The Night Of The Doctor

[Alidar Jarok]

^ Isn't the quote that you'll see "two more" regenerations?

What? I get sick, don't check the forums for two days, and PAUL FUCKING MCGANN COMES BACK?

Clearly you need to get sick more often.

Sweet mother of mercy! That was great! Had an old-Who feel to it, too. Now....who thinks they kept someone else under wraps too?

I didn't think they'd get someone cool to replace Matt Smith and they got Peter Capaldi.
I didn't think we'd ever see another lost episode and we got two stories.
I didn't think we'd ever see Paul McGann again and we did.

So I think I will abstain from thinking from now on.

No, keep thinking things can't happen.

OK, I'll stop now

You know though, I do find it a bit of a cheat that the Doctor who did this terrible thing wasn't REALLY the Doctor. To me, part of the fascination with this character is that he's overall a very good man who wants and tries desperately to do the right thing and resolve things peacefully. The Time War was always played out as the one time he had to put his morality aside for the greater good and do something he never thought he could. He did it, this good man, and that's why it's haunted him for so long now in NuWho. But to take that away, or water it down at least, by saying, "well, it wasn't REALLY the Doctor, it was a special version that did it" excises the responsibility and the guilt. We'll have to wait and see to what degree, but either way it's a cheat in order for him to remain as unsullied as possible when it should really be completely on his shoulders and conscience, not just sort of. I think it detracts then from 9 and 10's pain in their runs.

Well, 9 and 10's pain is real, so, as much as they try to justify it to themselves as him being a different person, he still is the same person - he just has a different title and I think even they realize that. They did those acts and had to make those decisions. We'll have to see how Hurt is portrayed, but I suspect he isn't going to be the Master, he'll be plagued by his conscience the whole time.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Or he's just saying there are two in order to conceal a third. We know his statements aren't always truthful. Anyway, we'll know in eight days whether or not Eccleston appears in "The Day of the Doctor," so I don't feel any great urge to dwell on speculation or argument. Easier just to wait and see what happens, since it won't be long now.

And bear in mind there's another minisode classfied by the BBFC to appear on the DVD/BR, so it depends whether that's a thing for tonight's Children In Need (there's a Dr Who element between 7:30 and 8), in which case it won't be the end of Hurt and beginning of Eccles, or a Red Button epilogue to the special, in which case it might be.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Late to the party, but...

WOW

WOW

WOW!!

Did Not Sere That Coming!

Amazingly cool, and I would be so there for a series of 8th Doctor (and kinda sad RTD didn't go down that road).

RTD wanted to use him, actually, but the BBC vetoed him on it early on.

Are you sure? I recall reading an interview with RTD where he basically said 'look, Paul is brilliant, but I had a specific concept of how I wanted my Doctor to be and he didn't fit it.'

Of course, that could've been mere diplomacy on his part or keeping the bosses sweet.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I'd just call it the article writer's choice of words and nothing more. We know from the "Night of the Doctor" credits that Hurt's character is called "The War Doctor."

I wasn't thinking of it as a title like "War Doctor", but maybe a description of the nature of the character.

It's how he was named in the credits -- "John Hurt as the War Doctor" -- and that makes it an official designation, at least unless we learn otherwise next Saturday.

Like, maybe it indicates he will change back to McGann, making Hurt more of an "echo".

Wishful thinking. Ohila stated unambiguously that the Eighth Doctor died. She was able to bring him back for four minutes, long enough to let him regenerate, and was able to use Sisterhood potions to guide what form that regeneration took, but this was definitively the end of his life. Hurt is not an "echo," he's a full-on incarnation. He's the Doctor's actual ninth life, the incarnation between McGann and Eccleston.

I mean, look at that final shot. When McGann regenerates, he has the face of the young John Hurt. Clearly the War Doctor was around for a long time, long enough to grow old, which suggests that he lived longer than any other incarnation except the First Doctor. How can that be called an "echo"?

How many years does it take for a Timelord to look that much older? That would change the Doctors age quite a lot, unless he's ignoring those years as well as the War Doctor incarnation.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I don't think Timelords age at a constant humanlike rate.

But judging by how little 11 changed in over 200 years.. a long time.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I wasn't thinking of it as a title like "War Doctor", but maybe a description of the nature of the character.

It's how he was named in the credits -- "John Hurt as the War Doctor" -- and that makes it an official designation, at least unless we learn otherwise next Saturday.

Like, maybe it indicates he will change back to McGann, making Hurt more of an "echo".

Wishful thinking. Ohila stated unambiguously that the Eighth Doctor died. She was able to bring him back for four minutes, long enough to let him regenerate, and was able to use Sisterhood potions to guide what form that regeneration took, but this was definitively the end of his life. Hurt is not an "echo," he's a full-on incarnation. He's the Doctor's actual ninth life, the incarnation between McGann and Eccleston.

I mean, look at that final shot. When McGann regenerates, he has the face of the young John Hurt. Clearly the War Doctor was around for a long time, long enough to grow old, which suggests that he lived longer than any other incarnation except the First Doctor. How can that be called an "echo"?

How many years does it take for a Timelord to look that much older? That would change the Doctors age quite a lot, unless he's ignoring those years as well as the War Doctor incarnation.

The Doctor is clearly much older than 1100 or whatever it is now. Certainly much older than the 900 or so years often quoted. I always liked the Tom Baker era statement that he's forgotten how old he is. It's entirely possible he decided to pick a year to start counting again, though (and perhaps the War Doctor has something to do with that).

