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Kirk Vs. Riker

Kirk vs. Riker. Who's YOUR favorite???


  • Total voters
    52
But if the upper echelons were really dissatisfied with Riker staying in that position, they could move him with or without his consent. They're obviously not too concerned about it, since they let him stay in that post for another 11 years or so.
The episode gives clear, in-universe indication that Riker's refusal to accept promotion to more valuable positions could be detrimental to his career. In contrast, no in-universe explanation for Riker being allowed to remain an XO for eleven years is ever presented, and the actual reason, of course, is that's just how long the Franchise wanted to keep utilizing the Riker character.

It boils down to in-universe evidence that is specifically part of the Franchise's fictional narrative versus real-world practical requirements that are essentially ignored by the narrative. Take your pick. ;)

Problem is that post-Best of Both Worlds, he's a war hero who saved the Federation...
Now, that could well be construed as an in-universe explanation for Starfleet's indulgence of Riker's wishes. (Could also explain why James Kirk was allowed to go back to commanding a starship after saving the world from V'Ger.) But those would be extreme cases and would not be evidence that Starfleet would routinely encourage such indulgences.
 
If it weren't for Kirk, there would be no Riker. Not to mention Frakes sounds ridiculous trying to bark orders.
 
Riker wasn't a perfect man--we know he had issues, and some of those are listed quite accurately here. Yet that actually makes him seem more human and relatable to me, rather than some sort of exaggerated action hero that we're supposed to believe is perfect and can do no wrong.

And I agree about his treatment of women being better. It's clear he likes the ladies, but he doesn't cross the line into "womanizer," which Kirk did.
 
All this "Riker just stayed XO for 15 years and was scared or wasn't good enough to be captain" is crap. I am going to have to stand up for Riker here, even if I like Kirk better. We all know the real reason he stayed XO all those years is because that is how he was written. But If you look at Riker and TNG as a whole, it does make sense to me that Riker stayed XO all those years.

People are forgetting that 23rd Century VS 24th Century Captains, indeed command structures, were a lot different.

You can make the argument that being a captain is less exciting in the 24th century, than the 23rd. While I am sure Kirk was an atypical example of a captain, based on appearances of other ship captains on TOS, it still seemed routine for a captain to beam down on an away team on a regular basis.

In the 24th century, it was uncommon for a captain to beam down on an away team. With few exceptions (IE Picard, Sisko, Janeway), in the 24th century, the captains place is on the bridge, and the captain rarely gets to go on away teams. In fact, Riker felt it was his job to ensure the captain stayed on the bridge, while the first officer took the risk of going on an away team. Of course Picard over ruled him from time to time, and could do it if he wanted to, it seems rare for a captain to leave the bridge of the ship in the 24th century.

In the 24th century, captains were more diplomatic, and less brash than their 23rd century counterparts, mainly because the galaxy is more explored and star fleet is more established. There isn't the same amount of need for "cowboy diplomacy" in the 24th century.

So, you can make the argument that if you are an officer in your prime of your life (IE your mid 20s to mid 40s), and like going on away missions and adventures, but still need to work on your diplomacy skills (something that can take years for many people), maybe you DON'T want to be captain right away. It seems to me that people who make captain at a young age in the 24th century are doing it because they want to make admiral at a young age, but aren't very adventurous and just dream of being a beaurocrat (IE Admiral Nechayev), then yeah, you grab the first captaincy you can get, even if it is a garbage scow. But if you are an adventurer, and an explorer, then you spend more time as an XO (like Riker), and refuse promotion to admiral (like Picard).

Also, we see that in the Picard command structure, Riker seems almost a co-captain in many respects, anyway. Picard makes the final call on the big, potentially quadrant affecting decisions (or episodes that require him to be at the forefront of the episode), but much of the time, it really is Riker running the ship, and not just as an XO. Riker only has to answer to one man, and that is Picard, who is basically the 24th century equivalent to Kirk.

Not to mention, this is the Enterprise he is the XO for. It is the flag ship. He basically has the best of both worlds (no pun intended), where he can still go on away teams, and take active roles OFF ship, but also is running the Enterprise, when Picard isn't. So, I think to Riker, it is better to be second in command of the Flag ship, serving under a living legend, than to be captain of some Oberth Class ship, on some scientific mission to study spores on a Class L planet on the outer rim of the Alpha quadrant.

Not to mention Riker is very good friends with the command staff, especially Troi. That was his family, for all intents and purposes, and also, maybe after having left Troi to serve on the Hood, and then happens to be stationed with Troi on the Enterprise, you know he had to have thought, at least subconsciously, it was a second chance to rekindle things with Troi, which they ultimately did.

So I can see why it would appeal to Riker to want to stay as XO on the Enterprise.
 
Someone start a poll. But you can't just include the traditional ones people rag on.

There's a difference between disliking a character and merely thinking them meh. Chuckles has a huge fanbase, no I am not one of them but I'm pretty much meh about him. I like Harry Kim. I am not bothered by Neelix, I quite enjoy him at times. I have little opinion of Wesley, certainly not enough to say "dislike". Sure I would rather he just wasn't in the show but I don't hate the guy.

Riker I disliked, to put it mildly.
 
