You're speaking as if they do nothing but rehash old villains, which obviously isn't true. This isn't even the second movie in a row to reuse an old villain.
That's the Best They Could Come Up With?
- Thread starter sbk1234
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Depends on how you look at it. The last two movies have definitely used Khan as a base line:
Shinzon - Super weapon and has an axe to grind with a member of the crew.
Nero - Super weapon, dead wife and has an axe to grind with a member of the crew.
I'll be sorely disappointed if they use a super weapon and a villain with an axe to grind yet again.
EDIT: Though Khan's motivations in The Wrath of Khan actually make sense in comparison to Shinzon and Nero. I guess you can use that as a point that they're nothing alike.
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Oh puhleeze, let's not start with that again. You already know that's not true.
Depends on how you look at it. The last two movies have definitely used Khan as a base line:
Shinzon - Super weapon and has an axe to grind with a member of the crew.
Nero - Super weapon, dead wife and has an axe to grind with a member of the crew.
I'll be sorely disappointed if they use a super weapon and a villain with an axe to grind yet again.
EDIT: Though Khan's motivations in The Wrath of Khan actually make sense in comparison to Shinzon and Nero. I guess you can use that as a point that they're nothing alike.
Well, Khan has no axe to grind yet, just like he not yet had an axe to grind in Space Seed.
I doubt "revenge" will be the concept that drives the plot for this film.
Being Khan he's going to beg, borrow or steal an axe. And you just know its going to be blunt ...
I'm neither for or against Khan appearing in the next film. I simply want a good film. But they were able to wedge in revenge as a driving motivation for the villain in each of the last two films without the audience ever being introduced to the characters prior.
I find it unlikely it'll be another revenge against a crewmember plot.
As you say, that would be three in a row, which would be pushing it, plus a "grudge against Kirk" thing would make the TWOK comparisons too glaring.
I hope they go in a different direction for Khan. He's a mad scientist, or conquerer, or well-intentioned extremist, etc.
The last movie showed that continuity obsession is not merely a problem of (some of) the fans but also of the studio and creative folks. If you take stuff like ENT's last season, Star Trek - The Beginning, Star Trek - Federation and the upcoming movie into account it becomes clear that this is not a problem of particular Trek incarnation or particular people but rather a structural problem of the franchise.
So I'd say that three movies with Khan in a row are rather a symptom of this structural problem than its cause.
Erm, evil guy with really big gun looking for revenge is a really old trope and/or archetype and not exclusively associated with Khan.
Now, had the previous two movies contained a bad guy who was also a genially-engineered superhuman dictator from the past, your statement might be true.
I'm not sure how exactly the Khan in this new film will have the "Revenge Thing" going on, like Shinzon and Nero did.
I suppose the writers could figure out a way to have a newly-awakened Khan be bloodthirsty for revenge of someone, but it seems more likely that they won't need to go that route. If the Khan in this film is similar to the "Space Seed" khan, then revenge would not need to be one of his motives.
There's your revenge angle. Khan hit the "snooze" button on his cryogenic sleeper and Kirk woke him up anyway.
Who says that's what's going to happen?
One theory floating around is that Klingons wake him up this time
Maybe something happens to the Botany Bay, like running into some Galactic phenomenon that causes a power surge, which wakes them up without anyone finding them.
Just because Khan is in the new movie (if that really is who Cumberbatch is playing) doesn't mean any of it will play out like it did in TOS.
Probability doesn't matter, especially in JJ Abrams' alternate universe where space is unusually small, and much relies on fate.
Right.
We don't yet know who is going to first come across the Botany Bay in this movie (assuming it really is a Khan movie). It could be anyone, maybe even Klingons.
Who says it'll be the Enterprise? My guess, the Klingons do, shortly after George Kirk's death. A Khan who's been among Klingons for the past 25 years....
Shinzon is a revenge-hungry loner who wants to kill Picard (for whatever reasons). Same with Nero who wants to kill Spock (for whatever reasons) and in addition to that also basically has Kirk's "Khan!!!" line from TWOK.
That's as blunt as getting hit with a sledgehammer.
What you consider to be quintessential Khan played virtually no role in TWOK. You can easily watch the movie without knowing anything about his past and or caring that he is genetically engineered. His important choice, to go after Kirk, has after all little to do with his biological setup as the few exchanges with Joachim prove.
The Botany Bay is probably in Federation space (hard to imagine it travelling fast enough to get out of it!) so it seems highly unlikely the Klingons or Romulans would find it. Even if its in neutral space it's still highly improbable someone else would come across it. On the other hand the Federation have one person who knows almost exactly where it is. If anyone else finds it that will be the Kirk meets Spock Prime moment in the next film (not that a film isn't allowed one I suppose). Granted it probably won't seem that jarring (in the same way that the problems in TWOK seemed a lot less blatant than in STXI even though they might have about the same degree of implausibility once you think about it.).
"The Botany Bay is probably in Federation space (hard to imagine it travelling fast enough to get out of it!) so it seems highly unlikely the Klingons or Romulans would find it."
This is completely NON-canon, but it's an explanaiton that I kinda like. I read this years and years ago, and I have no idea who to credit, but it isn't my invention.
On several occasions the Trek crews have come accross old Earth vehicles in deep space, which couldn't possibly have gotten that far. "Space Seed" comes to mind, as does "The Neutral Zone" from TNG. The idea is that passing alien ships going at warp actually pull this vehicle into their warp bubble and "drag" it a ways before it just slows down again and ends up somewhere else. The paper I read with this explained it a whole lot better than I could, so it sounded very plausible, given the Trek universe. But you get the idea.
This is completely NON-canon, but it's an explanaiton that I kinda like. I read this years and years ago, and I have no idea who to credit, but it isn't my invention.
On several occasions the Trek crews have come accross old Earth vehicles in deep space, which couldn't possibly have gotten that far. "Space Seed" comes to mind, as does "The Neutral Zone" from TNG. The idea is that passing alien ships going at warp actually pull this vehicle into their warp bubble and "drag" it a ways before it just slows down again and ends up somewhere else. The paper I read with this explained it a whole lot better than I could, so it sounded very plausible, given the Trek universe. But you get the idea.
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