Anime is dying

[zakkrusz]

It doesn't work. It's been tried by numerous companies but they just don't get the sales and either end up backrupt or abandoning that tactic for more of a compromise. The fact is the majority of people want multiple language options and have spoken with their money. Bilingual is the best because then everyone is happy, the subbies get their subs, the dubbies get their dubs and I'm ecstatic because I love both.

I figured that the only people who would be willing to pay high prices for anime would be hardcore fans and hardcore fans typically prefer things more pure. I just assumed that the biggest problem is the anime industry trying to achieve mainstream success in the West rather than being happy with their smaller, hardcore audience. Of course, I know very little about anime fan demographics and sales figures, so I could easily be wrong.

Sub-only stuff really only brings in the hardcore fans, but the problem is their income alone is not enough for the company to profit from a series after what it cost to buy the rights to release the series, this is really what drives up anime's domestic price the most here in the states. They also need to attract sales from the regular fans as well, and the light casual fans if they want profit. If they don't get profit they don't have funds to buy the next series.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

The problem is that the hardcores are so... militant. But what they forget is that dubs keep interest. We need both to keep anime around.
I, for one, don't tend to watch subbed stuff. I have neither the time nor the patience when I have to pause every five minutes or so.

 

[Lighthammer]

I only read the first few pages and last few pages of this thread, so please pardon me if I am talking about stuff that has already been addressed.

Anime serves a weird nitch in society that has been most important over the years. The big thing a lot of people tend to forget is Anime was originally an attempt to replicate the success of Western Animation by taking the good creativity that was used and then refining it. Now, after about 10 years of the anime boom in North America, we've learned a lot from Japan and we are now producing Western Animation that is better then anything we had before the Anime boom of the late 90s and early 2000s.

What people wholly neglect to realize is ultimately this whole interchange has created collective collaboration between the Western and Eastern philosophies and art of story telling. Both cultures have improved greatly as a result of these booms.

Look at the series we've been producing as a result of influence and competition with Anime:

• Transformers Prime
• GI Joe Renegades
• Thunder Cats (2011)
• Young Justice
• Batman Beyond
• Justice League
• He-Man (2003)
• Avatar: The Last Airbender

There are any number of major examples, but these are just a small smattering of premium series that became immensely popular and have been heavily influenced by Anime.

Now something people often don't realize is that we have essentially worked through the backlog of the premium animes that rocked Japanese culture. Japan produces a ton of animes and many of them are never heard of by Westerns because most of them suck. Likewise, the same is true in Japan, a lot of less-then-premium series in the US never make it to Japan for the same reason.

This is great because in essence it weeds out the bad series and allows each side of animation to truly learn from the great things the other has done.

We're not in a lau because Anime is dying, its simply that the new things we are producing are impressing Japan just like their stuff impressed us.

Watch, in a few years we very well might see a slingshot in the other direction again.

 

[zakkrusz]

The problem is that the hardcores are so... militant. But what they forget is that dubs keep interest. We need both to keep anime around.
I, for one, don't tend to watch subbed stuff. I have neither the time nor the patience when I have to pause every five minutes or so.

Well, it is a bit more relaxing to listen to dialog rather than reading it I'd agree. I go more by a case to case basis though. Sometimes the Japanese is better and sometimes I like the English dub better. For instance I can't watch Crest of the Stars in English because the dub has some seriously poor acting, but on the other hand there are series I think the dub is superior to the original such as Black Lagoon because English actors can speak English better than Japanese VAs (and certainly swear like sailors in English better ). Either way, unless I have particular preference for a series, I tend to alternate my viewing of series when I rewatch things. For instance if I streamed the series on the net subtitled first, after I bought it and watched it next I would then watch it dubbed.

 

[AFEK ESLCAFE W]

To put it simply, many western audiences are tired of just seeing fancily drawn or rendered images on screen but also want ample story content and character development.

 

[Forbin]

I think certain titles, like Black Lagoon, are made with American audiences in mind from the start. Anime producers know they've got an international market.

 

[bullethead]

I think certain titles, like Black Lagoon, are made with American audiences in mind from the start. Anime producers know they've got an international market.

I think it's more like they are made by people who've been exposed to American media and are thus able to come up with content that can appeal to people outside the usual anime fanbase. That certainly was the case for Tiger and Bunny.

Then there's people who just make something that doesn't include a lot of the stuff that turns people off to anime (like ridiculous fanservice). For example, Bodacious Space Pirates, despite the name, is based on a series of light novels that are essentially full of the written equivalent of the Enterprise Reveal sequence in TMP and the anime is the least fanservicey thing ever. It does have highly attractive female characters in it, but they all wear clothes and are competent.

 

[zakkrusz]

I think certain titles, like Black Lagoon, are made with American audiences in mind from the start. Anime producers know they've got an international market.

Maybe, although, Black Lagoon was also a financial success in Japan as well.

