Holodeck as washing machine

[c5maier]

Even if it isn't the case in "Encounter at Farpoint" where Weasley is still wet (and stays it) after leaving the Holodeck, water should normally disappear after exiting it, as all the other things (or persons) that leave the holodeck.

So what would happen if you wash yourself in the holodeck?
You would go out and the water would disappear. But what would happen with the dirt? Normally "real" things stay even if you change the setting of the holodeck program. But is dirt also concerned by this?

So could I enter the holodeck, wash me there, and come then out, dry and clean? What do you think about this idea?

 

[Tiberius]

My own personal take on it is that if you carry something out of the holodeck, then it behaves like a replicator and you can take it out no problems. If you toss something out the door, then it vanishes.

 

[Gagarin]

I think what gets replicated and what is just simple hologram + force fields depends on the programming parameters, the AI of the holodeck guessing what you'll want to really touch and hold, and limitations on the specific holodeck you're using (they had different sizes). I think water is simple enough and easily recycled that it would exit the holodeck. If you're holding some paper as you walk out, the AI would guess that you wish to keep it. If you try and ride a horse out of the arch you're going to have a nice fall, likewise, if you try and ride a bike...unless the program was setup that you were going to re-use that bicycle in other revists to the program, then maybe it could replicate one...or maybe you need to go to the replication center for that.
I don't think it just fades. I think it's replicated matter, holographic illusions, and force fields/tractor beams.

It's just probably not one size fits all.

Basically I'm saying it shouldn't disappear, and probably anything that ends up really touching you that's simple is probably replicated matter. Sand on your feet, water, mud, etc.

I don't think "holomatter" is a thing. It seems silly that there's animated corpses with replicated, but dead, flesh. They're just illusions and force fields. Or maybe the holodeck often replicates a simple goo and force fields condition it to feel as firm or soft as it needs to be, and the holographic illusion fills in the rest. I don't know.

 

[Forbin]

Wesley fell into real, replicated water. The environment is a mix of holograms and replicated matter, depending on whether the user is interacting with an object. The water was real, therefor he remained wet when he left the room.

If you request a bath on the holodeck, it will provide you with a tub of real water and replicated soap. After you're clean, the holodeck will remove the dirty water and tub. I imagine you could probably ask it to remove the water from your skin as well, rather than drying off, but that sounds risky.

The food question often asked too - if you eat holographic food, does it nourish you? Well you DON'T eat holographic food, you eat real, replicated food. And yes it stays in your stomach when you leave.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

My own personal take on it is that if you carry something out of the holodeck, then it behaves like a replicator and you can take it out no problems. If you toss something out the door, then it vanishes.

Once a water balloon was thrown in the holodeck, exited the door and hit someone in the hallway.

Whether something can be carried out is probably a matter of the programming. If someone gets wet in the holodeck, the holodeck would probably have a hard time eliminating the water molecules attatched to the person and soaked into his clothing. In that case, how does it eliminate the water without slicing off bits of the person.

In a similar manner, I wouldn't doubt incidents when a person shuts down a program while in the holodeck and the system acidently eliminates something brought in or the person himself.

 

[Verteron]

In a similar manner, I wouldn't doubt incidents when a person shuts down a program while in the holodeck and the system acidently eliminates something brought in or the person himself.

This rings a bell - I seem to recall an episode (although I can't remember the exact series/name) where the justification for not just pulling the plug on a holodeck when it malfunctioned is that the people inside might get de-atomised along with the holomatter, presumably a standard clean-up procedure after you're done playing!

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Water balloon? I thought it was a snowball.

Water is literally one of the simplest molecules in the universe. I think it would be far easier for a computer to make and fill a volume of real water in a holodeck program involving water than replicate liquid matter that resembles water that disappears when you leave it. Said water would then be manipulated by force fields to react appropriately, i.e. if you're an Irishman shooting some rapids, but would otherwise react normally, though part of a larger illusion, i.e. a kid falling into a pond.

Could you still drown? Sure. Why else would Data have leapt to save Wesley if it wasn't? Holodeck safeties would deal with stuff like holo-bar brawls and falling rocks, but I'd think one would exercise caution when going for a swim unless you want to drown and have to be revived by your pissed-off mom.

Mark

 

[MatthiasRussell]

You're right. it was a snow ball.

How does the computer differentiate between the water that is part of the program and the water that is part of the living being or any other chemical for that matter?

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

"It just does."

