For all you know, he's just returned from the bathroom.
I wonder what he did in there to warrant being named a one man weapon of mass destruction
The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!
- Thread starter SalvorHardin
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I wonder what he did in there to warrant being named a one man weapon of mass destruction
So, I'm still thinking the Cumberbatch villain is Gary Mitchell. With wearing Starfleet uniform and "returning" to get "vengeance".
But could still be Garth of Izar. He was in Starfleet, back for vengence, but might refer to Earth as "your world"--because he's from Izar, apparently--although it was never establish where or what Izar was in cannon--a planet or city.
I think Garth has a lot of room for improvement. The original TOS episode with him wasn't that great (although the character was pretty memorable). Not as much to live up to. Versus WNMHGB, which is a great episode with good philosophical issues, that would be harder to follow up on.
As Captain_Amasov said "The plus side with using Fleet Captain Garth is that you can't really ruin the character, since he's starting from such a low level of apparent worth. The only way is up."
I do like the idea that this villain will have a little more developed mind-set that just straight vengeance.
Cumberbatch has said that his villain is neither purely good or purely evil, that he has understandable motivations.
The problem is that the villain in the trailer just appears to be superhumanly strong and fast and carrying big guns. He doesn't appear to have the powers previously established for Mitchell (telekinetics/magic/shiny eyes) or Garth (shape-shifting). This non-discrept villain could be about anybody at this point, including a/the Khan superman (or Bane).
Maybe it is Mitchell and the trailor purposedly left out the telekinetics to throw us off.
Maybe, because of the way Kirk "killed" Mitchell in the comics just as he was "powering up", that prevent him from being fully God-like, but he is superhuman (and still alive!). Still, that's a pretty convenient amount of powers for the bad guy.
I think the bonus scene in the Japanese version is a red herring. I don't think it's Kirk and Spock separated by glass. I think it's two different people. Maybe Pike and McCoy. I don't think the hand position of the person in blue is necessarily a Vulcan salute.
Certainly there will be a theme of Kirk sacrificing to save his crew/family. Learning what it really takes to be captain after being thrust into the role ill prepared.
I can't read japanese, but people who can have said that the subtitles for the line at the end "what are you not willing to do for your crew" is actually saying something very different, like "the weakness of man is love". That sounds very much like something God-like Gary Mitchell said in WNMHGB.
I don't like the darker aesthetic of the uniforms (and the scenes in the Earth city), but I guess that's to be expected in "Darkness". And I'm ready to enjoy it on its own terms. Makes sense in this timeline where Vulcan has been destroyed for Starfleet to turn more militaristic.
I do like the fire and water motif.
The first thing I thought about with the red plant area was the scene in WNMHGB when Gary Mitchell created a similarly-colored (although much smaller) area. Apples, anyone?
But after rewatching that scene, I find that all the red in WNMHGB was on the ground, not in the vegetation, so probably not related.
I agree with the connection between Mitchell and Kirk and the "blonde lab tech". Alice Eve could be Carol Marcus, but I think Elisabeth Dehner is more likely due to the haircut and the Dehner references in the comics. The look Kirk gives her could just be a red herring. Who's to say Kirk and Carol even meet in this new timeline? I actually think that she will turn out to more of a love interest for McCoy than Kirk. The comics already established that McCoy and Dehner have a strained history. Although, I really hope she's NO ONE's love interest. Heaven forbid we have a good looking woman in a movie who's just good at her job without having to be in a relationship.
But could still be Garth of Izar. He was in Starfleet, back for vengence, but might refer to Earth as "your world"--because he's from Izar, apparently--although it was never establish where or what Izar was in cannon--a planet or city.
I think Garth has a lot of room for improvement. The original TOS episode with him wasn't that great (although the character was pretty memorable). Not as much to live up to. Versus WNMHGB, which is a great episode with good philosophical issues, that would be harder to follow up on.
As Captain_Amasov said "The plus side with using Fleet Captain Garth is that you can't really ruin the character, since he's starting from such a low level of apparent worth. The only way is up."
I do like the idea that this villain will have a little more developed mind-set that just straight vengeance.
Cumberbatch has said that his villain is neither purely good or purely evil, that he has understandable motivations.
The problem is that the villain in the trailer just appears to be superhumanly strong and fast and carrying big guns. He doesn't appear to have the powers previously established for Mitchell (telekinetics/magic/shiny eyes) or Garth (shape-shifting). This non-discrept villain could be about anybody at this point, including a/the Khan superman (or Bane).
Maybe it is Mitchell and the trailor purposedly left out the telekinetics to throw us off.
