Does It Get Better???

[AdmiralScreed]

The more we discuss Endgame, the more I think the entire episode was one gigantic, convoluted mess. The more a person thinks about the time travel element of this episode (which I am doing right now), the more questions are raised, and every action in this episode begins to make less and less sense.

It's an enjoyable episode if you take it for what it is, which is why I'll stick with my high score of 8/10. I just wish it had been better thought out and had included the things I mentioned in my review.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Besides Janeway asking Chakotay to "set a course for home", they don't converse at all in the episode. He also uncharacteristically refers to Janeway's future self as just "an admiral from the future" and not the person who has been his friend for 7 years. A little disrespectful, I think... Sheesh.

He refers to Admiral Janeway that way because she is not the person who has been his friend for 7 years. This is normal etiquette for when you meet someone from the future you know in the current day.. you're suspicious, you don't know if this person in front of you has led a life that has potentiallymade them a very different person than the current person you know. Chakotay is respectful but making a point that this Admiral is not his Janeway.

Everyone wasn't all lovey dovey with future Amy Pond either. Even James Kirk said "bullshit" when confronted with future Spock.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Instead of blowing up the shuttle capable of instant transgalactic flight because she couldn't trust Starfleet to use future tech responsibly, Kathy could have trusted at the least her own crew to use the technology responsibly and then try to blow up Voyager, or just the time drive, after they had used the time drive to get back to the Alpha Quadrant before Starfleet could get hold of it.

The Time Drive was unstable and breaking down, but if B'Elanna and Harry looked over the technology for a month, they could have built a new one, even a better less wiggy time drive, that wasn't wearing down on the verse of catastrophic faliure, and jumped home without any problems or having to contend with the Borg.

It's possible that Janeway massaged the truth until her yonger self thought that it was her own idea for the old lady to whack the Queen? But really? Whacking the queen using a virus similar to something that was already floating in Ichebs blood stream and everyone Icheb had had sex with.

Just a by the by.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_Invasion_of_2381

Becuase of Endgame, 63 billion Federation, Klingon and Romulan citizen's died in the novels as payback for what Admiral Janeway did to the Collective.

If there was a reason to backstep and stop Endgame you would think the number of fatalities that might be averted would be considerably less than 63 billion souls? Of course 63 billion people died, but not Seven of Nine.

Was that when Kathryn died?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

She'd have to go back to preCaretaker to save the 76 crewmen aboard Equinox before half of them died in the first week, and the rest either died or went bad and died, or went bad and then waited for trial on Earth for the next 2 decades on Voyager in the Admirals timeline.

Really you could keep going back and back and back the more people you thought of who were dead. But eventually you run into the possibility that you might not make it to the favorite thing to save, which is 7.

One more complaint...the Doctor's dumb blonde wife before the timeline change...WTF. Out of character? Yes?

Oh it was fabulous. Of course he's flattered as hell that a REAL woman who also curiously has similar features to his protege/crush that he half created wants him. And I bet she's smart as hell too, just knows how to please the Doctor with the right fawning. Probably has a payoff for both of them, that dynamic.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's an enjoyable episode if you take it for what it is, which is why I'll stick with my high score of 8/10. I just wish it had been better thought out and had included the things I mentioned in my review.

8 out of ten minus the 10 out of ten you gave Timeless, because it was the same damn script with a tiny polish.

Which is actually minus two out of ten.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She'd have to go back to preCaretaker to save the 76 crewmen aboard Equinox before half of them died in the first week, and the rest either died or went bad and died, or went bad and then waited for trial on Earth for the next 2 decades on Voyager in the Admirals timeline.

Really you could keep going back and back and back the more people you thought of who were dead. But eventually you run into the possibility that you might not make it to the favorite thing to save, which is 7.

You haven't read Chapter 10 yet?

 

[AdmiralScreed]

It's an enjoyable episode if you take it for what it is, which is why I'll stick with my high score of 8/10. I just wish it had been better thought out and had included the things I mentioned in my review.

8 out of ten minus the 10 out of ten you gave Timeless, because it was the same damn script with a tiny polish.

Which is actually minus two out of ten.

Hey, I never said my rating system was fair and objective, or for that matter even very smart.....

Borg Queen + time travel + fight against the Borg to return home = awesomeness!!!

EDIT: And a little hot romance between Seven and Chakotay earns it an additional point......

