IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

[Paris]

Well, I can't argue with that logic. Still, seems a bit of a jump.

Spoiler: might be considered a spoiler for #21

Snooty popular girl on campus to plotting genocide with the Romulan Seante in less than five years

Hey it's a universe where you can get the keys to the flagship of the federation as a failing cadet.

Failing? When was he failing? He was set to complete his studies a year early. He was just grounded for the whole Kobayashi Maru stunt. If anything, he exceled at the academy. According to some of the material released along side the first film, he was even instructing a combat class.

 

[Enterpriserules]

Well, I can't argue with that logic. Still, seems a bit of a jump.

Spoiler: might be considered a spoiler for #21

Snooty popular girl on campus to plotting genocide with the Romulan Seante in less than five years

Hey it's a universe where you can get the keys to the flagship of the federation as a failing cadet.

Failing? When was he failing? He was set to complete his studies a year early. He was just grounded for the whole Kobayashi Maru stunt. If anything, he exceled at the academy. According to some of the material released along side the first film, he was even instructing a combat class.

On top of this in Into Darkness it is Kirk who figures out where Khan will be next in the meeting, just by looking at some pictures, not bad!

 

[The Wormhole]

I think, thought I'm not sure, that the women is wearing a blue Starfleet shirt.

To me, it kind of looks like she's wearing an outfit similar to what Admiral Marcus and the crew of the Vengeance were wearing, which is likely the Section 31 uniform in the Abramsverse.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I think it is Mekenna from the Sulu issue

Interesting thought, but I don't know. She wasn't really villainous, just a hotheaded youth in need of life experience.

Just seemed like something a Red Squad person would do, join Section 31 because they like being in the exclusive clubs

Well they also sold Section 31 as some elite covert groups to Sulu in his Return of the Archons flashback. And considering bother of them were up for the Enterprise assignment they may have tried recruiting her when he apparently turned them down.

Remember Section 31 doesn't advertise themselves as some kind of villainous organization to people they just go on about how awesome they are for the federation and convince people to (surprisingly enough) go along with their shady stuff.

I also still think the JJverse Section 31 is keeping their above the law tendencies to themselves for the most part and are trying to be semi-legitimate and dumping the whole (unsustainable) secret organization thing.

This is why I don't think Marcus only mentioned their existence because he was going to kill Kirk seeing as how his description of the organization doesn't sound like something people would bat an eye at.

Hey it's a universe where you can get the keys to the flagship of the federation as a failing cadet.

Failing? When was he failing? He was set to complete his studies a year early. He was just grounded for the whole Kobayashi Maru stunt. If anything, he exceled at the academy. According to some of the material released along side the first film, he was even instructing a combat class.

On top of this in Into Darkness it is Kirk who figures out where Khan will be next in the meeting, just by looking at some pictures, not bad!

Actually I think it was more deduction based on Khan as John Harrison mentioned to be a top Starfleet operative engaging in a one man war on Starfleet and his choice of a non critical target to hit not exactly making sense and wondering what he was really up to, plus Spock's mentioning (while he was thinking about this) how peculiar "Harrison's" choice of a non-warp capable ship to escape was which probably further added to Kirk's suspicion that "Harrison" was up to something.

 

[datalogan]

I think the Section 31 agent at the end of the comic is Number One. That's why we didn't see her face--it would have been recognizable. And it would be in keeping with the Ongoing comics to bring out cannon characters.

Hey, I wonder if they'll make a thing out of the fact that Number One looks a lot like Christine Chapel.
[A possible explanation for why Chapel "took a deep space assignment" was that she was maintaining her Section 31 cover and duties and that she is also Number One.]

 

[datalogan]

Or it could be Sarah April . . .

 

[Christopher]

I think the Section 31 agent at the end of the comic is Number One. That's why we didn't see her face--it would have been recognizable.

Why? Nobody else's is. Although some of the guest characters in the comics have looked more or less like their Prime counterparts. (I found it odd that Commissioner Ferris had a new character design in the early pages of the "Galileo Seven" adaptation but then looked just like John Crawford in the rest of it.)

