Green Lantern Series

[Agent Richard07]

Just caught up on the last two episodes and loved them both. Then I come in here and wow! A hundred or so posts. I was expecting half a dozen. Lots to read. At least this show generates discussion.

1x09: I was hoping that they'd deal with Carol Ferris and what she must have been going through due to Hal's disappearance. I also liked the Star Sapphire bit. It was a nice bonus. The only thing I didn't like was the clichéd spiel about how love means putting others before yourself. I've never believed that "good" requires sacrifice, just inclusion. And hopefully we'll see Carol get the ring back at some point, though working her into to the story or finding an excuse to keep her away from Hal would be tough.

1x10: Good to see Ragnar and the Queen revisited. I was also glad to see Ragnar get a red ring. I felt bad for the guy. I also got to thinking that with the color spectrum, there's something for everyone. I also liked seeing the blue lantern make an appearance. I didn't know it could super-power a green ring though. Last I heard, green and blue don't mix well, with Green Lanterns losing hands due to rings exploding in the presence of a blue power source. Anyway, another good episode.

Not crazy about this one, because of the inherent sexism of the whole Star Sapphire concept. I was hoping the animated series would avoid the ridiculous skimpiness of the comics costumes, since it's aimed at a younger audience, but no such luck (though at least Carol had a slightly less ridiculous outfit).

Personally, I love those outfits, with or without the rationale given several posts up. Aside from the sex appeal, they're kind of retro-futuristic.

Carol's eye piece was nice, and I see that these rings make hair longer too.

I think the whole "emotional spectrum" idea is pretty silly. I mean, willpower isn't even an emotion!

Agree totally. I can't stand all this mood ring lantern crap. It's put me off of what was my favorite DC hero.

The ring spectrum got me interested in Green Lantern again. It makes sense that there are more colors and it's a great way to expand the mythology. In fact, I'm reading Green Lantern: New Guardians because I like the idea of a team made up of all the colors. The power of green isn't diminished either. It sits at the center of the spectrum and it's the most stable. At first glance, the colors seem to have randomly assigned emotions and don't follow any kind of order the way the chakra system does, which starts with the physical and progresses through the spiritual and ends with the mental. However, the lantern system at least has darker emotions on the lower side of green and lighter ones beyond it. Works well enough for me.

I do hope we see an end to the constant use of the other Corps, though. I want to see GL go up against more of his old foes again. Evil Star, Sonar, Dr. Polaris, Goldface, etc.

I find the different corps much more interesting.

I just wanna see Sinestro.

As do I. Same with Larfleeze, the Orange Lantern.

I gotta find that issue.

 

[Christopher]

I also liked seeing the blue lantern make an appearance. I didn't know it could super-power a green ring though. Last I heard, green and blue don't mix well, with Green Lanterns losing hands due to rings exploding in the presence of a blue power source.

Needless to say, the show is its own interpretation and doesn't have to do everything the same way the comics did. But it seems pretty obvious to me why the power of hope would strengthen the power of will. That's a pretty straightforward allegory there.

 

[Admiral2]

Agree totally. I can't stand all this mood ring lantern crap. It's put me off of what was my favorite DC hero.

The ring spectrum got me interested in Green Lantern again. It makes sense that there are more colors

No it doesn't. It doesn't make any more sense than the mythos that came before it.

Before this, the Green Lantern ring was unique in the universe. It meant you were part of an elite force for good, with power supplied by one of the oldest and most advanced races around, the Guardians. Sinestro's yellow ring was unique because it was made just for him by people as advanced as the guardians. Sapphire's gem was unique because it was made strictly for a queen by offshoots of the guardians.

Now, there's no such thing as unique in the GL verse. Now everybody has a ring, and everybody can get a ring, and the Guardians look stupid because everybody in the verse is cloning their technology and making it like it's sold at Wal-Mart:

(Customer to Greeter: "I wanna buy my momma a ring for mothers day that will do whatever her will and emotions tell it do and I want it to be pink so she can support Breast Cancer Awareness while she smites her enemies.")

This is silly. Nothing about it "makes sense." When dead people can have rings, it's a stupid idea.

