Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

I mean the one that continues as normal and wasn't created by a freak incident in the future/past. Some may refer to it as the Prime Universe, for me I prefer to see it as the Real one.

The trio is a far more important relationship to the franchise that needs to be nutured and developed, seeing how three men of different backgrounds come together to form a friendship that would last for decades to come. More screen time needs to be given to matter such as that rather than a love story (or if they do want to go that root, then they should really shake things up and have Kirk and Spock finally get together).

That remains to be seen. I give them another film, two at the very very most before it all comes crashing down.

Well the Alternate Universe has given us a new relationship, her "new" linguistics skills, not to mention altering baseline facts from the Real one (for example Chekov's age), so anything is possible with a massive reboot. I'm just saying is all.

Well they're the next best thing to it. As for Uhura, she does wear a skirt does she not? They could have introduced/used and female character for the same result (Chapel, Rand, Helen Noel, Carol Marcus, etc).

Seduction aside, it is highly inappropriate for such a relationship. Even more so now they are on the same ship.

Spock wasn't giving out the ship postings. But rather than take it up with the officer who was doping so, she goes right to her lover and has a hissy fit until she gets her way (there is a further comment I'd like to make here, but some may find it offensive so I'll hold my tongue).

That's not a scene I remember from the film, but will keep an eye out for such a display next time I watch it.

I am aware of that, Vulcans have emotions but they choose to suppress them and follow a path of logic. Yes they will occassionally encounter an event that will be too much for them to handle and emotions will break through, but even when with a mate they show great reserve and control.

Which was never expressed in TOS, but as I previously stated, is an easy assumption to make. Just because something is not stated, doesn't make it impossible to believe that it is so in Trek (which is why, until stated otherwise on screen, I will always believe that Andorians have four genders), such as comm officers being language experts.

Chapel could whoop Nu-Uhura's ass, and sweep Spock off his feet. Between Zoe Saldana and Majel Barrett, I know who I'd go for (if I swung that way that is).

 

Spock and uhura are pefect only in JJ universe and I don’t mind Spock and Chapel in TOS universe.

I hope it remains that way on screen.

star trek is science fiction...we dont need women fightng over men in the new movie.

I doubt quinto’s spock will put up with chapel's infatuation...Quinto or shall I say Nu Spock seems kind of snobby .I don’t think NU Spock will find Chapel's crush enduring like TOS Spock did.

Also Nu Spock unlike TOS Spock has not shun his human side which means he is likely not to be ignorant of Chapel's crush.

What makes Nu Spock so unique was the fact that he entered a relationship with his student by his own free will ...TOS Spock would never have done that.



And yes I would say Majel Barrett is overall more attractive than zoe saldana...zoe could be just as attractive as Majel if she gained a couple of pounds

However in today's Hollywood you can’t even be a size 6 and get a job you have to be a size 0. Its such a shame because the oringal uhura and Majel Barrett where no where close to a size 0.

 

I find that she is far too scrawny to be attractive.

To me, Nu-Uhura really comes off as being a bit of a bitch, add that to Nu-Spock's anger issues and it doesn't exactly spell a long and happy future together.

 

MORE LOVE, MORE MORE

 

Just WONDERFUL, teacake!!!
------------------------------

I'm on the run right now, but I'll be back to respond later.

 

honestly i hate it went guys do this.hey have you ever heard of that chrisitina agilera song called can hold us down.

well let me tell you whats in the lyrics

 

Talk about double standard ....This is one of the reason why I honestly don’t like guys at times. Hey Bry Sinclair have you ever heard of this Christina Aguilera song called Can hold us down. Well let me tell you some of the lyrics to the song.

’’So what am I not supposed to have an opinion
Should I be quiet just because I'm a woman
Call me a bitch cos I speak what's on my mind
Guess it's easier for you to swallow if I sat and smiled’’.