Hey, I wonder if they'll make a thing out of the fact that Number One looks a lot like Christine Chapel.

Again, no reason they should. If they have different-looking actors playing characters who look the same in-universe (Spock Prime recognized young Kirk and Scotty on sight), then by the same token, different characters played by the same actress may not be intended to look alike in-universe. Actor resemblance (or lack thereof) should not be mistaken for character resemblance, unless it's specifically referenced.

Besides, remember that "The Cage" was filmed only 2 years before the series proper but set 13 years before. So Number One would've been about a decade older than Chapel.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

Well, I can't argue with that logic. Still, seems a bit of a jump.

Spoiler: might be considered a spoiler for #21

Snooty popular girl on campus to plotting genocide with the Romulan Seante in less than five years

Hey it's a universe where you can get the keys to the flagship of the federation as a failing cadet.

Failing? When was he failing? He was set to complete his studies a year early. He was just grounded for the whole Kobayashi Maru stunt. If anything, he exceled at the academy. According to some of the material released along side the first film, he was even instructing a combat class.

One can spin doctor it anyway one wishes; an excellent cadet with both 0 experience and serious disciplinary problems getting the flagship ahead of seasoned officers is unrealistic.

 

[Paris]

Hey it's a universe where you can get the keys to the flagship of the federation as a failing cadet.

Failing? When was he failing? He was set to complete his studies a year early. He was just grounded for the whole Kobayashi Maru stunt. If anything, he exceled at the academy. According to some of the material released along side the first film, he was even instructing a combat class.

One can spin doctor it anyway one wishes; an excellent cadet with both 0 experience and serious disciplinary problems getting the flagship ahead of seasoned officers is unrealistic.

I never said it wasn't unrealistic. It definitely is unrealistic that a cadet gets to captain the flagship. What I was saying was that at no time was Kirk a "failing" cadet.

 

[Enterpriserules]

Hey it's a universe where you can get the keys to the flagship of the federation as a failing cadet.

Failing? When was he failing? He was set to complete his studies a year early. He was just grounded for the whole Kobayashi Maru stunt. If anything, he exceled at the academy. According to some of the material released along side the first film, he was even instructing a combat class.

One can spin doctor it anyway one wishes; an excellent cadet with both 0 experience and serious disciplinary problems getting the flagship ahead of seasoned officers is unrealistic.

Unless, like Pike, you see greatness in Kirk who has proved himself in the last two films to be a savant

 

[Christopher]

You want to talk about unrealistic command assignments in Trek movies? Let's see... how about dropping Admiral Kirk back down to captain and demoting Captain Decker to first officer for the V'Ger mission, rather than just having Admiral Kirk lead the mission with Decker's Enterprise as his flagship? How about giving Kirk & crew their own replacement Enterprise after they committed mutiny, sabotage, violation of restricted space, and the reckless destruction of Starfleet property? How about keeping the same command crew together in the same posts on the same ship (or its replacement) for over a quarter-century even after they've all reached captain's or commander's rank? We've already got plenty of precedent for Starfleet making command assignments in ways that by modern standards are quite capricious and illogical.

 

[Enterpriserules]

You want to talk about unrealistic command assignments in Trek movies? Let's see... how about dropping Admiral Kirk back down to captain and demoting Captain Decker to first officer for the V'Ger mission, rather than just having Admiral Kirk lead the mission with Decker's Enterprise as his flagship? How about giving Kirk & crew their own replacement Enterprise after they committed mutiny, sabotage, violation of restricted space, and the reckless destruction of Starfleet property? How about keeping the same command crew together in the same posts on the same ship (or its replacement) for over a quarter-century even after they've all reached captain's or commander's rank? We've already got plenty of precedent for Starfleet making command assignments in ways that by modern standards are quite capricious and illogical.

Well said sir. Star Trek has always played loose with the rules of a true command structure to tell it's stories. I mean Harry Kim is an ensign for 7 stinking years!

 

[Edit_XYZ]

Failing? When was he failing? He was set to complete his studies a year early. He was just grounded for the whole Kobayashi Maru stunt. If anything, he exceled at the academy. According to some of the material released along side the first film, he was even instructing a combat class.

