The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

[Christopher]

There was really only one spot in the show that I thought looked really cheap: There was a shot looking out of the windshield of the vehicle Nolan & the Mayor were in, and her killer assistant swerves into view ahead of them, fishtailing and stirring up dust; that looked really videogamey.

For me it was some of the battle shots, particularly one of a Volge pulling one of the defenders off the cliff and dropping him. In that and some of the other falling shots, the way the bodies moved just didn't fit how gravity and inertia should work.

I liked that early scene when they were in the car and despite being pissed at Nolan, eventually starts singing the song with him.

That was the deftest piece of exposition in the pilot -- encapsulating their whole relationship without needing to give a word of backstory. A perfect "show, don't tell" scene.

That reminds me, who exactly shot the sheriff (lawkeeper)?

Bob Marley?

I think Eric Clapton is also a suspect.

And note that they did, in fact, not shoot the deputy.

 

[not]

That reminds me, who exactly shot the sheriff (lawkeeper)? I wasn't paying that much attention, so I couldn't tell who in the group did it. Is that person in jail, or was it overlooked?

I wasn't sure either but I thought it wasn't important in that it was accidental death. It was obvious the sheriff’s character, while likeable, was replaceable.

I’m not into the Romeo/Juliet storyline but the scheming to take over the mine appeals to me. The second engaging storyline involves the sisters and their moral divergence. Grant Bowler’s surprise reaction to their kinship hints that he was sorry to have made a pit stop at the brothel –clearly, Amanda Rosewater is a woman who isn’t interested in sloppy seconds

 

[Roshi]

You know Romeo and Juliet is not the only Shakespeare reference in that episode. Jaime Murray's character was very Lady MacBeth-ish in 95% of her scenes.

 

[not]

You know Romeo and Juliet is not the only Shakespeare reference in that episode. Jaime Murray's character was very Lady MacBeth-ish in 95% of her scenes.

I was conflicted by Stahma Tarr because she did distract the children of the man who feared being late on a payment to her husband and feeding them is symbolic too

 

[Christopher]

I wasn't sure either but I thought it wasn't important in that it was accidental death. It was obvious the sheriff’s character, while likeable, was replaceable.

Well, it wasn't important in plot terms, no, but in legal terms, we're talking the homicide of a police officer during an altercation in which firearms were discharged in public with lethal intent. It's unclear whether the shooter was acting in aggression or in self-defense. In the latter case, it would probably be manslaughter, while in the former it would be felony murder. Indeed, whoever started the gunfight (Rafe?) could be found guilty of the lawkeeper's murder even if he didn't fire the shot. There have been cases where, if person A committed a crime and person B accidentally killed person C while defending themselves against person A, it was person A who was found guilty of murder because it was A's criminal action that led to C's death.

What bugs me is that Irisa told the deputy that Nolan murdered her parents -- she even used the word "murdered" -- but the deputy didn't then try to arrest Nolan or at least protest when he was named the new lawkeeper. But then, I guess the crimes occurred outside his jurisdiction.

I was conflicted by Stahma Tarr because she did distract the children of the man who feared being late on a payment to her husband and feeding them is symbolic too

Well, she distracted them so her husband's Sensoth goon could torture the guy without the kids raising a fuss and drawing attention. It was anything but an act of kindness. That was one of the creepiest moments in the episode, the way she used a seeming act of kindness to abet in her husband's crime and cruelty, and it made her intriguingly devious.

 

[Kegg]

It isn't really. Rockne S. O'Bannon tends to get all the credit for Farscape, but it was really more its executive producers David Kemper and Richard Manning who made it the exceptional show it was.

But O'Bannon was definitely the guy who concieved the series and developed it as a concept. I can see the sense of comparing the Defiance pilot to the pilot episode of Farscape, which O'Bannon wrote - in fact, both are a little encumbered by the amount of story and character they're setting up (Defiance more so, but it's a longer pilot).

 

[not]

I wasn't sure either but I thought it wasn't important in that it was accidental death. It was obvious the sheriff’s character, while likeable, was replaceable.