You call Uhura bitch and why?
o yeah... because she snubbed a drunken guy who later violated her. Uhura is a smart woman. she knew the likes of guys like Jim Kirk, Kirk is a womanizer and she was right about the sex comment, Kirk will have sex with anything.

kirk already has a reputation in star fleet academy. he has perhaps slept with many of the girls in the academy and worse he uses and humiliates women for his own personal glory....Case in point Galia and the Kobayshi maru test.

I am surprise you don’t find Kirk behaviour bitchy.As a guy you perhaps find it cool that kirk has had sex with so many women some not even human.

I doubt uhura sleeps around in the academy like Jim and galia and Yet you call uhura A bitch when she only acted mean to Kirk for good reason. Kirk violated her by touching her boobs and by spying on her has she was taking of her cloths. she was right to shut him down yet you call her a bitch.

Also Uhura deserved her place on the Enterprise.she worked hard for it and finished at the top of her class. She was right to demand that her posting be change....That is not been bitchy that's a stong independent woman.

shame on you for calling her a bitch.

I swear...you BOYS.

 

Normal. New "normals" are created everyday. Even still, both "realities" are works of fiction, and therefore fake, but I understand what you are saying.

Or before they get married. That's my hope.

I think you know what I mean. You weren't just talking about clothes. "Skirt," in the way that you used the term, is typically used in a derogatory way by sexists, but you can always claim you didn't know that.

How do you know that Spock wasn't in charge of the assignments. It sure looked that way to me. That's why he was able to change Uhura's assignment because she'd earned it. Seems like she went to the right person to me. I don't think their relationship on the ship (or before) is inappropriate, so long as there are certain guidelines in place.

Have you been in every Vulcan bedroom? You don't know that. For all we know, as soon as that door closes, some of these Vulcans can be, and are, downright as passionate as any human. And besides, for what Spock went through, I think he showed a heck of a lot more self-control and reserve than anyone else (see: the humans) would have.

You just made my point for me. Who's to say Spock Prime didn't harbor a secret life-long love for Prime Uhura, and that's why he urged young Spock to do what "feels right."

Ooookay? First, I find it interesting that even when Uhura is not even mentioned, you find a way to attack her. Second, I think you're getting your realities mixed up. I said this Spock, meaning the one played by Zachary. IIRC, In the 2009 movie, Bones says something in the medical area of the ship to a "Nurse Chapel" who is off camera. She's never seen, so again, Chapel who? I highly doubt that Ms. Majel Barrett, rest her soul, came back from the dead and/or de-aged 40 or so years just to play a character in the 2009 film that we never saw. She did, however, live long enough to give the 2009 film her blessing (I think JJ mentioned it in the commentary).

In matters of the heart and mind, it's not always about what they eyes can see. Isn't that what Star Trek's supposed to be about, at least in part? Both women are attractive, and Zoe is naturally on the thin side. You can tell by her bone structure.

I don't see where was she was a "bitch" exactly (and that's another derogatory term, you know). Anger issues? Okay, well, just tell me how you would feel if all of your family and everyone you knew were killed and your home was destroyed all in the same day with one crazy guy from another universe to blame for it? I think a little anger is allowed here.

 

I never thought of it like that, but you make some very interesting points, and you point out some very real parallels.

 

So it sounds like you had some hopes that were dashed in the last film, but more about that in a bit.

"Far more important" by whose standards? I think the entire team is important, but you are making it very clear that your preference is to see a movie about three men like it's an old boys club. These versions of these characters may have friendships similar to those in TOS, or not. It remains to be seen.

What I love most about your response here is that you at least are broaching what this conversation may really be about: Kirk and Spock as a gay couple, with perhaps Bones added in for good measure. I have nothing against seeing gay couples (perhaps they could introduce one down the road), but these particular characters are not of that orientation. Uhura, who you seem to have quite a lot of unnecessary hostility towards, is a reminder of that, and perhaps that's why she's being villainized.

And please don't say she's not being villainized; she is. It's like Malaika said about the last couple to few pages of this thread. So many things have been said that I've read elsewhere, and if we keep going I'll hear them all here eventually.

