Interesting Nemesis copy...
- Thread starter los2188
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Thing is, they were probably expecting more people that would see the movie wouldn't have seen DS9, then did see it, therefore, an explanation would cause a bigger WTF.One of the things that always annoyed me was the fact that Worf was back on the Enterprise, and not a word of explanation. This explanation here would have been a little lame, but better than nothing!
Oh, and in case you're wondering, that is not my worst complaint about NEM. But the devil is in the details, isn't he?
Definitely agreed on that one. Two seconds of dialogue could have solved it too.
"I'm glad you decided to return to active duty Mr Worf."
"I was not a good.... Ambassador" would do it.
Joe Average Moviegoer: "Ambassador? WTF....where did that come from"?
Yeah I know....but being a hardcore DS9 fan, the WTF ended up being on the likes of me.
Four years had passed since Insurrection, so there was plenty of time for Worf doing pretty much anything. Why would it be a WTF moment that took the job of an ambassador between Insurrection and Nemesis? A throwaway line about DS9 and the ambassador thing would have pleased the fans and would have been ignored by those who hadn't seen DS9. No damage done.
Nobody had a WTF moment when Kirk was all of a sudden an Admiral in TMP and Sulu was suddenly Captain of the Excelsior in TUC. Why are the TNG characters being denied any development at all?
By the way, there are original standalone movies that explain the whole backstory of their characters within that movie. References to the characters past is a very normal thing, and you don't always have to explain everything in great detail. A reference to DS9 in Nemesis would have been like a reference to Fort Knox in Goldfinger ... you wouldn't have to know anything about what's going on in Fort Knox, except for the fact that there is a lot of gold there.
Eh...Kirk has always been one of the most Bad-Ass Captains in Starfleet, it's a natural progression that he would be made Admiral at some point, not, that it would have to have happened, but, no surprise if he was all of a sudden an Admiral.
Worf, on the other hand, without seeing the actual episode where he is named an Ambassador, there is nothing that would lead you to believe it was a natural progression in TNG, The Movies or DS9, it pretty much came out of nowhere, so, yea, there would need to be some kind of context.
Don't get me wrong, I love the tie-ins as much as anyone, but, we have to be realistic and realize the Movies are made for the General audience, not the minor percentage of movie goers that we make up, and certainly they should cater to us where practical, but, they can't alienate 90% of the audience by catering to us.
Worf, on the other hand, without seeing the actual episode where he is named an Ambassador, there is nothing that would lead you to believe it was a natural progression in TNG, The Movies or DS9, it pretty much came out of nowhere, so, yea, there would need to be some kind of context.
Don't get me wrong, I love the tie-ins as much as anyone, but, we have to be realistic and realize the Movies are made for the General audience, not the minor percentage of movie goers that we make up, and certainly they should cater to us where practical, but, they can't alienate 90% of the audience by catering to us.
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Without Worf there is no TNG.
Diplomatic Implausibility was under the TNG label instead of DS9.
A Time to series crapped all of what DS9 had built to ram Worf back into TNG. :Gag:
It's painful to watch Worf on TNG again. "Screw you Worf!"
Diplomatic Implausibility was under the TNG label instead of DS9.
A Time to series crapped all of what DS9 had built to ram Worf back into TNG. :Gag:
It's painful to watch Worf on TNG again. "Screw you Worf!"
But my point is that the general audience wouldn't have cared about a throwaway line about Worf being an ambassador for a few years before he returned to Starfleet. No one would have given it a second thought, while it would explain a lot to us fans! It's been done a thousand times in movies that don't have any filmed backstory at all, why can't it be done in Star Trek?
It is. All the time. Each Star Trek movie is littered with in-jokes, asides, trivia, etc that non-fans wouldn't notice and/or understand.
e.g.'s:
In TMP, McCoy says, "I hear Chapel's an M.D. now." Also, Uhura and Rand show amusement that someone (McCoy) won't get into the transporter.
ST II: Khan mentions "his beloved wife", ie. Marla McGivers.
In ST III, McCoy attempts a Vulcan nerve pinch. Tribbles in the bar. Scotty's bagpipes.
In ST IV, Kirk is from Iowa, but works in outer space
Kirk mentions, in ST V, "I lost a brother once. I got him back." Spock's lyrette.
ST VI, many of Valeris's lines are callbacks to Saavik's in ST II.
And many, many more.
Ian Keldon
Fleet Captain
I think it was bigger than just Rick Berman. I think the higher ups at Paramount were leery of messing with a product that was making them money.
Jesus, no need to deconstruct my WTF moment like this. I was fine with Kirk going from cadet to captain in ST09, but the Worf thing? Get outta here!
You are right, they had a certain development in the TOS movies and weren't afraid to reference to the past ... as I said before, Kirk being an Admiral and Sulu getting his own ship ... and nobody feared a WTF reaction from the general audience.
I should have said why can't it be done in TNG Trek! As far as I remember, they even cut all the references of Beverly taking off to the Academy!
Spock Prime was referred to as "Ambassador Spock" a couple of times in STXI, and I'm sure very few of the audience members who hadn't seen Next Gen's "Unification" two-parter 15 years before cared.
I'm sure a lot of that stems from fans waiting ten years between the end of TOS and the long-awaited premiere of TMP. By contrast, TNG leaped from seven years of TV, direct to motion pictures.
Had TNG gone into a ten-year hiatus between "All Good Things..." and "Generations", the flavour of the films would have been... different.
And hopefully much less 'movie of the week'/two part TV episode feeling. You know, like real movies
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