Uh oh! He either loved it or he hated it.
*keeps fingers crossed hoping for "loved it"*
Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread
- Thread starter Shatnertage
- Start date
Uh oh! He either loved it or he hated it.
*keeps fingers crossed hoping for "loved it"*
Well it all depends on how you consider the resolution was it a "Dues ex Machina"?
It fails the litmus test for at least several of the general qualifications to be considered one, as we had seen from the very first episode "Emissary" the ability of the Wormhole Aliens to influence objects within the wormhole.
As one of the key qualifications to be considered a "Dues ex Machina" is using a fantasical plot device that hasn't been previoulsy been introduced. (Yes I know there is a bit more to it than that)
It fails the litmus test for at least several of the general qualifications to be considered one, as we had seen from the very first episode "Emissary" the ability of the Wormhole Aliens to influence objects within the wormhole.
As one of the key qualifications to be considered a "Dues ex Machina" is using a fantasical plot device that hasn't been previoulsy been introduced. (Yes I know there is a bit more to it than that)
I am now ready to share my thoughts on...
"A Sacrifice of Angels"
It's been a few days since I've seen this, but I'll try to do it justice.
A while ago I read a book about screenwriting. There's a chance that I might get involved in a screenwriting project, and I wanted to learn a little about it. It's really helped me become a better viewer, because I can see a little bit more of what goes into the drama.
"A Sacrifice of Angels' uses lots of the best screenwriting techniques, and it uses them well.
For example, foreshadowing: Chekhov, I think, said that if you show a pair of dueling pistols in act one, you've got to have a duel in act three. From the moment that Dukat started playing with Sisko's baseball (not as dirty as it sounds), I figured that the last shot of the episode would be Sisko putting the baseball back on his desk. I never dreamed that they'd have him get the baseball back the way they did (see below), but they sure kept that promise.
Also, I liked the way Dukat became more obsessive with his ball-handling. Shades of Bogie in The Caine Mutiny. It was a subtle way at showing how, beneath his confident exterior, Dukat was getting progressively more anxious.
The space battle stuff, I know, appeals to other people more than it appeals to me. I appreciate the technical aspects, but it just doesn't move me emotionally, probably because it's so difficult to build drama out of Trek-type battles. The much-maligned "shields down to 47%" doesn't do it for me at all. Off the top of my mind, the best space battles I can think of were "Balance of Terror" and the Mutara Nebula sequence from TWOK. It's probably no coincidence that they're both more or less submarine battles ported into outer space.
Nice to see Odo get his groove back. And Rom, while he doesn't save the day completely, does help out.
Sisko's Last Stand got derailed by the Prophets. I can live with that. It was a bold move. You could have easily devised a technobabble solution (Sisko has the Defiant TECH its TECH while in the wormhole, creating a shockwave that destroys the Jem'Hadar but pushes the Defiant back out. Unless that was done very well, that would have been disappointing. Here, he sacrifices himself (though we only get a vague "not gonna make it to the Promised Land" hint) for the Alpha Quadrant. And he yells a lot. I liked the dynamics of the scene with the Prophets, how the characters on the station played into it.
What is difficult for me to accept is the death of Tora Ziyal. She's such a sweet character who's in an impossible situation...I guess it couldn't have ended any other way. Her death was very reminiscent of MU Jennifer Sisko's, but that didn't dull the wrenching emotional impact. Damar's going to be doing a lot more drinking for that one. And Dukat finally goes completely insane. I had joked to my wife before the episode started that we'd get to see Duakt get his comeuppance. I didn't think I'd hate it so much.
So, yeah, Sisko getting his baseball back wasn't nearly as triumphant as I imagined.
And poor Garak.
On the whole, the arc was well executed. Part 5 was a bit of a slowdown, but on the whole it was almost perfect. It was long enough to really draw you in, but not so long that it became a slog. We end up with most of the status quo restored, but some characters have changed considerably; Nog's now a lieutenant (I think), and Odo and Kira have seen their relationship turned upside down.
This is really good Trek. I tend to like the lighter-hearted stuff more than the serious stuff, but when it's executed as well as this, I can get past the alien makeup and really enjoy the drama of the show.
