The Walking Dead Season 4

[Triskelion]

I really liked the music in this ep. Herschel's best feature in a long time or ever. As soon as I saw that gunshot on the beam, I kept waiting for Rick to scout the perimeter to find a bootprint or something. In this case, I think the idea of the gov may have been scarier than the actual cameo - but I'll take it! Hoo boy! That glimpse of next week's ep reminded me of The Stand's Randall Flagg.

Rick almost bought it twice in the ep - saved by others. The little ones are growing up. Or Rick's losing his edge. Or both?

Carol was losing the thread. Still damned cruel to exile her. I guess she left him no choice. That would be effin' scary - to start out alone again. How could you even sleep?

Great episode.

 

[Trekker4747]

I guess The Governor is the one feeding rats to the Walkers at the fence.

So you're saying he snuck in to feed the walkers from the other side of the fence? Nah, I still think it was the little girl. Especially after tonight's episode.

Yeah, I forgot that the Walkers were being fed from INSIDE the prison. I still don't think it was the girl and more likely a mole.

Also of note, the prison is very much less secure with the loss of part of the outer fence and part of the dog-run.

TREK_GOD, this is getting tedious, your anti-Rick hard-on. There's a vast, vast, VAST difference between Carol euthanizing the still living (presumably without their permission) and the group killing the dead before they turn. Burning the bodies may be SOP for Walkers or just the dead in general if they have no surviving loved ones/family/friends. Hell, Karen was burned and she STILL got a grave since they apparently cannot generate the heat needed to completely reduce a body to ash.

If Carol has said that Karen and... Dave? Had died and THEN she killed them before they turned that'd be different, but she never said that, and she likely would have said something period. She clearly killed them and then burned the evidence in an ill-conceived plan to stop the spread the disease which was already in the open and had likely already infected people as anyone who understands how diseases spread would know.

In this episode we see characters (mostly the Red-Shirts, or I guess in TWD the gray-shirts) in the advanced stages of the worst parts of the disease coughing, hemorrhaging from the eyes and mouth/nose and people weren't put-down until they had actually DIED. And even then, seemingly, after revival couldn't be accomplished (as Glenn tried CPR on the guy he was watching died.) Carol said, "fuck these guys!" and killed them. That's fucking COLD.

Back to the episode...

I really liked the focus on Hershel in this episode and seeing some shreds of his humanity and religion still being there. It makes sense he'd be reluctant to kill people who died from the disease (he's likely come back from the darker place he was at the end of Season 2, and there's a difference between killing the Walkers in the herd that invaded the farm and preemptively "killing" people he knew and who had just died.) It also seemed, to some degree, with The Bible he was giving them Last Rights, I also wonder if maybe this episode didn't make HIM lose hope a bit as he turned The Bible away at the end.

It does seem Hershel largely agrees with what Rick did re:Carol, but this makes sense as Hershel likely still trusts Rick and sees him as a de-facto leader, even if he's adjudicated. Though I doubt Daryl will be as understanding.

As for how long it took the group to get back, IIRC the veterinary school was about 70 miles or more away which would be an hour's drive, ideally. But that's on an open road on the most direct route.

Considering the direct route was blocked by the massive Walker horde they encountered two episodes ago, they were in a shitty van and not the Charger they started with and the roads haven't been maintained in almost two years, nor are they 100% clear the clinic group likely had to take another route to get back to the prison, one that took much longer to take. We also don't know entirely where the overlap or time-displacement is between the two episodes and Rick/Carol vs. the clinic group.

The Talking Dead was really good this week, as expected Adam Savage made for a great guest.

 

[Mojochi]

Yeah, Adam Savage. I'd be all into whatever weapon he could make out of scraps. lol

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Burn the dead bodies. Not kill the living. Quit conflating shit.

...and this goes out to Trekker4747, too:

They were dying. Carol was the witness--Rick was not. He did not know what he was talking about. Carol protected the group while Rick was playing farmer.

In Caleb's case, Hershel was able to see what happens for himself--and why Caleb rejected his attempt to help him. There is no help at that point and death/reanimation cannot be avoided.

Again, Karen and the other guy were already sick, and were not going to improve as they were among the first to show symptoms (after the nerd), so the disease was well on its way to ending their lives. Any objective mind knows they were not going to survive the time Daryl's party was away.

So, what we have is Rick--based on his fantasy of Carol's action (notice he imagines Karen was sleeping--not hacking/succumbing--her real condition) makes a "Ricktatorship" decision--not a word with anyone else.

You must realize Carol will return to save his ass--or be the instrument for a new level of pain.

If it happens, I cannot say he did not ask for it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

also seemed, to some degree, with The Bible he was giving them Last Rights, I also wonder if maybe this episode didn't make HIM lose hope a bit as he turned The Bible away at the end.

He's not losing hope--as in his faith; it appears he's was a bit overcome by the very thing he explained to Rick: they're always being tested. Hershel is still a man of faith, but being the only healthy adult (with any sort of medical knowledge) in the cell block, and finally watching the disease take its course/walker attack, he was hit by everything at once, knowing the Woodbury refugees in that cell were hopeless cases.

Having fought and survived this latest outbreak, he feels empowered (see: the exchange with Daryl), but I do not think he's given up on faith/the Bible as his guide to living in that world.

 

[Trekker4747]

Burn the dead bodies. Not kill the living. Quit conflating shit.

...and this goes out to Trekker4747, too:

They were dying.

Dying.

Not dead.

