STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[yenny]

It may have been mentioned before, but can anyone confirm if either the term 'Section 31' or 'augment' is mentioned in the film..? And is there a reference to the Eugenics Wars being in the 1990's..?

I can't confirm about Section 31 and augment.

Of the the Eugenics wars? In Space Seed, it was mention had been fought in the 1990s. But in the same episode and later in ST'TWOK, Both Spock and later in Khan stated that it was fought 200 years ago of present date. With would put it being fought sometime in the 2060s-2080s.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In Space Seed, it was mention had been fought in the 1990s. But in the same episode and later in ST'TWOK, Both Spock and later in Khan stated that it was fought 200 years ago of present date. With would put it being fought sometime in the 2060s-2080s.

Like I said, if they give a specific year - like they did in TWOK - that takes precedence. Any time they say things like "200 years ago", that can be dismissed as a rounding-off.

Besides, TWOK isn't even consistent with its own self. The opening text says "In the 23rd century...", yet Khan later gives both the date of 1996 *and* mentions "200 years ago."

 

[Captrek]

If this was a complete reboot them a white Khan would be fine, however it is not.
So time travelling Romulans turned a three hundred year old Indian into a Northern European?

See - this is the problem with time travel hokum to try to hook the reboot to the old series. It always just results in a far more incoherent fictional universe than a clean restart would.

It is a clean restart. The Prime timeline of the Abrams canon is an original creation that bears a strong resemblance to the original canon. Spock Prime appearing in XI is like the 1979 Cylons appearing in NuBSG: it looks like the original but isn't.

Feel better?

 

[Xaios]

Can anyone comment on the new film's score? How does it stack up against some of the classic ST scores like TMP, TWOK and TUC?

 

[section9]

BTW, fwiu, Cumberbatch's Khan doesn't die at the end of the film, which allows him to come back for the threequel.

That's how good he is. Casting Cumberbatch was inspired, imho.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

If this was a complete reboot them a white Khan would be fine, however it is not.
So time travelling Romulans turned a three hundred year old Indian into a Northern European?

See - this is the problem with time travel hokum to try to hook the reboot to the old series. It always just results in a far more incoherent fictional universe than a clean restart would.

It is a clean restart. The Prime timeline of the Abrams canon is an original creation that bears a strong resemblance to the original canon. Spock Prime appearing in XI is like the 1979 Cylons appearing in NuBSG: it looks like the original but isn't.

Feel better?

No it's not. Spock Prime is from the future of the original timeline. This is "fact." The timelines diverged when the Kelvin was destroyed. This is "fact."

 

[Melakon]

Okay, this thread went from 10 pages to 17 while I read every page, and even though it's alluded to in Therin's non-spoiler thread, the question hasn't been asked here.

What is Alice Eve "Omagawwwwwd!"-ing about? Does she see Kirk naked or something?

And maybe Cumberbatch isn't Khan the Sikh from India, but Kahn the Jewish guy from Chelsea.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If Khanberbatch is on board the Vengeance when it crashes into Earth, then how could he survive that?

For that matter, how could Earth survive it?

 

[section9]

Right, that would mean that Khan is a fan of Chelsea in the Premiership.

Poor Khan...

 

[section9]

If Khanberbatch is on board the Vengeance when it crashes into Earth, then how could he survive that?

For that matter, how could Earth survive it?

Damon Lindelof can write his way out of anything. He can pull a baboon out of Eleanor Roosevelt's ass if he has to.

 

[Franklin]

If Khanberbatch is on board the Vengeance when it crashes into Earth, then how could he survive that?

For that matter, how could Earth survive it?

Damon Lindelof can write his way out of anything. He can pull a baboon out of Eleanor Roosevelt's ass if he has to.

While trailers obviously don't always present things in order, from what I saw in one I think Cumby is actually on the ground in SF watching the ship crash (the shot where he has a cut on his face and actually runs away from the scene). So, my bet is he's not on the ship (which is why Spock comes after him in SF).

The thing is: is Admiral Marcus aboard the crashing ship? What happens to him? Could he be the one Cumby is referring to when he says that every captain should go down with his ship?

 

[WarpFactorZ]

If Khanberbatch is on board the Vengeance when it crashes into Earth, then how could he survive that?

Seatbelt? George Kirk wasn't wearing one, after all, otherwise things might have been different.