 

[Silvercrest]

cough <driq> cough

 

[Guy Gardener]

G'nort was given a fake ring and a pocket empty sector to look after by his influential Uncle.

The Central Power Battery is not powered by the Guardians personal resources, but by a fraction of all the will in the universe generated by every "being" in the universe, as if the Guardians were taxing or stealing a tariff from, again, every being in the universe without asking.

Every being in the universe is losing 1, maybe 2 percent of their total willpower constantly to maintain a police force that %99 of life in the universe will never know exists...

Point is...

What's the difference between the Central Power Battery turned up to 11, and the Antilife Equation Darkseid want's to use to use to make salve of everyone?

But the point I was trying to make before I was side tracked by something so damn obvious, is that if there is a finite amount of will in the universe at any one point, even if "will" is infinitely replenishable/renewable... If the Guardians are already monopolizing all the ambient excess willpower in the universe. The next would be masters of the universe would have to dip into a different untapped virgin resource like love, hate, or anxiety, or destroy the Guardians will collecting infrastructure and replace it with their own, unless these willpower vampires dodn't mind draining all life in the universe a little too much to the point their terminally depressed or suisidal?

 

[Admiral2]

G'nort was given a fake ring and a pocket empty sector to look after by his influential Uncle.

S'nice, but fake rings ain't in this conversation.

The Central Power Battery is not powered by the Guardians personal resources, but by a fraction of all the will in the universe generated by every "being" in the universe, as if the Guardians were taxing or stealing a tariff from, again, every being in the universe without asking.

The way Johns tells it. The way it was back in the day when us old fogeys read the book, The Guardians dispersed their raw blue power into batteries and rings built with yellow impurities to produce the green light the Lanterns use. Yellow and blue make green, see? Nice and simple.

Every being in the universe is losing 1, maybe 2 percent of their total willpower constantly to maintain a police force that %99 of life in the universe will never know exists...

Again, only since the retcon...

Point is...

What's the difference between the Central Power Battery turned up to 11, and the Antilife Equation Darkseid want's to use to use to make salve of everyone?

You tell me...

But the point I was trying to make before I was side tracked by something so damn obvious, is that if there is a finite amount of will in the universe at any one point, even if "will" is infinitely replenishable/renewable... If the Guardians are already monopolizing all the ambient excess willpower in the universe.

And my point is they wouldn't be if the mythos had been left alone, because the batteries and rings wouldn't be powered by anybody's will but the Guardians!

The next would be masters of the universe would have to dip into a different untapped virgin resource like love, hate, or anxiety, or destroy the Guardians will collecting infrastructure and replace it with their own, unless these willpower vampires dodn't mind draining all life in the universe a little too much to the point their terminally depressed or suisidal?

Or they could design lasers that shoot yellow beams and build missiles encased in yellow casings and kill every Lantern they could find and ambush and force the Guardians to fight for themselves.

And if you kill off their army, you instill doubt in the Guardians, giving you all the will sapping you need to challenge them.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Before this, the Green Lantern ring was unique in the universe. It meant you were part of an elite force for good, with power supplied by one of the oldest and most advanced races around, the Guardians. Sinestro's yellow ring was unique because it was made just for him by people as advanced as the guardians. Sapphire's gem was unique because it was made strictly for a queen by offshoots of the guardians.

Now, there's no such thing as unique in the GL verse. Now everybody has a ring, and everybody can get a ring, and the Guardians look stupid because everybody in the verse is cloning their technology and making it like it's sold at Wal-Mart:

(Customer to Greeter: "I wanna buy my momma a ring for mothers day that will do whatever her will and emotions tell it do and I want it to be pink so she can support Breast Cancer Awareness while she smites her enemies.")

This is silly. Nothing about it "makes sense." When dead people can have rings, it's a stupid idea.

All it means is that their universe is bigger than we/they thought. The Green Lanterns aren't alone. It happens. And if there's green, yellow and violet, why not red or orange? I find the fact that there's a full spectrum reasonable enough. And as I said, green still holds a special place since it sits at the center and is the most stable of the forces, so some of its prestige is preserved.

