The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[Trekker4747]

Here's the Season 5 title card. Interestingly enough, it looks like they kept the original starfield, but the streak photography element (reminiscent of the kind used in the credits of Superman: The Movie, Superman II, etc.) doesn't match or the timing is off for this frame. They also composited it too bright, so the series title is more difficult to read:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/104549

And the blue glow on the left is gone, so we can assume it's gone on the end credits too.

As more-or-less said above, since they likely don't still have the original film elements of when they recorded the lettering streaking in the depths of space the title cards are almost likely completely re-done.

Also, if you find the new title card "difficult to read" I might suggest you cease driving and seek an eye doctor.

 

[Beatnik]

I'm surprised that there's been so little discussion on the dramatically improved matte shot of the city from Inner Light.

 

[RAMA]

Here's the Season 5 title card. Interestingly enough, it looks like they kept the original starfield, but the streak photography element (reminiscent of the kind used in the credits of Superman: The Movie, Superman II, etc.) doesn't match or the timing is off for this frame. They also composited it too bright, so the series title is more difficult to read:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/104549

And the blue glow on the left is gone, so we can assume it's gone on the end credits too.

As more-or-less said above, since they likely don't still have the original film elements of when they recorded the lettering streaking in the depths of space the title cards are almost likely completely re-done.

Also, if you find the new title card "difficult to read" I might suggest you cease driving and seek an eye doctor.

Its not too bright, its just clearer as far as I can tell.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Ha, yes!! I noticed this too - although I'm sure this is primarily down to the change in the lighting on the show after the 2nd season.

Yeah, when Marvin Rush took over for Ed Brown as Director of Photography, the style he used had more fill lighting in the shadows. Jonathan West in seasons 6 & 7 used even more! Especially the bridge. It just gets brighter and brighter and brighter as the show goes on. Then in Generations it's dramatically lit again! That was Chinatown DP John Alonzo, by the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_light

As I am watching season 1 all the way through, I am noticing how much more cinematic the show was back in 87 as opposed to the early 90's. The show had a very unique feel in terms of direction, sound and style. Interesting that it lost that along its way.

Amazing, I've been saying this all along. Now if they had the 1-2 season look to go with the other's stories...

RAMA

 

[Hober Mallow]

Re: the blue glow on the right side during the end credits, I don't remember ever seeing that at all during the original run. A few years ago I caught the tail end of a TNG episode, and when I saw the credits, all I could think was, "What the f*ck is that blue sh*t? Are the video masters really that f*cked up?" Maybe it was always there and I assumed it was my TV's rabbit ears not adjusted well enough.

The 3rd and 5th season main titles will be interesting to see. I always thought that ringed planet curiously resembling a jack-o-lantern was actually a model (minus the rings). I'll be interesting to see what kind of detail it has, assuming they've kept it in the shot.

 

[RAMA]

What about the weird square black boxes sprinkled throughout? And no windows on the saucer rim? And the fact that it has the same weird glow around the saucer edge that we see in the acknowledged CGI work from Sins of the Father?

Dude, what do you want me to say? I put the two images in photoshop, overlaid one on the other and they match EXACTLY. It's the original footage but over manipulated.

I guess if you're the expert, but they really don't look anything alike.

It looks like a new model, however, the old one was badly composited!! They actually cut off parts of the nacelle struts. The new one looks much better.

RAMA

 

[Maxwell Everett]

Here's the Season 5 title card. Interestingly enough, it looks like they kept the original starfield, but the streak photography element (reminiscent of the kind used in the credits of Superman: The Movie, Superman II, etc.) doesn't match or the timing is off for this frame. They also composited it too bright, so the series title is more difficult to read:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/104549

And the blue glow on the left is gone, so we can assume it's gone on the end credits too.

As more-or-less said above, since they likely don't still have the original film elements of when they recorded the lettering streaking in the depths of space the title cards are almost likely completely re-done.

Also, if you find the new title card "difficult to read" I might suggest you cease driving and seek an eye doctor.

I said, "more difficult to read" .