"A Sacrifice of Angels"
It's been a few days since I've seen this, but I'll try to do it justice.
A while ago I read a book about screenwriting. There's a chance that I might get involved in a screenwriting project, and I wanted to learn a little about it. It's really helped me become a better viewer, because I can see a little bit more of what goes into the drama.
"A Sacrifice of Angels' uses lots of the best screenwriting techniques, and it uses them well.
For example, foreshadowing: Chekhov, I think, said that if you show a pair of dueling pistols in act one, you've got to have a duel in act three. From the moment that Dukat started playing with Sisko's baseball (not as dirty as it sounds), I figured that the last shot of the episode would be Sisko putting the baseball back on his desk. I never dreamed that they'd have him get the baseball back the way they did (see below), but they sure kept that promise.
Also, I liked the way Dukat became more obsessive with his ball-handling. Shades of Bogie in The Caine Mutiny. It was a subtle way at showing how, beneath his confident exterior, Dukat was getting progressively more anxious.
The space battle stuff, I know, appeals to other people more than it appeals to me. I appreciate the technical aspects, but it just doesn't move me emotionally, probably because it's so difficult to build drama out of Trek-type battles. The much-maligned "shields down to 47%" doesn't do it for me at all. Off the top of my mind, the best space battles I can think of were "Balance of Terror" and the Mutara Nebula sequence from TWOK. It's probably no coincidence that they're both more or less submarine battles ported into outer space.
Nice to see Odo get his groove back. And Rom, while he doesn't save the day completely, does help out.
Sisko's Last Stand got derailed by the Prophets. I can live with that. It was a bold move. You could have easily devised a technobabble solution (Sisko has the Defiant TECH its TECH while in the wormhole, creating a shockwave that destroys the Jem'Hadar but pushes the Defiant back out. Unless that was done very well, that would have been disappointing. Here, he sacrifices himself (though we only get a vague "not gonna make it to the Promised Land" hint) for the Alpha Quadrant. And he yells a lot. I liked the dynamics of the scene with the Prophets, how the characters on the station played into it.
What is difficult for me to accept is the death of Tora Ziyal. She's such a sweet character who's in an impossible situation...I guess it couldn't have ended any other way. Her death was very reminiscent of MU Jennifer Sisko's, but that didn't dull the wrenching emotional impact. Damar's going to be doing a lot more drinking for that one. And Dukat finally goes completely insane. I had joked to my wife before the episode started that we'd get to see Duakt get his comeuppance. I didn't think I'd hate it so much.
So, yeah, Sisko getting his baseball back wasn't nearly as triumphant as I imagined.
And poor Garak.
On the whole, the arc was well executed. Part 5 was a bit of a slowdown, but on the whole it was almost perfect. It was long enough to really draw you in, but not so long that it became a slog. We end up with most of the status quo restored, but some characters have changed considerably; Nog's now a lieutenant (I think), and Odo and Kira have seen their relationship turned upside down.
This is really good Trek. I tend to like the lighter-hearted stuff more than the serious stuff, but when it's executed as well as this, I can get past the alien makeup and really enjoy the drama of the show.
And I'll follow with...
"You Are Cordially Invited"
Well, after all that serious drama, it's good to have some comedy, even if Worf has to act like a stick in the mud for most of it.
Some quick hits: I didn't like Alexander as a schmuck. I liked the meet cute between Martok and his wife. I really liked the "she doesn't like you scene" between Worf and Martok. Loved the name checking of Captain Boday.
The Klingon Bachelor Party was awesome. Again, well done by everyone. As Quark was laying out those plates of food for O'Brien and Bashir, you just knew they were going to get snatched away.
Then, all of the sudden, the episode turns into a party from a John Hughes movie. With a fire dancer. Who works for Captain Shelby? Did Elizabeth Shelby get a promotion?
Me and my wife came up with something that would have made the "morning after" scene the best scene in all of Trek, knocking out the teaser from "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy." Bear with me:
JADZIA wakes up and looks around her quarters. Refuse, party favors, and food are everywhere. Glumly, she picks a half-empty cup off of her glass-covered table.
Zoom in on a single eye, opened wide. JADZIA begins removing more items, until we see a face: MORN. He can be seen to scream (but not heard, because of the glass) "DAAAAX!"