 

[Christopher]

All it means is that their universe is bigger than we/they thought. The Green Lanterns aren't alone. It happens. And if there's green, yellow and violet, why not red or orange? I find the fact that there's a full spectrum reasonable enough.

That's like saying that if there are gold, blue, and red Starfleet uniforms, there must be purple, green, and orange ones too. Or that if there are white cats, black cats, brown cats, and orange cats, there must be red, blue, green, and purple cats too. Just because something comes in more than one color, that doesn't make it logical to assume it must come in all colors.

And as I said, green still holds a special place since it sits at the center and is the most stable of the forces, so some of its prestige is preserved.

It's only "at the center" of the spectrum visible to the human eye, a spectrum shaped by the particular conditions we evolved in (the peak wavelength of our star, the absorption spectrum of our atmosphere) and by the nature of the light-sensitive chemicals in our eyes. Other species here on Earth can see infrared or ultraviolet light, or can see less of the visible spectrum than we can, or see it differently due to different light-sensitive pigments. And of course there are color-blind humans who can't differentiate green from red. Heck, there are even languages on Earth that don't have a word for green or don't distinguish between green and blue. Color perception is subjective even within humanity itself. So it certainly follows that alien species would not uniformly agree that green was at the "center" of the spectrum, and wouldn't even necessarily agree with our definitions of color in the first place.

What about Rot Lop Fan, the sightless GL invented by Alan Moore? His species didn't even have the concept of green or lanterns, so Katma Tui had to reinterpret "Green Lantern" as "F-Sharp Bell" for him and his species. That makes sense if green is just a symbol; it allows for the possibility that the underlying idea can be reinterpreted for all the species of the universe, regardless of how or whether they perceive color. But saying that the color spectrum as defined and perceived by humans represents some fundamental cosmic absolute, that it's actually at the root of how these powers work, implies that perspectives like Rot Lop Fan's are simply irrelevant and false, rather than the equally valid alternatives Moore intended them to be. And that seems ethnocentric and unfair to me.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Even though I called it, there was nothing really to call.

But Blossoms bridesmaid dress in the season finale of BIG BANG was fuchsia.

And Amy wore her Tiara.

So.

Because of what Sheldon was wearing.

It looked like Carol and Barry were having an affair.

 

[Professor Zoom]

What about Rot Lop Fan, the sightless GL invented by Alan Moore? His species didn't even have the concept of green or lanterns, so Katma Tui had to reinterpret "Green Lantern" as "F-Sharp Bell" for him and his species. That makes sense if green is just a symbol; it allows for the possibility that the underlying idea can be reinterpreted for all the species of the universe, regardless of how or whether they perceive color. But saying that the color spectrum as defined and perceived by humans represents some fundamental cosmic absolute, that it's actually at the root of how these powers work, implies that perspectives like Rot Lop Fan's are simply irrelevant and false, rather than the equally valid alternatives Moore intended them to be. And that seems ethnocentric and unfair to me.

As a side note, that character and the idea behind it, it's why Moore is a genius.

 

[Agent Richard07]

All it means is that their universe is bigger than we/they thought. The Green Lanterns aren't alone. It happens. And if there's green, yellow and violet, why not red or orange? I find the fact that there's a full spectrum reasonable enough.

That's like saying that if there are gold, blue, and red Starfleet uniforms, there must be purple, green, and orange ones too. Or that if there are white cats, black cats, brown cats, and orange cats, there must be red, blue, green, and purple cats too. Just because something comes in more than one color, that doesn't make it logical to assume it must come in all colors.

It's not necessarily the same thing. Starfleet colors are based on man made standards, and for cats, you're dealing with certain types of pigmentation. When it comes to the lantern color scheme though, it's easy enough to guess that we're dealing with the visible light spectrum once you see two or three other colors pop up, and that perhaps the other colors are out there too. You're right, it's not necessarily the case, but it's not much of a leap either.

And as I said, green still holds a special place since it sits at the center and is the most stable of the forces, so some of its prestige is preserved.