Nevertheless, based on how soft this Season 5 title card appears, I'm inclined to believe it's incorporating some original elements. For instance, it doesn't line up at all with the obviously new Season 1-4/6-7 title card that is -- as expected -- sharp as a tack and obviously a slightly different typeface and kerning:

 

[RAMA]

I'm surprised that there's been so little discussion on the dramatically improved matte shot of the city from Inner Light.

Well I posted it for all to see. Its a quick scene which probably doesn't get enough credit for adding to the episode's scope.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

Thanks to the fact that they kept using the same matte painting of Deneb IV multiple times, here's an expanded version of the Enterprise & Hood shot:

 

[RAMA]

Re cost of sets: Trek fans have always gotten gouged out the wazoo on dvds. Trek is one of a handful of shows whose season sets routinely MSRP for over $100.

Most are $35-50 at most.

And my stock answer, having chatted to some DVD marketing people, is:

Shows like "The Sopranos" have no special effects budget. The costumes can be "off the rack". The sets and furnishings can be hired from stores. It's a cheaper drama to make.

"Star Trek" is a quality product, highly coveted by its many fans. It is *not* necessarily price gouging to have a higher cost for something in high demand. These prices are well researched for the marketing plan. When they get the price wrong it either sits on shelves or flies out the door.

The reason why Star Trek, in DVD boxed season sets, were originally at such a high price point was to temper demand. If the price was originally lower, or equal, to other series, demand would be such that the stores could not keep it in stock and there would be anger from all points (Remember the "Mini Beanie Baby riots in McDonald's stores? Trucks being held up? Demand overwhelmed supply, because the items were so cheap but highly desirable).

Tiered pricing means that the first wave of a release is at maximum. Diehard collectors buy it. Then a few months later, the recommended retail price drops to the second tier. More people can afford it. About a year later, it drops again. Now lots of people can afford it. Then off to bargain tables. Everyone can afford it. By then, a new, improved product, with new bonus features, comes out at Tier One. And so on. Then the fans scream "Double dip!", but forgetting that it's been several years since the previous release, packaging styles have changes, etc. Stores don't want to carry old, stale stuff. So without new versions, "Star Trek" would simply go "out of print".

Trek is more popular than "Stargate", "Babylon Five" or "Battlestar Galactica". So the price for Trek is usually higher. CBS shareholders would not want to see their quality product being given away at bargain prices when they know they have the popular product. And DVD manufacturers, warehouses and retailers could not adequately meet demand if everybody who wanted ST could afford to buy it on Day 1.

Great post, Sensible.

 

[RAMA]

Thanks to the fact that they kept using the same matte painting of Deneb IV multiple times, here's an expanded version of the Enterprise & Hood shot:

Made its smaller, brightened it up, and removed some noise, and it works great.

 

[Brikar99]

Thanks to the fact that they kept using the same matte painting of Deneb IV multiple times, here's an expanded version of the Enterprise & Hood shot:

Made its smaller, brightened it up, and removed some noise, and it works great.

...Is that your desktop? Would I seem stupid in asking what OS you're using?

 

[Sho]

...Is that your desktop? Would I seem stupid in asking what OS you're using?

That's Windows with Rainmeter.

 

[Brikar99]

...Is that your desktop? Would I seem stupid in asking what OS you're using?

That's Windows with Rainmeter.

Upon further inspection, I saw the Windows logo up at the top (I'm glad I have such great observational skills...) I haven't used a Windows newer than Vista (at work) and I'm a Mac user at home, but there's some pretty slick widgets going on there.

 

[davejames]

I absolutely LOVE the brighter new transporter effect they're using. It actually looks like there's some real energy being generated now.

It also reminds me a lot more of the movie-style effect, which has always been my favorite.

 

[davejames]

Here's the Season 5 title card. Interestingly enough, it looks like they kept the original starfield, but the streak photography element (reminiscent of the kind used in the credits of Superman: The Movie, Superman II, etc.) doesn't match or the timing is off for this frame. They also composited it too bright, so the series title is more difficult to read:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/104549

And the blue glow on the left is gone, so we can assume it's gone on the end credits too.