If they did a shot-for-shot "homage" to Sixteen Candles there, this would have been the best episode ever. Bonus points, though, for Odo and Kira having their reunion in Dax's bathroom.
Other than that, it was a cute, funny episode.
"You Are Cordially Invited"
Well, after all that serious drama, it's good to have some comedy, even if Worf has to act like a stick in the mud for most of it.
Some quick hits: I didn't like Alexander as a schmuck. I liked the meet cute between Martok and his wife. I really liked the "she doesn't like you scene" between Worf and Martok. Loved the name checking of Captain Boday.
The Klingon Bachelor Party was awesome. Again, well done by everyone. As Quark was laying out those plates of food for O'Brien and Bashir, you just knew they were going to get snatched away.
Then, all of the sudden, the episode turns into a party from a John Hughes movie. With a fire dancer. Who works for Captain Shelby? Did Elizabeth Shelby get a promotion?
Me and my wife came up with something that would have made the "morning after" scene the best scene in all of Trek, knocking out the teaser from "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy." Bear with me:
JADZIA wakes up and looks around her quarters. Refuse, party favors, and food are everywhere. Glumly, she picks a half-empty cup off of her glass-covered table.
Zoom in on a single eye, opened wide. JADZIA begins removing more items, until we see a face: MORN. He can be seen to scream (but not heard, because of the glass) "DAAAAX!"
If they did a shot-for-shot "homage" to Sixteen Candles there, this would have been the best episode ever. Bonus points, though, for Odo and Kira having their reunion in Dax's bathroom.
Other than that, it was a cute, funny episode.
That was indeed Chekhov.
I absolutely LOVE the way the Prophets are used here. Instead of having Sisko and crew TECH their way out, or simply having another huge space battle at the station, they bring in an element of the show that's been hanging in the background since the very beginning and use it to great effect. The Alpha Quadrant is royally screwed and Sisko knows there is nothing he can do about it except to go into the wilderness and demand that the "gods" do something for a change. The scene of him convincing them to intervene is some of the show's best material, IMHO.
Combine the fact that "a penance" must now be paid by Sisko with the scene in Favor the Bold about how he plans to make a life for himself on Bajor, and it's quite clear that they want us to view Sisko as a Bajoran Moses - which you obviously picked up on with your "promised land" reference.
I love it.
I also love, though maybe that's not the right word here, the death of Ziyal. Dukat had previously insisted that Rom be executed because he was an enemy of the state and enemies of the state don't deserve mercy. Well, that sure came back to bite him in the ass, didn't it? Also, it's totally believable to me that Ziyal's death would break his connection to sanity.
It was intended as a reference to Elizabeth Shelby from The Best of Both Worlds. However, that massively contradicts the novels, in which Shelby is still a commander, I believe.
Of course, it could just be that there are two women with Shelby as a last name in the service. It is a big fleet after all.
That would have been.... .... .... .... AWESOME!
You Are Cordially Invited is a nice change of pace after the drama of the war arc. And I love Sirella. It's no secret that Jadzia is my least favorite character on the show, so the scenes of Sirella giving it to her as good as she gets are really nice for me.
Ziyal's death really got me, but she was sort of a doomed character from the start. And it's no wonder that her death was what broke Dukat.
I've always wondered how Dukhat's character Arc might have changed, had he succeeded in wooing Kira and they had gotten together in a relationship. Would her love have changed him and where his character went, or was his character arc inevitable, especially considering Ziyal's death?
Last edited:
Sacrifice of Angels is one hell of an episode for many reasons, but it's not without its problems. The Defiant being the only ship to break through the Dominion lines within 2 or so hours was mightily convenient. But still, it has some of my favourite moments from the show, particularly the destruction of the minefield. Trek had conditioned me to believe that the heroes would always save the day at the last second, so seeing them fail was something of a mind-fuck. I can understand why some don't like the Prophets' intervention, but if the alternative was having Rom cut the wire 2 seconds earlier it would have been far less interesting.
And it's not done yet.
See, we told you the baseball was symbolically important.
And it's not done yet.Not quite, he's an ensign.