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm not saying that it didn't tick all the boxes but you're not going to minus points for plagiarism?

 

[AdmiralScreed]

- 1 for plagiarism

- 1 for confusing time travel

That leaves.....8 out of 10!!!

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Besides Janeway asking Chakotay to "set a course for home", they don't converse at all in the episode. He also uncharacteristically refers to Janeway's future self as just "an admiral from the future" and not the person who has been his friend for 7 years. A little disrespectful, I think... Sheesh.

He refers to Admiral Janeway that way because she is not the person who has been his friend for 7 years. This is normal etiquette for when you meet someone from the future you know in the current day.. you're suspicious, you don't know if this person in front of you has led a life that has potentiallymade them a very different person than the current person you know. Chakotay is respectful but making a point that this Admiral is not his Janeway.

Everyone wasn't all lovey dovey with future Amy Pond either. Even James Kirk said "bullshit" when confronted with future Spock.

True.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

She'd have to go back to preCaretaker to save the 76 crewmen aboard Equinox before half of them died in the first week, and the rest either died or went bad and died, or went bad and then waited for trial on Earth for the next 2 decades on Voyager in the Admirals timeline.

Really you could keep going back and back and back the more people you thought of who were dead. But eventually you run into the possibility that you might not make it to the favorite thing to save, which is 7.

One more complaint...the Doctor's dumb blonde wife before the timeline change...WTF. Out of character? Yes?

Oh it was fabulous. Of course he's flattered as hell that a REAL woman who also curiously has similar features to his protege/crush that he half created wants him. And I bet she's smart as hell too, just knows how to please the Doctor with the right fawning. Probably has a payoff for both of them, that dynamic.

Hahahaha...alright, I won't hate on her. He is a hologram and got a real woman to marry him. She just didn't seem...as smart as I would think a person like the Doctor would want for a wife. But I don't know. You only see her for about a minute. haha.

I just hate Endgame. :P

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I just hate Endgame. :P

:: pats Captain Kathryn gently ::

I will spare you my impassioned defense of C/7..

See, I am quite nice.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

I just hate Endgame. :P

:: pats Captain Kathryn gently ::

I will spare you my impassioned defense of C/7..

See, I am quite nice.

Haha.

Even though I prefer J/C together...I don't hate C/7... if the show took the time to develop it more...or at least start it off earlier (that Chakotay hologram does not count), it would have been better, I think. It was just the complete randomness of it...like right at the last possible minute, they paired them off.

Tom and B'Elanna were an unlikely couple at first, but they made it work because it was slow and steady and had a purpose. Chakotay and Seven weren't really seen as potential romantic partners until Endgame...except for Seven's holographic Chakotay a few episodes earlier in which you realize...okay, Seven likes him THAT way. But you don't ever see the real Chakotay knowing about it or reciprocating...until Endgame.

And to top it off, I hated how Chakotay didn't tell Janeway that he was seeing her. He just told her he "had plans". Got mad at that part.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Then again Seven is awesome...so really she could be seen with anyone. Because who would turn that down?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

And to top it off, I hated how Chakotay didn't tell Janeway that he was seeing her. He just told her he "had plans". Got mad at that part.

He was scared.

 

[tighr]

Then again Seven is awesome...so really she could be seen with anyone. Because who would turn that down?

Harry.

No literally. Harry turned it down.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Yes. Her offer to procreate with him?

Poor Harry. Never promoted, bad luck with girls, misses his mom...virtually non-existent in Season 7. ;p

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

No, her offer to copulate with him.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

No, her offer to copulate with him.

RIGHT haha.

SEVEN: Obviously you've suggested a visit to the holodeck in the hopes of creating a romantic mood. Are you in love with me, Ensign?
KIM: Well, no.
SEVEN: Then you wish to copulate?
KIM: No! I mean, I, I don't know what I mean.
SEVEN: All of these elaborate rituals of deception. I didn't realise becoming human again would be such a challenge. Sexuality is particularly complex. As Borg we had no need for seduction, no time for single cell fertilization. We saw a species we wanted and we assimilated it. Nevertheless, I am willing to explore my humanity. Take off your clothes.
KIM: Er, Seven.
SEVEN: Don't be alarmed. I won't hurt you.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Wife "How do you know Joe?"

Tom "What? who's Joe? You're Joe? It took you 30 years to... Oh, you named your self in honor of Joe Carey? That's really cool of you."

Joe "Who's Joe Carey?"