 

[Brainsucker]

Anime is, and always will be, the very stuff of nightmares. You look at it initially, and wonder why anyone got so far into it’s abysmal lack off value. There is nothing for it to go off of except smut and story lines dedicated to twisting the perception of the viewer. The oldest anime was crudely made and devoid of any originalityAnime, is to some, better than all other forms of entertainment. These people called ‘otaku’ (who spend an inordinate amount of time watching these lackluster cartoons) don’t seem to realize that they could be better using their hours contributing to a much higher purpose in life. We get to have these wee years in our childhoods for cartoons and toys, before we know any better, then we need to move on to more important matters. A man, especially a man, is nothing, when all he can conceivably do is watch either some vomit-inducing, moe, ecchi, hentai, or play eroge dating games while committing autoerotism in front o his PC storing many GB of pirated data
Yet, I can see what would get a poor soul into anime. Manga also. It has to do with a lack of acceptance. A huge lack of belonging and desire to interact with other human beings. This mental disorder of delving into an inexcusably tawdry form of escape just goes to show how much it hurts for some people to be alive. I can sympathize, but don’t much care to leave it be that what some people do is acceptable by any social standard. When all a person does is gawk at a screen with animated characters for most of his/her life, they are unmistakably degenerates.
Anime will die off, then maybe rebuild from the debris of an era where Japan was the home of corrupt businessmen. It could be worthy of reproach, perhaps rivaling Disney’s reign of racist and hidden sexual imagery.

So be careful what you show to your children. They just might become otaku some day if you mistake an anime for a sweetly ”innocent” American cartoon.

I won't surprised if I read this statement from another forum or place. But to read this from a star trek forum? Come on. Everyone have their own problem. I have even heard that some people call Star Trek fans as trekkies or nerd (I think it is almost the same as Otaku, and they are even cosplay with star trek uniform too). So why not everyone here just respect to others and not brand them as a worst kind of human being?

 

[Greylock Crescent]

L'animé est mort. Vive l'animé!

 

[Samurai8472]

The problem is that the hardcores are so... militant. But what they forget is that dubs keep interest. We need both to keep anime around.
I, for one, don't tend to watch subbed stuff. I have neither the time nor the patience when I have to pause every five minutes or so.

I like watching Japanese live action shows subbed.

Obviously things are a bit easier when there's live actors.

However I feel that if it weren't for the dubbed version of Gundam 00 season 1 and 2 I wouldn't have been as interested in it if it were subbed.

Dubbed really made a difference

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Live is a bit different. We all know of the hilariously dubbed Godzilla movies.

 

[Set Harth]

We get to have these wee years in our childhoods for cartoons and toys, before we know any better, then we need to move on to more important matters.

Wouldn't you love to see this poster's TV/film viewing history?

I just want to know what exactly qualifies as "more important matters".

 

[ZeroArmour]

Why is it some people always have to take the lowest common denominator and use it to justify some crazy rant. Most anime isn't kiddie porn, much is quite entertaining, some is even so well written you'd think it came from one of the great writers of our age.

Maybe the problem lies with the OP, not the subject?

 

[CorporalClegg]

It doesn't work. It's been tried by numerous companies but they just don't get the sales and either end up backrupt or abandoning that tactic for more of a compromise. The fact is the majority of people want multiple language options and have spoken with their money. Bilingual is the best because then everyone is happy, the subbies get their subs, the dubbies get their dubs and I'm ecstatic because I love both.

I figured that the only people who would be willing to pay high prices for anime would be hardcore fans and hardcore fans typically prefer things more pure. I just assumed that the biggest problem is the anime industry trying to achieve mainstream success in the West rather than being happy with their smaller, hardcore audience. Of course, I know very little about anime fan demographics and sales figures, so I could easily be wrong.

Sub-only stuff really only brings in the hardcore fans, but the problem is their income alone is not enough for the company to profit from a series after what it cost to buy the rights to release the series, this is really what drives up anime's domestic price the most here in the states. They also need to attract sales from the regular fans as well, and the light casual fans if they want profit. If they don't get profit they don't have funds to buy the next series.

The problem is, these days, the hardcores are about all that's left.

Anime just isn't as popular as it was five/ten years ago. Trying to make it accessable to as many people as possible isn't really the best of ideas these ideas.

 

[zakkrusz]

The more accessible it is, the more people you can attract. The more people you can attract, the more money you can make off them. The more money you make the more anime you can license. A fanbase can not grow without new blood, so feed the beast.

 

[AFEK ESLCAFE W]

Take away the "aura" that surrounded Japan during their economic boom a few years ago, and people are not so willing to flock to "the mysteriousness and the mystique of the Far East" and objectively rate each anime based on their objective merits of quality.

A lot of that fancy, hand-drawn Japanese animation was crap when it came to character development and story. Also, the corny dialogue and awkward cultural differences that did not translate well to western understanding and sensibilities.

People wised up and got fed up.

 

[Brainsucker]

I love Gundam Unicorn. Don't care if the others hate it.

 

[LitmusDragon]

Since this has kind of turned into the Anime thread I'll just post this here. I've recently been watching Eden of the East, or as I like to call it, Cellphones: The Series. Seriously, almost every scene involves a cell phone in some way. It's actually a pretty good show, just weirdly cellphone-obsessive.

 

[Admiral2]

Since this has kind of turned into the Anime thread I'll just post this here. I've recently been watching Eden of the East, or as I like to call it, Cellphones: The Series. Seriously, almost every scene involves a cell phone in some way. It's actually a pretty good show, just weirdly cellphone-obsessive.

I've never seen it, but from what I've heard I thought cell phones were integral to the story...