Too bad we can't have a list of characters with choices of "Extremely Like," "Somewhat Like," "Neither Like Nor Dislike," "Somewhat Dislike" or "Extremely Dislike" for each of them.

I guess you could run a separate poll for each character with those choices, but damn that's a lot of polls! :D
 
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But.. don't we all just love polls?

Please pick one answer:

I love polls, they make me glow with joy!

I like em just fine, if I have a nice sandwich.

I neither care for them nor care against them.

Polls are dribble, why would I bother with something so unscientific.

Polls are like Ahab's harpoon poniarded through my eyes! Yes both eyes!
 
I had to go with Riker. He was a far more charming character. Plus (I know its sacrilege) but I really can't stand William Shatner's Kirk.
 
I find it odd that Kirk is being called a womanizer in relation to Riker. Take a look at the episodes and you'll find that Kirk has far fewer encounters than his reputation suggest. Moreover, in a lot of those instances, Kirk was in a life-death situation, and did what he was good at to save his crew.

Riker, on the other hand, is a roving Lothario. He has a much creepier smile (some might call it a rape face), and we should note that his character is just a thinly veiled repetition of Kirk's character (rearrange the letters). Riker was also comfortable doing something that Kirk had enough sense to never do - having sex with fellow officers and subordinates.
 
Someone start a poll. But you can't just include the traditional ones people rag on.

There's a difference between disliking a character and merely thinking them meh. Chuckles has a huge fanbase, no I am not one of them but I'm pretty much meh about him. I like Harry Kim. I am not bothered by Neelix, I quite enjoy him at times. I have little opinion of Wesley, certainly not enough to say "dislike". Sure I would rather he just wasn't in the show but I don't hate the guy.

Riker I disliked, to put it mildly.


well I don't think that's a very representative view.(which is fine of course, it's just that you seemed to assert that he was a very unpopular character) Obviously, characters like Data, Worf, and Picard are more popular from TNG, but I've never heard that Riker is very disliked by the fanbase. I think, as mentioned, Harry Kim, Neelix, Wesley Crusher, would all be much more likely candidates.
 
Someone start a poll. But you can't just include the traditional ones people rag on.

There's a difference between disliking a character and merely thinking them meh. Chuckles has a huge fanbase, no I am not one of them but I'm pretty much meh about him. I like Harry Kim. I am not bothered by Neelix, I quite enjoy him at times. I have little opinion of Wesley, certainly not enough to say "dislike". Sure I would rather he just wasn't in the show but I don't hate the guy.

Riker I disliked, to put it mildly.


well I don't think that's a very representative view.(which is fine of course, it's just that you seemed to assert that he was a very unpopular character) Obviously, characters like Data, Worf, and Picard are more popular from TNG, but I've never heard that Riker is very disliked by the fanbase. I think, as mentioned, Harry Kim, Neelix, Wesley Crusher, would all be much more likely candidates.

I have never asserted that Riker was an unpopular character. I have only said he is unpopular with me and on several occasions in past threads noted that this is not a common opinion.

The reason I said to include characters in the poll other than the usual unpopular suspects is because I know other people have characters they dislike that are generally considered popular. It's not about winning a poll.
 
Kirk would beat up Riker and take his lunch money.

NuKirk would beat up Riker and take his lunch money while laughing at him for being Enterprise first officer for over a decade, when Kirk himself went from first officer of the Enterprise to captain in about 35 minutes.
 
Someone start a poll. But you can't just include the traditional ones people rag on.

There's a difference between disliking a character and merely thinking them meh. Chuckles has a huge fanbase, no I am not one of them but I'm pretty much meh about him. I like Harry Kim. I am not bothered by Neelix, I quite enjoy him at times. I have little opinion of Wesley, certainly not enough to say "dislike". Sure I would rather he just wasn't in the show but I don't hate the guy.

Riker I disliked, to put it mildly.


well I don't think that's a very representative view.(which is fine of course, it's just that you seemed to assert that he was a very unpopular character) Obviously, characters like Data, Worf, and Picard are more popular from TNG, but I've never heard that Riker is very disliked by the fanbase. I think, as mentioned, Harry Kim, Neelix, Wesley Crusher, would all be much more likely candidates.

I have never asserted that Riker was an unpopular character. I have only said he is unpopular with me and on several occasions in past threads noted that this is not a common opinion.

The reason I said to include characters in the poll other than the usual unpopular suspects is because I know other people have characters they dislike that are generally considered popular. It's not about winning a poll.

your wording was "most disliked character in all of Trek." You didn't put "by me."

That's either pretty sloppy wording or deliberately deceptive wording.

Otherwise, why not just write "vs. MY least favorite character in all of Trek?"
 
Kirk would beat up Riker and take his lunch money.

NuKirk would beat up Riker and take his lunch money while laughing at him for being Enterprise first officer for over a decade, when Kirk himself went from first officer of the Enterprise to captain in about 35 minutes.

:guffaw:
 
Put my money on the Kirk, he's simply the best. I like Riker as well but they just didn't use the character well in TNG. They should have given him a ship at the end of BoBW and a spin-off series later on. Instead of Voyager, we could have had Star Trek: Titan a whole decade earlier; just mentioning the possibility brings a tear to my eye.
 
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