Wow, I totally forgot about that cheesy streaking effect. Clearly it's been awhile since I've seen any eps from that season.

 

[Brikar99]

I absolutely LOVE the brighter new transporter effect they're using. It actually looks like there's some real energy being generated now.

It also reminds me a lot more of the movie-style effect, which has always been my favorite.

That was one of the first things that came to mind, too, at least in the still image.

 

[RAMA]

...Is that your desktop? Would I seem stupid in asking what OS you're using?

That's Windows with Rainmeter.

Upon further inspection, I saw the Windows logo up at the top (I'm glad I have such great observational skills...) I haven't used a Windows newer than Vista (at work) and I'm a Mac user at home, but there's some pretty slick widgets going on there.

Yup just started using it a few days ago, can still use some tweaking.

RAMA

 

[JJohnson]

Episodes I can think of right away that needed better staged shots are "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Q Who", "Redemption" (this one in particular. We are told the blockade was a total of 30 Federation ships, and we got to see, 3 kitbashes on screen? Is is really acceptable from a "purist" point of view? Wouldn't you rather see the 30 ships on screen since it would be so easy to recreate them in CGI?)

Redemption is a really bad example since it would make no sense to see all the ships in the shot because they're spread out over light years to secure the border.

As for the Warbirds, they do lack presence, but that's because they never actually do anything in TNG.

Redemption is a good example, because at the beginning of the trip to the Neutral Zone, all the ships are together in a convoy. I'd like to see more than 3, not all 30 are necessary, but they have a chance to CGI in at least 10-12 or more ships.

The Warbirds were always shown as confrontational, and this is only because of the budget they had (couldn't keep showing battles, too much money to keep blowing up models).

And this really is my biggest gripe with the whole concept of keeping it "true to the original".

It was only "original" because they didn't have the budget do massively upscaled battle sequences. A good example would be "The Survivors". They actually did a great job with the battle sequences there, but only because I understand that for the time, this was a huge undertaking! and I was happy to get that much on screen. That battle would be more kick ass if they actually have the ships do more on screen.

I still have my hopes that they will. Keeping it "true to the original" can mean true to the original intent.

Think of TOS-R's "The Doomsday Machine". I know the casual viewer who remembers the original episode was blown away by the remake. I know my dad was, he loves TOS, but now he adores it. I believe TOS-R stayed true to the series, as the same scenes were kept but updated (like the more realistic matte paintings, etc). When the episode needed it though, like in Doomsday Machine, they freakin' delivered! Why can't they do the same with TNG. I'd be happy if they keep everything the same, but enhance the scenes with the Borg Battles, key scenes with Romulans, and the last fight with the Klingons in AGT.

From what I've seen so far, the remastering is worth buying the Blu-ray sets when they come out, so they already got me hooked. I'm a beggar and I can complain, but I'll take anything better than what's there now.

I agree - the matte paintings and planets were amazing in TOS-R, all other things aside. The Menagerie had people in the background, little shuttles flying by when Kirk was in the office, etc. Everything just looked more realistic. The planets were just amazing! I loved it! I sincerely hope that's the kind of treatment TNG will be getting - realistic mattes, more realistic planets (weather patterns, blooms from their suns, reflections onto the ship, etc), and hopefully the monochromatic skies of the 'planets' will get some clouds and digital extensions (The Cage, in the Mojave with Pike and Vina on picnic).

 

[JJohnson]

I'm surprised that there's been so little discussion on the dramatically improved matte shot of the city from Inner Light.

Well I posted it for all to see. Its a quick scene which probably doesn't get enough credit for adding to the episode's scope.

Not much to say other than it looked awesome! I can't wait to see it in HD. I hope to see more of this...like the colony from Best of Both Worlds - rather than a redress of the cave, let's see some of the burnt out colony's remains around them. I can tell it's very obviously matted in there, so when that gets updated, I'm hoping they'll take the time to update it.