ging (rhymes with sing (a song).) -ah, but saying the word the same as the root/spice is fine too.

Oh look at me, spreading hate internationally, mother would be so proud.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

You are giving away all the secrets.

 

[Guy Gardener]

In a case of us vs. them, it's still everyone vs. the French.

 

[exodus]

Considering what Teacake called me yesterday... I'd rather be a NAZI than a Ginger.

Ok, Nazi.
J/k

Here's the thing, if senior bridge staff are dept. heads then explain why Paris reports to Lt. Rollins? Tom tells B'elanna that he submits his Con reports to a Lt Rollins in "Dreadnaut". Tom reports to someone else, yet Tom is senior staff.