It's a pity that they had to rewrite Sisko's final scene in the finale at Avery Brook's request. The original version where he was trapped in the wormhole forever fit so much better than the revised version where he promised to return. Now you have to choose to interpret that scene a certain way in order for the penance mentioned in Sacrifice of Angels to make sense.
After all that fun, I get to...
"Resurrection"
Blah. Just blah. This one wasn't particularly awful, but it wasn't very good. MU Naked Dream Boyfriend (that's what we call Bariel in my house) had some personality, but at some point you've got to ask yourself why anyone from the Prime Universe trusts anyone from the MU. They've been showing up every year like clockwork for six years now, and every time they do, they prove that they can't be trusted. Seriously.
It was really obvious that MU Shakaar was working a con. Would have been better to have had Kira work a "Counterpoint" type con on him at the same time, but that's not what happened.
Yeah, not too much to say about this one. I can't even remember if there was a B story.
Still thinking about Morn under the coffee table, and it's still funny.
"Resurrection"
Blah. Just blah. This one wasn't particularly awful, but it wasn't very good. MU Naked Dream Boyfriend (that's what we call Bariel in my house) had some personality, but at some point you've got to ask yourself why anyone from the Prime Universe trusts anyone from the MU. They've been showing up every year like clockwork for six years now, and every time they do, they prove that they can't be trusted. Seriously.
It was really obvious that MU Shakaar was working a con. Would have been better to have had Kira work a "Counterpoint" type con on him at the same time, but that's not what happened.
Yeah, not too much to say about this one. I can't even remember if there was a B story.
Still thinking about Morn under the coffee table, and it's still funny.
I think I just threw up a little bit.
I don't hate "Resurrection" with the vitriol I've seen some fans direct towards it, butt the sixth season does seem a little late to be bringing back Kira's love interest who died more than two and a half seasons ago.
I think the stretch of the next seven or eight episodes is pretty great, though. Season six is my favorite year of the show. It certainly has my two favorite episodes of the series ("Far Beyond the Stars" and "In The Pale Moonlight") as well as my favorite arc (which you just finished).
I think the stretch of the next seven or eight episodes is pretty great, though. Season six is my favorite year of the show. It certainly has my two favorite episodes of the series ("Far Beyond the Stars" and "In The Pale Moonlight") as well as my favorite arc (which you just finished).
Kira's boyfriends were rather interchangeable, weren't they.
^ Oh man, I don't believe I did that. She certainly goes for the eminent Bajoran religious/political figures.
There is one positive thing I did glean from Resurrection: Worf's subtle character change. It seems married life has lightened him up a little, taking MU Bakaar's shenanigans at dinner with good humor. Old Worf would probably have fussed and pouted over putting up with him.
And there you'd completely assassinate Kira's character by lowering her to that level.
Exactly.
As for Resurrection - I like it. However, that's probably because we avoid the usual foolishness of the MU by having it set entirely in the Prime Universe. And, I like that we actually get a Bareil that's, you know, animated. Seriously, Philip Anglim does a much, much better job with Mirror Bareil than he ever did with the prime version.
You guys misunderstand, I wouldn't want to change either of their character arcs, I like where they both went, including Dukhat S7, which some didn't care for at all and especially where her love life went.
It was merely a pondering of if it would have changed him, not something I would've liked to have seen changed in the show.
It was merely a pondering of if it would have changed him, not something I would've liked to have seen changed in the show.
Yeah, Mirror Bariel is way more interesting/animated than Bariel Prime. Not that it takes much really ...
Another agreement here. The idea of Dukat changing and becoming a better person is a perfectly fine concept, but it shouldn't come at the expense of other characters or in a way that makes light of Dukat's history, otherwise it's not a positive change for the character at all - more like feeding into his own delusion that he's a great and misunderstood guy. Compromise couldn't work here, and wouldn't work without destroying the Kira character's integrity. For Kira to have any respect for Dukat at all, he would have to prove himself to her, rather than she accepting him in any way as he currently is. She can't move her position here; he has to do the work (and a great deal of work it is!). We know Kira accepts the potential for change -
witness her genuine desire to see Winn become a better person, and her disappointment when Winn ultimately rejects her near-revelation
Similar threads