Well, it wasn't important in plot terms, no, but in legal terms, we're talking the homicide of a police officer during an altercation in which firearms were discharged in public with lethal intent. It's unclear whether the shooter was acting in aggression or in self-defense. In the latter case, it would probably be manslaughter, while in the former it would be felony murder. Indeed, whoever started the gunfight (Rafe?) could be found guilty of the lawkeeper's murder even if he didn't fire the shot. There have been cases where, if person A committed a crime and person B accidentally killed person C while defending themselves against person A, it was person A who was found guilty of murder because it was A's criminal action that led to C's death.

What bugs me is that Irisa told the deputy that Nolan murdered her parents -- she even used the word "murdered" -- but the deputy didn't then try to arrest Nolan or at least protest when he was named the new lawkeeper. But then, I guess the crimes occurred outside his jurisdiction.

I was conflicted by Stahma Tarr because she did distract the children of the man who feared being late on a payment to her husband and feeding them is symbolic too

Well, she distracted them so her husband's Sensoth goon could torture the guy without the kids raising a fuss and drawing attention. It was anything but an act of kindness. That was one of the creepiest moments in the episode, the way she used a seeming act of kindness to abet in her husband's crime and cruelty, and it made her intriguingly devious.

The “intent” is as unknown as the shooter and it would be determined in a trial but the setting is the ‘Wild West’ and as such, survival and not procedural legalities are their priority.

I missed Irisa’s murder statement but wasn’t her intent to get out and head to the Artic (IIRC)? Perhaps the crimes were outside lawkeeper’s scope of power, but the fact Nolan was her caregiver (and the reason she survived childhood) may indicate he didn’t take her claim seriously.

BTW, yes Stahma Tarr is "intriguingly devious" but I think we may see her as having a ying/yang nature. I'm hating these names -they are hell to spell!

 

[Aeolusdallas]

You seem to be aware of information I do not possess from just watching the pilot.

, but yes other gems of information transmedia have been dropped into this thread.

Saying that the games are canon will be a difficult promise to keep if the show goes for ten years and the game only survives for two. The impossibility of that promise would only be made by a loon or lemming unaware about what cometh after pride.

Lucas spent 10 years swearing that all his Dark Horse Star Wars Comics were Canon, and then he started making prequels, which shot that idea to shit and questioned completely the nazi like policing of the comic book franchise up to the point.

The game is canon. This is a fact. This whole project has been designed with that in mind. However I would assume that they contingency plans should either the show or the mmo get cancelled..

.

Which is what I was afraid of, I only noticed the advertising a week before the show aired and have not played a game since 1980. Will the show fill in the blanks by actually showing us watching on Skiffy?

I assume they will fill in the story as the show continues

 

[FreezeC77]

I think there's a lot of paint by numbers in this show. I thought the pilot was filled with cliches you could see coming at you a galaxy away which made the actions of characters the plot pretty transparent and easily predictable.

I'm hoping there is more depth as the show progresses. I do like the "gangster" character and his wife even if that does hit on some past types of characters in fiction.

The main thing I question especially reading earlier and seeing the backstory. How the hell did the Earth *FIGHT* these aliens? The ships came in 2013 and apparently the war broke out in 2023.

I really don't think we have the technology to be battling multiple interstellar races and don't think that will improve much in 10 years. I'm assuming there was some sharing of technology by those seeking to settle on the Earth, but that still seems a bit farfetched to me.

I would think any fight against Aliens would be similar to Fallen Skies. Pretty much *OWNED* within a few days and then whatever fighting remains is resistance pockets.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

I wasn't sure either but I thought it wasn't important in that it was accidental death. It was obvious the sheriff’s character, while likeable, was replaceable.

Well, it wasn't important in plot terms, no, but in legal terms, we're talking the homicide of a police officer during an altercation in which firearms were discharged in public with lethal intent. It's unclear whether the shooter was acting in aggression or in self-defense. In the latter case, it would probably be manslaughter, while in the former it would be felony murder. Indeed, whoever started the gunfight (Rafe?) could be found guilty of the lawkeeper's murder even if he didn't fire the shot. There have been cases where, if person A committed a crime and person B accidentally killed person C while defending themselves against person A, it was person A who was found guilty of murder because it was A's criminal action that led to C's death.