What you basically have pointed out is that no amount of discussion is going to do any good on this one, because we're not just talking of "friendships;" we're talking of relationship preferences. That's why Spock can't have a girlfriend/fiancée and have male friends on the side. It has nothing to do with him being half Vulcan. Because, the reality is, some people are upset that that little bee came along and stole their (Kirk/Bones') man. How dare she! That's always been the tone of these discussions, at least the ones I've read and participated in. I do thank you for your honesty, and please be bold enough to not try to take it back now.

It was nice talking to you.

 

Can’t say that I’ve heard of that song by Christina, though I do like “Beautiful”.

Because I found her to be a cold and unlikable character, who acted unprofessionally in getting her assignment to the Enterprise and also whilst onboard it to her superior. She has an attitude that isn’t what I’d come to expect from Uhura and really grates on me.

Kirk is a womaniser, everyone knows it. But if he was a user of women, then word would spread across campus and he’d never get lucky.

How does he “humiliate” them? I didn’t see any posters about the Academy rating the women he’s slept with, or him posting naked pictures he’s taken on his blog, or dishing the dirt with McCoy and his other friends. He is a young man at the Academy doing what many young people (both male and female) do when at university.

Galia is an Orion, who produces powerful pheromones that men can’t resist, so she more than likely bedded him.

As for the Kobyashi Maru, he gets a commendation for ‘original thinking’ for his act of sabotage and cheating. Whilst perhaps not the best reason for it, it does display out of the box thinking, which was one of the things Pike liked about him.

I have never liked Kirk. He’s a misogynistic, egotistical jerk, who gets let off with far too much by Starfleet Command (hell, they even promoted him in the Real Universe). The only good think about Nu-Kirk is that he is far hotter than RU Kirk.

Terms like “As a guy” are sexist and making huge assumptions about me, whilst “not even human” comes across as xeno-racist. You don’t seem to have issues with Nu-Uhura sleeping with a half-alien. Every Trek has characters enjoy emotional and physical relationships with others of many different species, as mature and reasonable adults.

No, instead she just sleeps with her professor.

You’re right, many people would be annoyed/angry/violated to have someone watch them undress. When did he touch her breasts? That’s a scene I cannot remember.

My opinions of the character have nothing to do with that scene. I just don’t get a good feeling from the character throughout the film. Surely you’ve watched a film/series and taken a dislike to a character, everybody does. Nu-Uhura is like that for me.

Then why go to Spock, a man she has influence over and not the woman who was issuing the ship postings? If she is so great then she would be the one that would need to be convinced.

As for ‘strong independent woman’, I like those characters (Kira and Torres are among my favourites of any series, with Admiral Nechayev being a recurring character I have always liked, despite always being class as a ‘bitch’).

Shame on me for expressing an opinion that the character comes off as unpleasant, arrogant and stuck up, none of which has anything to do with her gender, but her as a character. I always liked Uhura, and when I heard of Nu-Trek I had hopes that they would make more of her, building on the graceful and elegant manner of Uhura from TOS, instead we get a character who is as charming as an enraged targ.

Sexism works both ways, and comments such as this I find offensive. And please, I’m 30 years old, by no means a “boy”.

 

Okay, well I'm ready to get back to "liking" Spock/Uhura, so:



Ahhh, better.

 

That is what the forums are for, opening discussions and debates, getting opposite opinions and understanding the beliefs of others. It's why I always keep coming back, especially when you can get some good back and forth going.

I do appreciate that the Spock/Uhura romance does open up sides of both characters for future development, and it will be interesting to see what they make of it, how it'll affect them and how it'll play into future plots.

But now after some pretty harsh attacks from serenitytrek1, I will be leaving this thread alone.