 

[Photoman15]

Didn't 4 say he was lik 749 or something?
If he did, then 8.5 living as long as young Hurt to old Hurt may reconcile 10's 90x age.

 

[Christopher]

The Doctor's age has never been reported consistently, and the Ninth Doctor's claim that he was 900-ish clashed with the Seventh's claim of being over 950. Here's a Wiki article about the inconsistent evidence:

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor's_age

Moffat has said in interviews that he believes the Doctor doesn't remember how old he is -- and really, how could he meaningfully measure it? -- and just picked a number as a guess or a placeholder.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

How can the Doctor admit that he fought in the Time War, and that he ended it all, but ignore the years he spent as the Warrior fighting in the said war? Isn't that counter-intuitive?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

How can the Doctor admit that he fought in the Time War, and that he ended it all, but ignore the years he spent as the Warrior fighting in the said war? Isn't that counter-intuitive?

That's the level where "The Night of the Doctor" falls down for me. McGann's Doctor dies with an "ends justify the means" moment and that doesn't tarnish the reputation of that incarnation, but the apparent centuries where the War Doctor does what he was born to be does?

 

[Romulan_spy]

That's the level where "The Night of the Doctor" falls down for me. McGann's Doctor dies with an "ends justify the means" moment and that doesn't tarnish the reputation of that incarnation, but the apparent centuries where the War Doctor does what he was born to be does?

Well, we don't know exactly all that the war doctor does. Perhaps, he went too far in his actions. Perhaps, he engaged in a preemptive "scorched earth" policy where he wiped out entire planets and civilization just to deny them from the Daleks? That would pretty extreme. Plus, we know that he engaged the Moment that ended the Time War by wiping out both Daleks and Time Lords. Committing genocide against your own civilization even if it is to end an apocalyptic war, would still be a very traumatic event.

Plus, we know from our own wars on Earth that veterans can fell great remorse at their actions even though they know the war gave them no choice.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

That's the level where "The Night of the Doctor" falls down for me. McGann's Doctor dies with an "ends justify the means" moment and that doesn't tarnish the reputation of that incarnation, but the apparent centuries where the War Doctor does what he was born to be does?

Some people believe that soldier is an honorable profession, though most people agree that pillaging, raping and genocide are not honorable at all.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

That's the level where "The Night of the Doctor" falls down for me. McGann's Doctor dies with an "ends justify the means" moment and that doesn't tarnish the reputation of that incarnation, but the apparent centuries where the War Doctor does what he was born to be does?

Some people believe that soldier is an honorable profession, though most people agree that pillaging, raping and genocide are not honorable at all.

So the Doctor's a rapist now?

But still, I don't understand, if Hurt is the oldest Doctor yet, why would 9-onward ignore those years that he lived. By all accounts, he should be well over 1500 years old.

 

[RoJoHen]

That's the level where "The Night of the Doctor" falls down for me. McGann's Doctor dies with an "ends justify the means" moment and that doesn't tarnish the reputation of that incarnation, but the apparent centuries where the War Doctor does what he was born to be does?

Some people believe that soldier is an honorable profession, though most people agree that pillaging, raping and genocide are not honorable at all.

So the Doctor's a rapist now?

But still, I don't understand, if Hurt is the oldest Doctor yet, why would 9-onward ignore those years that he lived. By all accounts, he should be well over 1500 years old.

I honestly don't think the Doctor has any real grasp of his true age. Time travel and different bodies and rebooted universes...how the hell would he even keep track of his birthdays?

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I think it's just not that important to him in most of his incarnations - or he's tried every now and then and, as you might expect, gets a different number every time he does. In the link Christopher provided above, arguably the best references we have are provided by outside references from other people who would know better. So, the most accurate facts are that he was 759 in his fourth incarnation per Romana's knowledge upon joining him (and she tended to be more correct than him in most nerdy things), or 953 at the beginning of his seventh incarnation as he and the Rani were supposed to be the same age.

I've always believed that the Time Lords were somehow chronologically locked to the same time stream, so that whenever they meet it's always the same amount of time after their previous meeting, regardless of when they actually were in the universe. There is some actual evidence of this, notably when the Tenth Doctor was interacting with the Master in his final adventures and states to Wilf that he has to remain relative to the Master now that he'd met him. In any case, the only point the audience needs to understand regardless of how old the Doctor actually is, is that he's always WAY OLDER than any audience member will ever be. This conveys the point that he's wiser or more knowledgeable than anyone else, even though it will forever ruffle the feathers of nerds like us.

Mark

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Could they conceivably do a series of 6 "minisodes" to make up one 42-minute episode with McGann? Maybe in the gap between Christmas and Capaldi's first story? I'd love to see that.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Thats actually a really neat idea. Sorta like the animated episodes for The Infinite Quest and Dreamland that altogether made up for an episode each. And I'd think it might be economical, maybe.

 

[Samurai8472]

From reliable sources at Galifreybase, Meetings took place at the BBC today to discuss the popularity of the McGann short

Here's hoping for a future special

He at least deserves a team up episode with another doctor(Tennant,Smith,Capaldi).

 

[Sindatur]

From reliable sources at Galifreybase, Meetings took place at the BBC today to discuss the popularity of the McGann short

Here's hoping for a future special

He at least deserves a team up episode with another doctor(Tennant,Smith,Capaldi).

That would be a fun meeting to be a fly on the wall for.

"Jesus, have you guys seen the hits for this McGann Guy's Minisode? We need to capitalize on this"

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

The BBC acting sensibly? Why, never.

Also, that would be seriously cool. A Two Doctors-esque adventure with Capaldi and McGann... and a two-parter, to boot!