What bugs me is that Irisa told the deputy that Nolan murdered her parents -- she even used the word "murdered" -- but the deputy didn't then try to arrest Nolan or at least protest when he was named the new lawkeeper. But then, I guess the crimes occurred outside his jurisdiction.

I was conflicted by Stahma Tarr because she did distract the children of the man who feared being late on a payment to her husband and feeding them is symbolic too

Well, she distracted them so her husband's Sensoth goon could torture the guy without the kids raising a fuss and drawing attention. It was anything but an act of kindness. That was one of the creepiest moments in the episode, the way she used a seeming act of kindness to abet in her husband's crime and cruelty, and it made her intriguingly devious.

What possible jurisdiction could Defiance have in Irisa's parents murder? It's essentially a sovereign city state.

 

[Kegg]

I missed Irisa’s murder statement but wasn’t her intent to get out and head to the Artic (IIRC)?

Antartica. And Defiance is an independent city-state whose relationship with other powers is still (in the show, anyway) unclear. Unless an Interpol exists there's really no point in arresting Nolan.

 

[not]

I wasn't sure either but I thought it wasn't important in that it was accidental death. It was obvious the sheriff’s character, while likeable, was replaceable.

Well, it wasn't important in plot terms, no, but in legal terms, we're talking the homicide of a police officer during an altercation in which firearms were discharged in public with lethal intent. It's unclear whether the shooter was acting in aggression or in self-defense. In the latter case, it would probably be manslaughter, while in the former it would be felony murder. Indeed, whoever started the gunfight (Rafe?) could be found guilty of the lawkeeper's murder even if he didn't fire the shot. There have been cases where, if person A committed a crime and person B accidentally killed person C while defending themselves against person A, it was person A who was found guilty of murder because it was A's criminal action that led to C's death.

What bugs me is that Irisa told the deputy that Nolan murdered her parents -- she even used the word "murdered" -- but the deputy didn't then try to arrest Nolan or at least protest when he was named the new lawkeeper. But then, I guess the crimes occurred outside his jurisdiction.

I was conflicted by Stahma Tarr because she did distract the children of the man who feared being late on a payment to her husband and feeding them is symbolic too

Well, she distracted them so her husband's Sensoth goon could torture the guy without the kids raising a fuss and drawing attention. It was anything but an act of kindness. That was one of the creepiest moments in the episode, the way she used a seeming act of kindness to abet in her husband's crime and cruelty, and it made her intriguingly devious.

What possible jurisdiction could Defiance have in Irisa's parents murder? It's essentially a sovereign city state.

The mayor actually spoke of forming alliances; I assumed for exchanges of goods and service but legal disputes could be part of the Defiance story

 

[RAMA]

All I kept thinking was...if they put this cool backstory in front of a David Brin, Greg Bear, etc they might have a really cool show, but they didn't quite succeed yet.

Unlike Farscape, I actually like these actors, so I'll probably stick around longer. It's the only real lasting impression of the show except for the brief prologue. I might need to rewatch it.

Why would there be 5 different terraforming machines? The aliens were going to share the planet not fight for the winning terraforming ecosystem.

There's no way a group of advanced aliens like this coming to Earth would ever result in a stalemate or victory for Earth. Yes I understand the Ark's were destroyed, but apparently battle was at a stalemate before that.

RAMA

 

[Aeolusdallas]

All I kept thinking was...if they put this cool backstory in front of a David Brin, Greg Bear, etc they might have a really cool show, but they didn't quite succeed yet.

Unlike Farscape, I actually like these actors, so I'll probably stick around longer. It's the only real lasting impression of the show except for the brief prologue. I might need to rewatch it.

Why would there be 5 different terraforming machines? The aliens were going to share the planet not fight for the winning terraforming ecosystem.

There's no way a group of advanced aliens like this coming to Earth would ever result in a stalemate or victory for Earth. Yes I understand the Ark's were destroyed, but apparently battle was at a stalemate before that.