If you're suffering from terminal cancer your doctor doesn't come in your room and say, "Welp, no hope for you." and then sticks your IV line with a deadly drug. No, they still do whatever they can to help you, even if it's meaningless.

 

[bbjeg]

Another good episode. I look forward to the Rick/Daryl/Carol/Tyreese tension next week. I wonder if Ty would disagree with Rick's choice or back him up should Daryl choose to find her and bring her back.

I liked seeing Rick and his son reconnecting (albeit shitty circumstances) and the morale of the prison is going to be at an all time low next week, just in time for the Governor to show up.

I also agree what Hershel did was not the same as what Carol did. Carol murdered.

 

[davejames]

Really intense episode. With all the attention paid to Hershel, I thought for SURE he would be a goner at the end, which is probably exactly what the writer's wanted us to think.

And I agree, the use of music in this episode was fantastic.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, there were parts where I thought Hershel was gone -even though I think he's safe- and even Glen would be done. (And in reality should be. If he's coughing up blood like that he has serious issues he's just not going to recover from in a couple of days.)

Got to say, I'm not looking too forward to The Governor coming back but we'll see how that goes.

And, god creepy Lizzie playing the blood/mucus coughed up by Glen? Girl has some deep issues.

 

[sojourner]

As soon as I saw that gunshot on the beam, I kept waiting for Rick to scout the perimeter to find a bootprint or something.

??? huh? what do you mean by "gunshot on the beam"?

 

[JD]

Great episode. The shit definitely hit the fan this week. I also really enjoyed the focus on Hershel. What he was doing was not at all the same as what Carol did, he was working on saving people up until the very end. Carol just gave up and didn't even bother giving anyone a chance to try to save them.
Definitely agree with Trekker4747 that Lizzie has got some serious issues. I wasn't clear on what exactly she was trying to do when she was leading the one zombie through the cell block.

I did not expect the reveal of the Governor at the end. I wasn't expecting him to pop back up so soon. I figured his next appearance would be as part of a midseason cliffhanger, at the earliest.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting The Governor to show up again until the mid-season finale either, but I guess he's coming back now to set-up the cliffhanger which will likely be them abandoning the prison.

I wasn't clear on what exactly she was trying to do when she was leading the one zombie through the cell block.

In part it seemed like she was trying to save Glen by luring the Walker away but at the same time she was sort of treating the Walker like a dog with the "come here, boy!"s she was delivering.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Burn the dead bodies. Not kill the living. Quit conflating shit.

...and this goes out to Trekker4747, too:

They were dying.

Dying.

Not dead.

If you're suffering from terminal cancer your doctor doesn't come in your room and say, "Welp, no hope for you." and then sticks your IV line with a deadly drug. No, they still do whatever they can to help you, even if it's meaningless.

Bad comparison; a real world doctor has resources to try--in a timely manner--anything that will help, or in the worst case scenario, just ease pain. That's not the case in TWD world, where they have nothing, and were hit with a disease which kills quickly, and not identified.

The speed of the disease: not on the survivor's side.

With Daryl's party having to go on a long distance trip to find medicine that 1) may not be in the assumed location, or 2) may not have any effect on the disease means the sick will do exactly what we witnessed with the nerd--and the victims in yesterday's episode. In between those two examples is Karen and the other guy--two we klnow were already very sick when last seen alive--and while Daryl and the others were still at the prison.

I'm not a betting man, but I would on the idea that before this season concludes, Rick's cutthroat ass will end up needing Carol to save him--or his children. Or, she will turn on him when in his most desperate moment.

 

[Trekker4747]

Regardless you don't take someone else's life into your own hands.

 

[Pavonis]

At first I could see Carol's point, but now watching Hershel persevere in the face of the disease, it only reinforces how hasty Carol's decision to act was. This flu is not 100% fatal, nor even 100% communicable, so preemptively killing Karen and David was clearly wrong. They were contained, and the disease was already spreading. If and when they died, they could be put down, but killing them first was just completely wrong.

I wonder if Carol recalls Patrick's claim that he was feeling ill, and has realized that the flu was already spreading before she killed David and Karen. Perhaps she'll come back remorseful? I don't see her being the vengeful type - it's not productive, and she's nothing if not pragmatic nowadays.

 

[bbjeg]

What Trekker4747 said. Regardless of how long they would have lasted, Carol shouldn't have murdered them.

 

[Admiral2]

Regardless you don't take someone else's life into your own hands.

^^^You do if the action saves many more lives and it's the only viable option.

 

[bbjeg]

^That wasn't Carol's only viable option. What she did was foolish. Did she really think a virus like that could be contained after killing those two who got it from a kid who got it from inside the prison?

(After I kill these two, there is no way whatever infected that first kid can infect anyone else... Right?)

She made a rash decision. She should have quarantine them and locked the cages to be sure.

 

[Pavonis]

Sure, but did killing Karen and David save any lives? By the time she "euthanized" them, the flu was already incubating and not contained.

 

[wissaboo]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting The Governor to show up again until the mid-season finale either, but I guess he's coming back now to set-up the cliffhanger which will likely be them abandoning the prison.

I wasn't clear on what exactly she was trying to do when she was leading the one zombie through the cell block.

In part it seemed like she was trying to save Glen by luring the Walker away but at the same time she was sort of treating the Walker like a dog with the "come here, boy!"s she was delivering.

and she said something to Herchel about this one not killing Glen and she thought he "listened"

though I wondered how a walker with that thing in his mouth was going to bite anyways