Maybe, because of the way Kirk "killed" Mitchell in the comics just as he was "powering up", that prevent him from being fully God-like, but he is superhuman (and still alive!). Still, that's a pretty convenient amount of powers for the bad guy.
I think the bonus scene in the Japanese version is a red herring. I don't think it's Kirk and Spock separated by glass. I think it's two different people. Maybe Pike and McCoy. I don't think the hand position of the person in blue is necessarily a Vulcan salute.
Certainly there will be a theme of Kirk sacrificing to save his crew/family. Learning what it really takes to be captain after being thrust into the role ill prepared.
I can't read japanese, but people who can have said that the subtitles for the line at the end "what are you not willing to do for your crew" is actually saying something very different, like "the weakness of man is love". That sounds very much like something God-like Gary Mitchell said in WNMHGB.
I don't like the darker aesthetic of the uniforms (and the scenes in the Earth city), but I guess that's to be expected in "Darkness". And I'm ready to enjoy it on its own terms. Makes sense in this timeline where Vulcan has been destroyed for Starfleet to turn more militaristic.
I do like the fire and water motif.
The first thing I thought about with the red plant area was the scene in WNMHGB when Gary Mitchell created a similarly-colored (although much smaller) area. Apples, anyone?
But after rewatching that scene, I find that all the red in WNMHGB was on the ground, not in the vegetation, so probably not related.
I agree with the connection between Mitchell and Kirk and the "blonde lab tech". Alice Eve could be Carol Marcus, but I think Elisabeth Dehner is more likely due to the haircut and the Dehner references in the comics. The look Kirk gives her could just be a red herring. Who's to say Kirk and Carol even meet in this new timeline? I actually think that she will turn out to more of a love interest for McCoy than Kirk. The comics already established that McCoy and Dehner have a strained history. Although, I really hope she's NO ONE's love interest. Heaven forbid we have a good looking woman in a movie who's just good at her job without having to be in a relationship.
It's Gary Mitchell. Of course they're not showing silver eyes or godlike powers that would immediately give it away. His powers probably wax and wane due to circumstances.
Also, that is Spock giving the Vulcan salute to Kirk. It's a mirror image of TWOK and Abrams is doing it to throw Khan imagery in but it's not Khan. But, yep, looks like Kirk dies in this one. Leaving everyone in a cliffhanger-like scenario wondering how he's coming back in the 3rd installment.
Also, that is Spock giving the Vulcan salute to Kirk. It's a mirror image of TWOK and Abrams is doing it to throw Khan imagery in but it's not Khan. But, yep, looks like Kirk dies in this one. Leaving everyone in a cliffhanger-like scenario wondering how he's coming back in the 3rd installment.
Anyone else notice this guy?
The Fourth Wall is obviously something the science of the Trek universe has found a way to break by the 23rd century.
"Suspended animate, dirtbags" ?
Doesn't have the same ring to it.
Doesn't have the same ring to it.
I'm wondering what about Roger Korby (or an android upgrade thereof), with Uhura rather than Chapel being his ex...
I don't see anything in the trailer to suggest this idea is more plausible than any other idea but I find it more interesting than most of what's been said so far, if the villain must be a TOS character revisited. I'm more keen on a new character. Let the TOS nods be secondary--nice winks to the fans without a wholesale do-over of a major character.
I just watched Whom Gods Destroy and I gotta say, the orange disc on the control room panel looks a lot like the giant orange element in the Klingon fight scenes from the teaser.
Coincidence?
...yeah, probably.
Coincidence?
...yeah, probably.
Indeed - I expect a new character, TBH, but while people are still quoting Orci as having said it's a pre-existing one...
He's Khan, man. Think about it - would the general audience know who Gary Mitchell or Garth or Charlie Evans or Roger Korby was? But EVERYONE knows who Khan is, fan or not. Occam's razor.
The biggest grossing of the first ten films (The Voyage Home) had two animatronic humpback whales and a giant Swiss Cake Roll / coffee urn floating in space. It had to succeed on nothing more than a sense of humor and 20th century San Francisco references yet it did and went on to become the biggest grossing film in the entire franchise until 2009.
When your villain's a big snack cake with a blue rotating eye and the people still turn out in droves then it's clear having a universally recognizable antagonist doesn't matter.
When your villain's a big snack cake with a blue rotating eye and the people still turn out in droves then it's clear having a universally recognizable antagonist doesn't matter.
Apparently we're in uproar according to the Daily Fail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...quel-copies-Wrath-Khan.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
I saw that article earlier and yeah, it's a stinker of terrible tabloid reporting. Whoever wrote that should be forced to watch "Spock's Brain," "Code of Honor," "Angel One" and "Elogium" until the movie comes out.