RAMA

The Aliens are from 6 separate worlds. Packed in the STL refugee ships and working together only because they had to to escape the destruction of their home systems. Only a small number was ever awake after arrival and during the war. The vast majority died in their sleep on board their ships.
So the Humans had first over 10 years to prepare for war. (human governments saw the ships coming years before the public found out) and of course a massive advantage in numbers.
they 5 five different types of terraforming machines because the 6 humanoid races presumably planed to divide up the uninhabited world they were traveling too and each have their own ecosystem. Yeah it's crazy science but what can you do. I mean in the show the out of control machines have made all sorts of weird localized ecologys

 

[cylkoth]

There's no way a group of advanced aliens like this coming to Earth would ever result in a stalemate or victory for Earth. Yes I understand the Ark's were destroyed, but apparently battle was at a stalemate before that.

RAMA

More off screen backstory...I recall reading that some of the ships crashed allowing Earth to get it's hands on super tech. That would explain how a stalemate could ever have happened (during the negotiation process before all out hostilities broke out).

 

[Christopher]

But O'Bannon was definitely the guy who concieved the series and developed it as a concept. I can see the sense of comparing the Defiance pilot to the pilot episode of Farscape, which O'Bannon wrote - in fact, both are a little encumbered by the amount of story and character they're setting up (Defiance more so, but it's a longest pilot).

Yes, O'Bannon created Farscape, but my point is that the sound bite you keep hearing that "Defiance is from the Farscape guy" is inaccurate, because O'Bannon was just one of three developers and he left after the pilot. So this isn't the second coming of Farscape that some people expect or want it to be. The overlap between the two shows' creative staffs is quite minimal. There are more Galactica/Caprica veterans involved with Defiance than there are Farscape veterans.

The “intent” is as unknown as the shooter and it would be determined in a trial but the setting is the ‘Wild West’ and as such, survival and not procedural legalities are their priority.

Even so, I can't believe they'd just shrug off the killing of their lawkeeper. Nothing gets cops up in arms like killing a cop. Hopefully in episodes to come there will be some followup to this.

The main thing I question especially reading earlier and seeing the backstory. How the hell did the Earth *FIGHT* these aliens? The ships came in 2013 and apparently the war broke out in 2023.

I really don't think we have the technology to be battling multiple interstellar races and don't think that will improve much in 10 years. I'm assuming there was some sharing of technology by those seeking to settle on the Earth, but that still seems a bit farfetched to me.

I would think any fight against Aliens would be similar to Fallen Skies. Pretty much *OWNED* within a few days and then whatever fighting remains is resistance pockets.

But the Votans didn't come as invaders. They came as refugees, expecting to settle what they thought was an uninhabited planet. So it's not like they came equipped with an arsenal and infantry legions and such. Nor were they a unified force. The Pale Wars weren't just human vs. alien; there were also humans fighting humans and Votans fighting Votans. True, once the Volge showed up later in the war, they were certainly equipped for heavy fighting, but the Votans hadn't even known they were there until they struck, and the Volge were a threat to humans and Votans alike.

Not to mention that the Defiance timeline began to diverge back in 2000, when the Earth's governments discovered the approaching fleet and began working in secret to develop defenses, including the Biomen. So they had 13 years of warning to prepare, plus a decade of peaceful technology exchange with the Votans.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

As for the Lawkeeper's death. If you ever watch Gunsmoke or the like, when the sheriff dies they stick the badge on the new guy. They don't fret over legalities. This show is a western not a police procedural.

 

[not]

As for the Lawkeeper's death. If you ever watch Gunsmoke or the like, when the sheriff dies they stick the badge on the new guy. They don't fret over legalities. This show is a western not a police procedural.

Agreed and they settle scores later

 

[Kegg]

But the Votans didn't come as invaders. They came as refugees, expecting to settle what they thought was an uninhabited planet.

In which sense Defiance's backstory resembles another Rockne O'Bannon-involved product, that is Alien Nation.

 

[Christopher]

^Oh yeah. I noticed the Alien Nation parallels earlier, but I forgot that O'Bannon had written the original movie of that because it was so much less interesting than the TV series.