One can spin doctor it anyway one wishes; an excellent cadet with both 0 experience and serious disciplinary problems getting the flagship ahead of seasoned officers is unrealistic.

Unless, like Pike, you see greatness in Kirk who has proved himself in the last two films to be a savant

The Kirk who let out of his cell a proven murderer/terrorist and then let him near highly sensitive equipment?
That doesn't really scream 'competent'. Quite the contrary.

You want to talk about unrealistic command assignments in Trek movies? Let's see... how about dropping Admiral Kirk back down to captain and demoting Captain Decker to first officer for the V'Ger mission, rather than just having Admiral Kirk lead the mission with Decker's Enterprise as his flagship? How about giving Kirk & crew their own replacement Enterprise after they committed mutiny, sabotage, violation of restricted space, and the reckless destruction of Starfleet property? How about keeping the same command crew together in the same posts on the same ship (or its replacement) for over a quarter-century even after they've all reached captain's or commander's rank? We've already got plenty of precedent for Starfleet making command assignments in ways that by modern standards are quite capricious and illogical.

It is a matter of degrees. The examples in this quote are hard core realism (and some, taken out of context) by comparison to nuKirk's ascension.

 

[JoeZhang]

holy fucking christ - it was an off-the-cuff gag.

 

[Enterpriserules]

The Kirk who let out of his cell a proven murderer/terrorist and then let him near highly sensitive equipment?
That doesn't really scream 'competent'. Quite the contrary.

Kirk sees aligning with Khan as the best way to save his crew, he knows he's going to be played at some point, but he also knows it's that or death for his crew and a war for the Federation because of Marcus. He gambles and it works out in the end because he also trusted in Spock, who tricks Khan. Wise moves all around.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

The Kirk who let out of his cell a proven murderer/terrorist and then let him near highly sensitive equipment?
That doesn't really scream 'competent'. Quite the contrary.

Kirk sees aligning with Khan as the best way to save his crew, he knows he's going to be played at some point, but he also knows it's that or death for his crew and a war for the Federation because of Marcus. He gambles and it works out in the end because he also trusted in Spock, who tricks Khan. Wise moves all around.

"that or death for his crew and a war for the Federation"?

This very thread presented several easy to find alternatives to these 2 options you falsely present as the only ones available (alternatives which don't involve war or all but allowing a terrorist to continue his rampage).

 

[Enterpriserules]

The Kirk who let out of his cell a proven murderer/terrorist and then let him near highly sensitive equipment?
That doesn't really scream 'competent'. Quite the contrary.

Kirk sees aligning with Khan as the best way to save his crew, he knows he's going to be played at some point, but he also knows it's that or death for his crew and a war for the Federation because of Marcus. He gambles and it works out in the end because he also trusted in Spock, who tricks Khan. Wise moves all around.

"that or death for his crew and a war for the Federation"?

This very thread presented several easy to find alternatives to these 2 options you falsely present as the only ones available (alternatives which didn't involve war or all but allowing a terrorist to continue his rampage).

Well, if it doesn't work for you that is fine. I think it works. I find that if you want to poke holes in something you can do it with anything. I look for what is good about something first. By doing that, I really enjoyed ID and the ongoing comics.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

I find that if you want to poke holes in something you can do it with anything.

This is incorrect.

About the rest of your post - fair enough.

 

[Enterpriserules]

I find that if you want to poke holes in something you can do it with anything.

This is incorrect.

About the rest of your post - fair enough.

Even the best of Trek you can poke holes in, so I do not see that as incorrect. And almost every story you can do that. Isn't that what red letter media is all about? Or "How it should have ended"?

How you approach a story will have a lot to do with whether you like it or not. I approach them positively and then let the story itself speak to me, sometimes it works and sometimes I still don't like it. Case in point: I wanted to like Prometheus, but in the end hated it; not because I wanted too but because I just thought the story sucked.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

Enterpriserules, I can name quite a few works of fiction where one can't poke holes - can't name plot holes, character dummyfing, etc.

This is true about many star trek episodes, as well - for the trekverse, excepting the fact that no one in there seems to use the technology to its full potential.