Actually, it's yet another rationale for having REAL water instead of some replicated or forcefield nonsense as part of the program. Less to ahve to manage if you create a puddle of water and glom it around a subject on the holodeck, than to worry about the interactions of replicated matter with real people swiming around in it.

Mark

 

[MatthiasRussell]

How would replicated water be any different than real water? The holodeck must create 'real' objects, not just use forcefields otherwise a person wouldn't be able to get wet or consume edibles.

Here is another thought on holodecks emphasizing it doesn't just use forcefields, it must also create smell. For someone to enjoy food, a serene landscape, or get a sense of realism in a holo-brothel, the sense of smell must be utilized. Therefore the holodeck either creates 'real' objects or at least chemicals that mimic the smells and tastes of real objects.

 

[Forbin]

Yes, replicated water IS real water.

 

[Draculasaurus]

The food question often asked too - if you eat holographic food, does it nourish you? Well you DON'T eat holographic food, you eat real, replicated food. And yes it stays in your stomach when you leave.

I was wondering about that.
If it just vanished the sudden vacuum would probably cause an "backwards fart", which most crewmen probably wouldn't enjoy.
Better out than in, as they say.

 

[Mike McDevitt]

Wesley fell into real, replicated water. The environment is a mix of holograms and replicated matter, depending on whether the user is interacting with an object. The water was real, therefor he remained wet when he left the room.

If you request a bath on the holodeck, it will provide you with a tub of real water and replicated soap. After you're clean, the holodeck will remove the dirty water and tub. I imagine you could probably ask it to remove the water from your skin as well, rather than drying off, but that sounds risky.

The food question often asked too - if you eat holographic food, does it nourish you? Well you DON'T eat holographic food, you eat real, replicated food. And yes it stays in your stomach when you leave.

Pulaski's "crammed full of crumpets" line confirms replicated food.

 

[Kor]

This rings a bell - I seem to recall an episode (although I can't remember the exact series/name) where the justification for not just pulling the plug on a holodeck when it malfunctioned is that the people inside might get de-atomised along with the holomatter, presumably a standard clean-up procedure after you're done playing!

The Dixon Hill holodeck malfunction episode, wasn't it?

Kor

 

[BillJ]

The Dixon Hill holodeck malfunction episode, wasn't it?

Kor

"The Big Goodbye".

 

[dupersuper]

Could you still drown? Sure. Why else would Data have leapt to save Wesley if it wasn't? Holodeck safeties would deal with stuff like holo-bar brawls and falling rocks, but I'd think one would exercise caution when going for a swim unless you want to drown and have to be revived by your pissed-off mom.

Mark

I'd assume the safeties would remove the water.

 

[Timo]

Let's not forget that the holodeck is one of the smartest machines designed by Man. That is, the starship main computer apparently is, but the holodeck is the one outlet through which it can display its smarts.

The holodeck produces imitations of humans and other sapient creatures, all of them easily passing the Turing test. There's no reason why it would not apply the same smarts to making the user experience as pleasurable as possible in every other way, too.

So the holodeck would quickly be able to deduce whether a character who engaged in a bath wishes to leave the holodeck wet or dry, clean or dirty. Say, an entertaining bath in good company might leave a crewman suspiciously clean when he or she returns to the cabin and the spouse, so the holodeck deduces that restoring status quo is the way to go. Or an invigorating fight with a Mud Mugato will leave Worf in a state, but the holodeck deduces Dax would prefer another odor and thus applies that one before Worf leaves.

The holodeck really is the ultimate concierge, knowing all and outsmarting the user ten to one. It has the machinery required to grant every wish, and it probably knows when not to grant the wishes in full: a "safeties off" adventure will just have the safeties at 47%, so that the fatal fall merely breaks an arm and a leg. After all, it's not as if anybody ever actually died on a holodeck... A close call in "A Matter of Perspective" notwithstanding.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Holodecks do whatever the plot demands of them, such as Voyager running hers pretty much 24/7 despite having replicator rationing.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Let's not forget that the holodeck is one of the smartest machines designed by Man. That is, the starship main computer apparently is, but the holodeck is the one outlet through which it can display its smarts.

Man didn't make it. The aliens from "Unexpected" had one long before DSC, TAS or TNG's versions.

 

[Timo]

That one didn't have any smarts, though. The AI bit first appears in TNG where humans already rule Starfleet and the universe.

Timo Saloniemi