I still highly doubt that it's Khan and not so much from the trailer but rather from thinking from an Abrams point of view (perhaps an imaginary point of view- but still). If it is Khan then that means that Abrams- who usually delivers on his tasks- is coming to the second movie and thinking, "Let's do the second movie again, but this time without the invested relationship between Kirk and Khan that was in the original." So unless he's got some stellar twist of masterful writing with which to replace that investment, then he's going in knowing full well he's not only making an inferior version from the start- but one that is going to receive a lot of backlash from the fans. I know I'd be pretty disappointed.
Khan's plan in the original all revolved around the "white whale" of getting back at Kirk for what he did, and for his perception that Kirk was responsible for his wife's death and all that jazz. But here? What's going on? How does Khan present any type of threat? How can he think he's going to attack the Federation? Where's he getting his ship from? You know; in the original he used mind worms to control Chekov into setting up a trap for the Enterprise; what's he do this time? ear worms again? Another trap but without Chekov? All of these things seem to me to be really problematic. Genetically engineered supermen fighting against Kirk is one thing, but fighting the entire Federation? I just don't see this as being a feasible storyline. Not to mention the problem of Cumberbatch wearing the Starfleet uniform.
Okay but if it's Gary Mitchell, now it makes more sense. He's got super-ESPer powers which fade in and out. He is a "one man weapon of mass destruction"; he fits the bill to a tee. Some people object saying, "He's got no silver eyes in the trailer!" Well, yeah- if they showed him with silver eyes, the gigs pretty much up. So obviously they're not going to just give it all away in the teaser. It makes sense that he's wearing the Starfleet uniform, and that he can control others' minds and do these grand scale objectives.
I suspect what we'll see is him destroying some stuff, Kirk asking Pike, "Who is this madman?" and Pike retelling the story of WNMHGB and how he marooned Mitchell on the distant planet; we see the immediate effect of changing the timeline, causing Kirk not to be the one who was captain of the Enterprise during WNMHGB, and Pike making the wrong decision. Mitchell probably will kill Pike (perhaps the "WOK" mirror scene with Spock's hand and Pike's?) and then Kirk will have to stop him.
Also, I can't help but give a nod to the guy who noticed the marooning on Delta Vega appearing in both the first movie and WNMHGB, both at Spock's hand. Then there is also that the blonde looks incredibly similar to Elizabeth Dehner who is a psychiatrist (blue uniform) who looks to be getting mind-raped in the trailer (either that or Scotty has been into the Romulan Ale and forgot to put on his pants). Cumberbatch looks like a pretty good match for Mitchell as well. Plus, this is one of the first and all-time great Trek episodes and would be a good target for the reboot series.
http://www.pinkraygun.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Star_Trek_silver-eyes.jpg
http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/alice-eve-578x434.jpg
Then there is the poster which shows Cumberbatch in front of a bunch of destruction. Maybe it's Khan- but if I were a betting man (and I am) I'd put all my chips on Mitchell without blinking an eye.
http://bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/stidintl-ru-post-t.jpg
[Hotlinked images converted to links. - M']
Is something you're not quite grasping.
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It's not Mitchell.
It's not Mitchell.
stfu nobody asked you.
"you are legion" [universe translator]all kinds of stupid[/universal translator]
I mean, just look at the screencaps above of Elizabeth Dehner juxtaposed with Anonymous Blonde Officer with Same Haircut and Command Division As Dehner. Then look at a picture of Carol Marcus or anyone else that it could be. Marla McGivers? Give me a break.
And if they're going down that route, I have no idea why it wouldn't be Gary Mitchell. I really, truly doubt they'd make it some other villain. Either it's Mitchell and Dehner, or they're both completely original characters (which is unlikely). Or, Anonymous Blonde Girl is someone like Chapel or Rand, and then the villain could be anyone.
I just can't imagine they'd use Khan again. Too much sacrilege, especially when there's a bazillion ways to write an original story that could set itself apart from TWOK.
Then again, I don't know anymore. Trek isn't perfect. TPTB have effectively urinated on the franchise multiple times in the past; I'm sure they could fuck up again in the future.
And if they're going down that route, I have no idea why it wouldn't be Gary Mitchell. I really, truly doubt they'd make it some other villain. Either it's Mitchell and Dehner, or they're both completely original characters (which is unlikely). Or, Anonymous Blonde Girl is someone like Chapel or Rand, and then the villain could be anyone.
I just can't imagine they'd use Khan again. Too much sacrilege, especially when there's a bazillion ways to write an original story that could set itself apart from TWOK.
Then again, I don't know anymore. Trek isn't perfect. TPTB have effectively urinated on the franchise multiple times in the past; I'm sure they could fuck up again in the future.
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