It's only "at the center" of the spectrum visible to the human eye, a spectrum shaped by the particular conditions we evolved in (the peak wavelength of our star, the absorption spectrum of our atmosphere) and by the nature of the light-sensitive chemicals in our eyes. Other species here on Earth can see infrared or ultraviolet light, or can see less of the visible spectrum than we can, or see it differently due to different light-sensitive pigments. And of course there are color-blind humans who can't differentiate green from red. Heck, there are even languages on Earth that don't have a word for green or don't distinguish between green and blue. Color perception is subjective even within humanity itself. So it certainly follows that alien species would not uniformly agree that green was at the "center" of the spectrum, and wouldn't even necessarily agree with our definitions of color in the first place.

I thought of that too. I rationalize my position by thinking that perhaps there is "something" to the visible spectrum that makes the color scheme less arbitrary than we think. It's vague, sure, but when it comes to comic book "science", I'm fine with that. And besides, real life philosophies link certain energies and states of consciousness to our visible light spectrum, so the fact that the lantern philosophy does it too doesn't bother me.

What about Rot Lop Fan, the sightless GL invented by Alan Moore? His species didn't even have the concept of green or lanterns, so Katma Tui had to reinterpret "Green Lantern" as "F-Sharp Bell" for him and his species. That makes sense if green is just a symbol; it allows for the possibility that the underlying idea can be reinterpreted for all the species of the universe, regardless of how or whether they perceive color. But saying that the color spectrum as defined and perceived by humans represents some fundamental cosmic absolute, that it's actually at the root of how these powers work, implies that perspectives like Rot Lop Fan's are simply irrelevant and false, rather than the equally valid alternatives Moore intended them to be. And that seems ethnocentric and unfair to me.

Interesting. I'll have to read up on that.

 

[Christopher]

It's not necessarily the same thing. Starfleet colors are based on man made standards, and for cats, you're dealing with certain types of pigmentation.

But that's my point. Why couldn't the color choices of the Guardians, Zamarons, and Sinestro have been made independently for arbitrary reasons rather than being parts of some uniform, comprehsensive scheme?

When it comes to the lantern color scheme though, it's easy enough to guess that we're dealing with the visible light spectrum once you see two or three other colors pop up, and that perhaps the other colors are out there too. You're right, it's not necessarily the case, but it's not much of a leap either.

Except isn't it kind of cheating to pretend that Star Sapphires are a "Lantern Corps" too? Originally there was only one Star Sapphire who used a unique power gem, not a ring. The only rings and lanterns belonged to the GL and to Sinestro, and Sinestro's was a uniquely created "knockoff" of the GL rings. So we didn't actually "see two or three other colors pop up." We had one and only one corps of lantern-powered ringbearers who happened to be green; we had one fallen Green Lantern who had a yellow power ring made specifically to counter the GLs' weakness, and we had one villainess whose power came from a sapphire-like gemstone. There's no pattern implied there. Johns just retconned the nature of Sinestro's and Star Sapphire's respective powers and origins to fit his idea of multiple lantern corps. So it's circular argument to use the premise of Johns's retcon as support for that retcon.

And besides, real life philosophies link certain energies and states of consciousness to our visible light spectrum, so the fact that the lantern philosophy does it too doesn't bother me.

Whaaaaaaaaaat??????? Citation needed!

 

[Agent Richard07]

It's not necessarily the same thing. Starfleet colors are based on man made standards, and for cats, you're dealing with certain types of pigmentation.

But that's my point. Why couldn't the color choices of the Guardians, Zamarons, and Sinestro have been made independently for arbitrary reasons rather than being parts of some uniform, comprehsensive scheme?

When it comes to the lantern color scheme though, it's easy enough to guess that we're dealing with the visible light spectrum once you see two or three other colors pop up, and that perhaps the other colors are out there too. You're right, it's not necessarily the case, but it's not much of a leap either.