 

Peri_peteia over livejournal (she's also the author of the essay "Uhura is not a white girl" that explains why the S/U is a step forward) made some valid points here

her whole essay here: http://peri-peteia.livejournal.com/330851.html

I cannot agree more with this observation.
The big 3 or the Kirk/Spock duo undeniably is a result of its time. Inevitably, what worked in the 60s won't necessarily work in the 2012 where some dynamics, like two male characters that have only each other and can't have other important relationships, may be perceived as illogical, boring and not so realistic. This because today people find it absolutely normal and natural that characters may have different kind of relationships. The hero can have a best friend and he can have a wife or girlfriend, the two things aren't mutually exclusive like they were in the 60-70s.
In the 60s the writers couldn't have Kirk or Spock in a serious romantic relationship with any of the female characters because: 1) female characters were totally irrelevant, for Uhura we had a combination of sexism and racism that had made her a character who was in the background and could never really shine and more importantly she couldn't be noticed by the white guys. For its time her mere presence in the show was huge. (Uhura is not a white girl)
2) fangirls didn't want their male hero to get a GF so the networks controlled this kind of things in the fear of losing viewers. Chapel was disliked by a consistent part of the fandom because of her love for Spock and the few times he had been nice with her. The writers themselves knew it and admitted that it was part of the reason why the Spock/Chapel thing was dropped and he never reciprocated her feelings on screen. (check memory alpha)
But the thing is, Gene Roddenberry possibly had never actually intended Spock to be a monk and stay alone for the eternity nor have Kirk "married to the enterprise". He had wanted to explore Spock/Uhura but he couldn't because of the racism. He tried with Spock/Chapel but the network said no to that too for the above written reason. Both Kirk and Spock were allowed to have only brief flirts with random girls that conveniently vanished by the end of the episode.
The result is that Kirk/Spock became the most prominent relationship mostly because it was the only one they were actually allowed to explore.

of course Spock can't love Uhura, he's a vulcan, he can't show emotions yadda yadda yadda BUT, of course, if the couple is Kirk/Spock then we do want a romance!

I knew that sooner of later the REAL reason why some don't like S/U would finally come out.
It's all about shipping preferences, I just wish people would admit it from the beginning instead of creating these discussions about the merits of S/U that are double standard and frankly hypocritical anyway. You either like romance or you don't.

you're not the only one

I think that meeting Uhura sooner and under different circumstances did it. While Spock Prime successfully (sort of) tried to be more vulcan than vulcans themselves in the end he never really had to deal with something like falling in love with someone.
NuSpock fell in love and this is a totally new dynamic, we really don't know how Spock prime would have acted under those circumstances simply because he had never lived them, to begin with. Maybe nu!Spock will learn and accept some things sooner while Spock Prime had to live a whole life before he understood them.
Personally, I like that. I always thought that his control was just an illusion anyway. There are things that you simply can't control, vulcan or otherwise.

 

It's.. MIX and MATCH time!!

(gah, I've been in such a het mood lately..)

 

Well they didn’t succeed thank space! It took until the movies before that rot started to set in. Or as McCoy said in STV, I liked him better before he died!

I don’t think they had any intention of making him more human at that time, though. And the only way it’s interesting or even shocking, when he "goes off the rails" is by virtue of the contrast with his "normal" self.

As mentioned, I have to disagree. Everyone has needs, what’s important is the normal logical exterior. That’s what makes it science fiction.

Yes and thank space he wasn’t alive to hear it!

But not iconic or even particularly interesting. Even in STIV and V there are times when he seems more like Mork from Ork whose main problem was understanding human culture. Granted you are probably not going to be quite the same with you come back from the dead but still.

Darn it, I was hoping there would be something I could agree with you about. But as I have previously suggested, he seemed pretty "logical" as a child in ST09, even if less so than Prime Spock. In nuTrek he is not that long out of "indoctrination", if you want to see it like that, so to me he is probably at his most "Vulcany". What would be the point of most young Vulcans being less rigid and what would change their minds? Social pressure? But if you come out of school not practicing the necessary discipline, how is that going to work? No, I can see it wearing of slowly with exposure to humans, maybe.