 

[Flake]

If Khanberbatch is on board the Vengeance when it crashes into Earth, then how could he survive that?

For that matter, how could Earth survive it?

Damon Lindelof can write his way out of anything. He can pull a baboon out of Eleanor Roosevelt's ass if he has to.

While trailers obviously don't always present things in order, from what I saw in one I think Cumby is actually on the ground in SF watching the ship crash (the shot where he has a cut on his face and actually runs away from the scene). So, my bet is he's not on the ship (which is why Spock comes after him in SF).

The thing is: is Admiral Marcus aboard the crashing ship? What happens to him? Could he be the one Cumby is referring to when he says that every captain should go down with his ship?

My understanding from the trailers is that Cumberbatch is on the bridge until the ship comes to a stop and he jumps out of the broken viewscreen/window onto the rubble and makes his escape. Either that or he finds an airlock but I would assume his ship will have lost power at this point.

 

[Captrek]

For that matter, how could Earth survive it?

According to The Doomsday Machine, blowing up a Constellation class ship has an explosive yield of 97 MT, about double the Tsar Bomba. It would destroy San Francisco, but not the world.

But we know Scotty's been aboard and engaging in sabotage, so maybe he ejected or otherwise neutralized the warp core.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The thing is: is Admiral Marcus aboard the crashing ship? What happens to him? Could he be the one Cumby is referring to when he says that every captain should go down with his ship?

I assume that Khan actually kills Marcus after getting on board the Vengeance.

 

[Franklin]

Damon Lindelof can write his way out of anything. He can pull a baboon out of Eleanor Roosevelt's ass if he has to.

While trailers obviously don't always present things in order, from what I saw in one I think Cumby is actually on the ground in SF watching the ship crash (the shot where he has a cut on his face and actually runs away from the scene). So, my bet is he's not on the ship (which is why Spock comes after him in SF).

The thing is: is Admiral Marcus aboard the crashing ship? What happens to him? Could he be the one Cumby is referring to when he says that every captain should go down with his ship?

My understanding from the trailers is that Cumberbatch is on the bridge until the ship comes to a stop and he jumps out of the broken viewscreen/window onto the rubble and makes his escape. Either that or he finds an airlock but I would assume his ship will have lost power at this point.

Could be that, too. I can imagine it from a couple of shots we've seen in trailers. I wonder if he yells, "Oh, shit!" as the ship goes down. (Why not? It would be just another inside reference?)

 

[The Doctor]

For that matter, how could Earth survive it?

According to The Doomsday Machine, blowing up a Constellation class ship has an explosive yield of 97 MT, about double the Tsar Bomba. It would destroy San Francisco, but not the world.

But we know Scotty's been aboard and engaging in sabotage, so maybe he ejected or otherwise neutralized the warp core.

Well, just because a ship crashes to Earth does not mean that it also has to explode.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

If this was a complete reboot them a white Khan would be fine, however it is not.
So time travelling Romulans turned a three hundred year old Indian into a Northern European?

See - this is the problem with time travel hokum to try to hook the reboot to the old series. It always just results in a far more incoherent fictional universe than a clean restart would.

It is a clean restart. The Prime timeline of the Abrams canon is an original creation that bears a strong resemblance to the original canon. Spock Prime appearing in XI is like the 1979 Cylons appearing in NuBSG: it looks like the original but isn't.

Feel better?

I wasn't feeling bad - at least not about this. This is all academic to me because Abrams can't seem to tell a decent story, so without that most basic aspect in place, this is just a way for me to pass time commenting on something inconsequential so I can escape from worry about my father who is about to have open heart surgery.

However, your argument is flawed. This is not at all the same as nuBSG which gave a nod to the original series by having the first generation Cylons in its cleanly restarted story look like the Cylons from the original series. There was no attempt to use AU/time travel bs to connect the two stories. And for whatever problems I had with BSG as it went along - at least it bravely took its franchise somewhere more complex and more interesting than the original. Star Trek, sadly, seems headed in the opposite direction, becoming more shallow, more bland and more generic.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

My understanding from the trailers is that Cumberbatch is on the bridge until the ship comes to a stop and he jumps out of the broken viewscreen/window onto the rubble and makes his escape.

The ship crashes into the harbor, doesn't it?

 

[RAMA]

The first review is up at Rottentomatoes.com