Except isn't it kind of cheating to pretend that Star Sapphires are a "Lantern Corps" too? Originally there was only one Star Sapphire who used a unique power gem, not a ring. The only rings and lanterns belonged to the GL and to Sinestro, and Sinestro's was a uniquely created "knockoff" of the GL rings. So we didn't actually "see two or three other colors pop up." We had one and only one corps of lantern-powered ringbearers who happened to be green; we had one fallen Green Lantern who had a yellow power ring made specifically to counter the GLs' weakness, and we had one villainess whose power came from a sapphire-like gemstone. There's no pattern implied there. Johns just retconned the nature of Sinestro's and Star Sapphire's respective powers and origins to fit his idea of multiple lantern corps. So it's circular argument to use the premise of Johns's retcon as support for that retcon.

Okay, a bit of hyperbole there with the "two or three popping up". I'm still thinking about the show where we have 3 colors already and hints of a fourth. But anyway, yeah, the few colors we got could have been arbitrary. But the fact that natural law makes a larger spectrum available to us does fire up the imagination. The retcons had to come from somewhere afterall. And in the end, all I'm saying is that I like those retcons and new developments, and that they make sense to me. I'll admit that it did make the Green Lanterns seem less unique at first, but now that I'm used to it, I find that they add richness to the mythology.

And besides, real life philosophies link certain energies and states of consciousness to our visible light spectrum, so the fact that the lantern philosophy does it too doesn't bother me.

Whaaaaaaaaaat??????? Citation needed!

Read up on the chakra system.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Meh, I like the multiple corps thing seeing as without it we would be getting a boring Green lantern fight guys on earth and maybe goes to space sometimes show (just see how well that did with the film) instead of the awesome trekish space opera show he have now.

 

[Silvercrest]

So we didn't actually "see two or three other colors pop up." We had one and only one corps of lantern-powered ringbearers who happened to be green; we had one fallen Green Lantern who had a yellow power ring made specifically to counter the GLs' weakness, and we had one villainess whose power came from a sapphire-like gemstone. There's no pattern implied there.

All true, but there was also Alan Scott's ring, which patently used a different energy source than the others but had almost identical powers. And Gerard Jones established that G'nort had a knockoff ring made by the Quardians. Many of them were handed out in an attempt to discredit the real GLC. (I wondered at the time if it was another version of the yellow ring given an artificial green color.)

Anyway, the point is that there has been a precedent for other ringbearers not directly related to the GLC, even if they were green. It's not too big a leap to do the same thing in other colors.

 

[Christopher]

Meh, I like the multiple corps thing seeing as without it we would be getting a boring Green lantern fight guys on earth and maybe goes to space sometimes show (just see how well that did with the film) instead of the awesome trekish space opera show he have now.

That doesn't follow. The GL comics focused heavily on outer-space adventure long before all the "emotional spectrum" stuff was introduced. They had many space-based enemies or challenges that had nothing to do with lantern corps or rings.

All true, but there was also Alan Scott's ring, which patently used a different energy source than the others but had almost identical powers. And Gerard Jones established that G'nort had a knockoff ring made by the Quardians. Many of them were handed out in an attempt to discredit the real GLC. (I wondered at the time if it was another version of the yellow ring given an artificial green color.)

Anyway, the point is that there has been a precedent for other ringbearers not directly related to the GLC, even if they were green. It's not too big a leap to do the same thing in other colors.

Yes, but those all came from different origins and motivations, and most were deliberate imitations of the Guardians' invention. It wasn't about some single systematic scheme of cosmic color-coding.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Yes, but those all came from different origins and motivations, and most were deliberate imitations of the Guardians' invention. It wasn't about some single systematic scheme of cosmic color-coding.

I agree. It's actually simplistic story telling pretending to be other wise. I HATE villains that are pretty much just mirror copies of the hero. And this... it's a meh.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The black hand invented his original device himself with mere human genius and (unretconned) 1980s technology.

Of course he could only recycle green waste, and not harvest will from it's raw resource like a battery.

The guardians ave to be actively deterring the invention of similar tech to their own if it's that easy to copy them.

 

[Silvercrest]

So... has Hal figured out yet why his battery is missing?

 

[Disruptor]

I agree. It's actually simplistic story telling pretending to be other wise. I HATE villains that are pretty much just mirror copies of the hero. And this... it's a meh.

*Looks at Zoom's avatar. Looks up Professor Zoom's name.

Hmmm...