But what could possibly have caused him to become more Vulcan on his own, assuming such is possible? His father "disowns" him and he decides to get even by adopting the very cultural traits his father (in the Prime Universe anyway) supposedly believes in? It doesn’t make sense. Sure, he might abruptly adopt logic and Vulcan ways as a defence against supposed human prejudice. However he would do it almost at once, and then slowly unwind. What else is going to cause him to slowly get more Vulcan and then, twenty years later, reverse the process? In the prime universe he failed his Bar exam or something and then died, but that hasn’t happened (yet).

I think they would be silly to turn him into old Prime Spock though I think it could go either way at this point.

I mean, it could be that in the next movie the reason the Enterprise is late leaving orbit will be because nuSpock’s therapist was double booked!

You seem to have missed my point. Malaika was implying that the lack of interaction in ST09 was evidence of the "impossibility" of a relationship between Scotty and Uhura. I was just pointing out that the character's actions aren't their own. That has nothing to do with alt realities or choices made in TOS.

However to address your comment, on balance we can all be truely grateful Star Trek wasn't created three years ago, whether we know it or not. But don't worry. I'm grateful enough for both of us.

Well my main points are 1) It wasn’t necessary. 2) It wasn’t necessary, and 3) if you want to do it anyway, it shouldn’t interfere with what is necessary.

Re BobOrci’s comments on Uhura’s status I’m not much interested in big 3, 4 or whatever. If Uhura is going to get more screen time I would have preferred it to be more productive. I was referring to BobOrci’s knee-jerk reaction, not your comment, which I thought was on the money originally.

Perhaps, but she didn’t get to demonstrate her xenolinguistics skills in the last movie

I might agree if I though for a second the character or the writers had been sincere in that offer.

I explicitly used the term "semi detached" to avoid just such objections.

That’s the problem. What today’s instant gratification culture fails to appreciate is there is no "underneath" if there is nothing "on top". A point I dealt with above so be careful what you wish for because exploring Spock is likely to destroy him. At least in terms of being unique and iconic. Or put another way: Quality and subtlety is once again being put to the sword by crude popularist hedonism.

Obviously I was using he royal "someone" here, but I suspect the guidelines were Roddenberry’s.

"Compromised" here means degraded in terms of what is important about him as a character. If Spock had been able to have a relationship with a woman in the 60 (under normal circumstances) he wouldn’t have been Spock in my view. Already nuSpock isn’t Spock and the only interesting thing is whether they will try to move him closer again, or further away.

No disrespect to Bry_Sinclair but I believe the reasons for our similar view-points never-the-less differ in some ways. For example I have no problem with the lack of history between Uhura and Spock even though in this reality there actually isn’t any onscreen.

Well STV blazed the trail for any such relationships (and probably took most of the flak for that) as previous trek has done so often for ST09. Even blowing up Vulcan wasn’t their own idea. And how could the reasons be the same when Scotty/Uhura were pretty close to equals and Scotty had a definite history of going out with women?

How do my comments add to any unspecified "double standard". I was just proposing an alternative explanation for what we saw. Conversely we can’t be certain she never did anything similar with Scotty (when the cameras weren’t rolling). Given the Scotty relationship was a decade or two down the track and people do change, it was entirely believable anyway. Your complain at the time was probably more to the fact of the relationship rather than its provenance and now you are just rationalising the Spock/Uhura thing because you are emotionally convinced of its "rightness". Why do I say that? Well to use your own words in post 119: "But the thing is: this is not TOS. It's alternative reality, it's the story from the start whatever happened in TOS it doesn't count here, it didn't happen to these characters.". Er, I hope I didn’t take that out of context.

Unlike you I am not basing my assumptions on past history, prime or alternative. What we know, only makes it less shocking to us, not the characters. The first scene in STV between them is the only one I remembered and it made it more than clear to me something was now going on. Once I got used the fact that any of the main characters might be having such a relationship, I was fine with it. And we already know at least part of the real reason you objected to it. The reason you continue to do so I'm guessing.

First, as mentioned, it was only "sudden" from our point of view. It seems you were suffering from shock (of more than one type), not implausibility. It could have easily progress over years of "prime time", to coin a phrase, before STV. It just didn’t show up on screen before that. And second: Of course not. Spock wasn’t presented as that sort of character, Scotty was and I have explained why I think it is a bad idea for Spock. Where is the double standard here? I’m not seeing it. The fact I am happy for Uhura to have a relationship with anyone who is actually available, argues against any sort of prejudice surely. The Scotty thing wasn’t developed (except badly, though it had a good start) and probably never caught on for that reason.

It seem to me your talk of hypocrisy and double standards are just unsupported rhetoric in the service of what you happen to personally like and is only necessary because the actual situation doesn’t make much sense. I believe I have had time to get over my shock re Scotty/Uhura because there is no real reason it couldn’t have happened, unlike Spock/Uhura.

ST09 spent a fair bit of time bashing and degrading Spock. I see this relationship as more of the same purely in the interests of popularism. In an ironic twist, it is really not Spock’s emotions that are the main problem here, but those of the audience.

Further, the impression of a "love interest" thing seems to me to be a by-product of the blatant attempt by the film maker’s to manipulate the audience, largely successfully it seems, and the power imbalance in the relationship. I don’t see either of those reasons as any sort of double standard. Perhaps you could explain your case? Note how this differs from Scotty/Uhura where their situation was a rather confused business in the end as was whether Sybok really had any hold over his followers other than enormous gratitude

Spock just happened to be the person assigning her to a duty station and then just happened to have the power to countermand himself? In reality someone else would have been doing that. And worse, Uhura again displays her poor attitude which is why some use the "B" word to describe her. Saying what’s on your mind or sticking up for yourself is not an excuse for being nasty or having bad manners, whatever current pop song writers may think IMO.

If Spock was in charge of assignments he should have excused himself. Uhura should never have questioned the decision in any event. She might have been assigned to another ship because it needed her skills the most. I never saw those assignments as permanent anyway, given they were still cadets and should have gone back to the academy after the dust settled.

You make some strange arguments about Kirk that are supposed to show that mythical double standard but Kirk never demanded or imposed upon Bones to help him get on board and I am against Kirk’s cheating. Further, you won't here me support the position Kirk ended up in.

I think the problem is he will be emotional on a regular basis, not just in unavoidable circumstances. I.E. he will no longer be Spock. By the way, I don’t blame Uhura for anything. Its just if you are going to reboot TOS you should include the most important parts of it in, my view. Not dump them for modern expediency.

I wouldn’t say "nothing". She doesn’t come across any better than Kirk, but as I have intimated, Spock is the main problem, yes.

I beleive it does, as described above. Of course you dismissed some of those concerns, sighting the long established concept of: "yadda yadda yadda".

I have to say though, that if I didn’t "love" this movie beyond all possible reason and argument, one or two of the negative points you raised would have really shaken my view of it. So thanks for that, very enlightening. I am not a fan of Pantheist Star Trek either.

Personally I dislike nuUhura and nuKirk equally and for how they behave, not who they are with. I wonder where that leaves your theories?

I am aware of 50 year old women who refer to themselves as "girls" for whatever that’s worth?

It wasn’t deliberate. His mistake was smirking about it afterwards. Uhura was nice about it though. She threw him back into the fight!

*** Edit: Great post by the way.

Not me, yuck! (and I say that as a supporter of gay marriage. )

 

I don't want them to have a romance. I just want them to have a great deal of sex. And be friends, hell yeah.

 

Oh, I see. Well that's different.

 

At this point, I'm not even sure that I want to respond. If you don't like them, you don't like them. But please, don't say it's not necessary and other things are (relationship-wise), and then say that you're not basing things off of the previous timeline. That's contradicting. And my theories remain in-tact so far. Anyway, I don't see Spock/Uhura as a romance, I see them as a love story with plenty underneath and on top. If some other people don't, then that's them.

Anyway, back to liking Spock/Uhura



And a little bit of fun: