Is Generations REALLY That Bad???

[AdmiralScreed]

I'm starting to think that a lot of the Generations hate comes from TOS fans who dislike TNG. I think these people are searching for a way to bash TNG without it seeming unfair, and so they take something like the death of Kirk (which was REALLY poorly executed), blow it completely out of proportion, and use it to bash the entire film. It's completely unfair, and it tarnishes the reputation of an otherwise good film.

I grew up watching TNG, and a lot of the problems I had with Generations are because of that. The beloved characters of the show were twisted into unrecognizable jokes; such as seeing Picard, the man who hated kids and couldn't understand why Starfleet had given him a ship full of children, suddenly weeping because he didn't have a family. Data's quest to become human was a favorite character arc of the show, Generations turned it into an unending, torturous gag of Data being 'funny.'

The gaping plot holes were another. Soran has to blow up a sun to get into the Nexus, why couldn't he put on a spacesuit and have a ship shoot him into the Nexus? Or pilot a ship into the Nexus? Why did he have to use such a convoluted plan?

You can go anywhere and any time in the Nexus, yet Picard decides that the best time to go to in order to stop Soran would be a few minutes before Soran shoots the rocket. Even though this gives him less time to stop Soran.

Watching the Enterprise, the most advanced ship in the fleet, getting it's ass handed to it from a outdated BoP. I know the explanation given is that the BoP had their shield frequency, but don't starships have the ability to change shield frequencies? I recall episodes where they rotate through different frequencies. They couldn't do this?

Also, the movie is just lazy and half-assed. The mis-matched uniforms, the recycled screenshot of the BoP exploding (taken from UC), and of course, Kirk's death.

I'm a fan of TNG and I just didn't like this film. While I understand it's certainly not the worse Trek film, it's definitely far from the best. I don't think you need to be a hater of TNG to hate this film, the film has enough problems of it's own.

That's a fair critique of the film. Most of the problems that you mentioned were not things that bothered me (the plot holes didn't bother me one bit), but nevertheless I can see where you are coming from.

In that post, I was referring to the people who only criticize GEN for the death of Kirk. These people ignore pretty much the entire film except for that one moment, and then they label it as one of the worst films in the franchise. IMO, the only people who can fairly critique this movie are fans of the TNG television series. We're the most familiar with the characters and the canon, unlike a few snobbish TOS fans who just want to bash TNG because it's not quite to their liking.

I should also point out that since I wasn't born until 1994 I didn't grow up with TNG, so I didn't go into this movie with extremely high expectations. At the time I first watched GEN I knew that it wasn't very popular, so when it ended being pretty good I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[Broccoli]

Wasting Malcom McDowell in a thankless one-dimensional role was not getting off on the right foot.

But doesn't that comprise 98% of Malcom McDowell's body of work?

 

[Harvey]

Wasting Malcom McDowell in a thankless one-dimensional role was not getting off on the right foot.

But doesn't that comprise 98% of Malcom McDowell's body of work?

Too true. The man loves to work, which often has consequences. He's been in some great movies over the years, though.

 

[CoveTom]

I like a lot about Generations. I don't think it's a great film, but I don't think it's a horrible one. Some aspects, like the music, I think are horribly underrated.

But what I still cannot wrap my brain around is that people continue to rave about the cinematography. Ugh. I think the film, at least the parts set on board ships, looks awful. I know John Alanzo is supposed to be a master, and I know they were trying to make the Enterprise look different and more dramatic. But I think they failed horribly. In some places, looks way too dark. In other places, it just looks weird.

 

[Harvey]

It certainly doesn't look like the series, especially the bright look established by season three. But it still works for me -- wonderfully so. Granted, the dark lighting is anything but functional, but it's a movie, not reality.

 

[Andymator]

I strongly feel that Star Trek was and is made for kids. It's juvenile and fun and smart and imaginative, and in 1994 I was an eleven year old boy who loved Generations.

I can only imagine the kind of pressure those guys were under to make something on a truly impressive scale with a constrictive budget and a laundry list of edicts from the suits.

Of course as an adult I can find all kinds of silly little things that don't really matter to criticize about the movie, but they're all so totally inconsequential to that kid in the theater just enjoying the ride. They did a great job crafting a great Star Trek movie.

 

[Captrek]

How it should have happened:

PICARD: ...so what I propose is that we exit the Nexus just before I entered it, beat up Soran, stop him from launching the rocket, and save Veridian.

KIRK: It sounds like this whole situation started when Enterprise-B beamed Soran and a number of other El-Aurians out of the Nexus when they would rather have stayed. I’ll exit the Nexus just before I entered it and leave the El-Aurians alone, Veridian will never be endangered in the first place, and I’ll get my life back.

PICARD: That would alter the past 78 years of history.

KIRK: Not from my perspective. This just happened. It’s not my problem if you’re never born.

PICARD: But...

KIRK: Bye!

(Kirk returns to the 23rd century. TNG is erased from history.)​

 

[RAMA]

I'm starting to think that a lot of the Generations hate comes from TOS fans who dislike TNG. I think these people are searching for a way to bash TNG without it seeming unfair, and so they take something like the death of Kirk (which was REALLY poorly executed), blow it completely out of proportion, and use it to bash the entire film. It's completely unfair, and it tarnishes the reputation of an otherwise good film.

I grew up watching TNG, and a lot of the problems I had with Generations are because of that. The beloved characters of the show were twisted into unrecognizable jokes; such as seeing Picard, the man who hated kids and couldn't understand why Starfleet had given him a ship full of children, suddenly weeping because he didn't have a family. Data's quest to become human was a favorite character arc of the show, Generations turned it into an unending, torturous gag of Data being 'funny.'

T

To be fair, Picard had already changed in STNG over the seasons with kids, he was not the same uncomfortable Picard from season 1. Plus, he loved his nephew and probably could see a future explorer in him. I don't have a problem with that in the story.

I do have issues with Data's story being rewound back almost to season 2.

 

[CoveTom]

It certainly doesn't look like the series, especially the bright look established by season three. But it still works for me -- wonderfully so. Granted, the dark lighting is anything but functional, but it's a movie, not reality.

Well, I'll admit that I really would prefer to see the Enterprise-D look the same way she did in the series, only on a bigger and grander scale. But, really, my problem is not that they changed the lighting. It's that, honestly, I think the lighting is so low at times as to make viewing the film difficult. They were going for "moody and dramatic" but I think they just ended up with "really, really dark."

 

[VOODOOXI]

Generations was a lost oppritunity...It should have been a fun adventure that united the casts of TOS and TNG and passed the torch on a happy note...Instead we got a somber film and to attend Kirk's funeral for no apparent reason. Did I mention that the nexus is the worst plot device in the history of cinema?

 

[Hober Mallow]

The biggest problem with Generations is that Moore and Braga set up the characters of Kirk and Picard and then completely reverse their character motivations, totally destroying the film.

Kirk is set up at the beginning fo the film to be unhappy in retirement, to want to be back in action making a difference. In stark contrast, Picard has become regretful that his life as a starship captain has kept him from having a family on earth.

So what happens when they go into the nexus, which is suppose to give them their hearts' desires? Kirk gets Picard's wish of a quiet retirement, putting Starfleet behind, finding someone to spend his life with, maybe start a family, and Picard has to convince Kirk to get back in action.

Huh?

The way the film was set up, it should have been Kirk trying to convince Picard to go back and face his responsibilities. It's like a different group of writers took over the third act of the film, ones who hadn't actually bothered to read the first two acts of the script.

 

[MasuPu'a]

I'm not even sure why Picard needed Kirk to go back. Sure, Picard lost to Soran the first round, but it seems like Kirk didn't really help in the end, besides adding a punch or two and then dying. It's almost as if Picard just needed Kirk there to present another target to Soran and then die. Kirk's role in the end was pretty much that of a redshirt.

And I find that incredibly disappointing. You have two of the greatest captains in Starfleet together and they couldn't come up with some brilliant plan and awesome end fight? Both have their different styles; it would have been interesting to see them combine their strengths and working together. In fact, the whole 'Kirk and Picard team up' bit should have been much longer, it felt like a footnote in the film. Way to short, there should have been more time devoted to this in the movie.

 

[Andymator]

Come on guys, even as a kid I understood that the film isn't about Kirk, it's about Picard. And his motivations are completely coherent.

- Picard is content and satisfied with the solitary life he's chosen as a starfleet captain.

- Renee and Robert are killed.

- Picard now regrets his solitary life, as his family will not continue into the future.

- Picard is tempted by the nexus giving him what he wants, but is smart/strong enough to resist.

- The wise and experienced Kirk provides the insight and perspective Picard needs to come to terms with the loss of his family. Without this insight, Picard would have still gone back and tried to stop Soran because he's so smart/strong, the only difference is that now he won't be all mopey and regretful at the end.

- They save the day, and Picard gives a nice little speech to Riker about how we can't live in regret, and need to appreciate what we have.

Kirk is only there as a glorified cameo. He's a plot device in the film.

 

[TroiFan4ever]

PROS:
I LOOOOVVE Star Trek: Generations! I mean, it's such an underrated film. I really like the whole "two legendary Starfleet captains join forces to stop a mad scientist from destroying a star" shibang.

The woman pictured in my avatar FINALLY gets the conn! Interesting as *points left* SHE never drove the ship before.

What I really like is how at the end of the movie Picard goes back to his TNG uniform. More importantly, I like the gist of what he was telling Riker when after he helps him find his book under the Ready Room debris -- The most important part about time (which had heavy focus in "All Good Things..." which was before this movie) and life is about how you lived it now. I think that's what Picard was saying. I was also intrigued about how Picard cares more about his family book than about his ship being crashed.

Speaking of that scene, the small sandy artifact that Riker picks up... it looks like something out of the "Masks" episode.

When Data was like "Oh... shit!" Epic. Freaking. WIN!

I feel bad for that yellow-shirt crewmember who got his face blown off but I was FLOORED when the Aft Science Station blew up in his face and sent him across the Tactical Station.


CONS:
One of my big complains is that I had with the movie was the way they edited the movie! I keep watching the deleted scenes on YouTube, particularly of the crash scene which pertained to the following;

• Data helps Troi off the floor and back into the Conn/Helm
• Picard's family book lands on the Ready Room floor
• The man in gray and woman in a blue uniform are stocking stuff...
• Worf busts open an emergency storage locker, and takes out a palm beacon to throw to Data and gets one for himself. He then helps a crewmember in the seat where Riker usually sits in.
• Geordi and that other girl keeps asking the kids if they're alright
• Geordi asks the kids if they've ever made a tent before

He is such an annoying douche bag anyway but would someone be so kind as to please explain to me why Q, of all people, wasn't in this epic movie? I understand First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis but GENERATIONS?

I really liked the D-Enterprise! It looks so much more beautiful than the Sovereign-Class E-Enterprise. Thanks a lot, Troi!

Seriously? I really wish Troi would PLEASE loose the bangs, especially because she's wearing her uniform. Her hair looked better in the more elaborate fluffy more-formal fashion.

I would've also liked to have seen Alexander, Eric (the bird-artist in "Masks"), Lwaxanna (however you spell her name), and even Barclay even though I'm not too crazy about him either.


NEUTRAL:
I'm glad that at least Troi wore her uniform in this whole movie, except for the pirate holodeck scene, but I would've loved to have seen at least one shot of Troi wearing the maroon jumpsuit with the DS9/VOY commbadge.

No TroixWorf romance! Wow! Did they break up sometime before this film and after "All Good Things..." or something? I personally liked her better with Worf than Riker.

I wonder how Picard would've handled the crash and what he would've done if he would've been on the bridge when the Saucer Section was hurling into Veridian 3.

I think I recall a scene when there is this tsunami-like wave that goes all over Veridian 3 and destroys the Enterprise saucer but Picard reconfigured the machinery and goes back in time, then we see the crash scene again. What exactly did Picard do?

I wish the CW Philly channel would air it again like they did last fall... *keeps fingers crossed and an eye on IMDB's Star Trek: Generations for an airdate*

I strongly feel that Star Trek was and is made for kids.

Interesting you should say that!

Would you really want your kids hearing Data gulp "Oh... SHIT!"

 

[AdmiralScreed]

I'm pleasantly surprised by all of the positive responses I've gotten. I didn't realize that Generations was such a well liked film on these forums, but I'm glad to hear that it is. (either that, or most of the nay sayers are keeping quiet )

My list changes pretty frequently, but as of right now Generations is my 4th favorite film in the franchise, behind TVH, TUC, and my favorite Trek film FC.

 

[Gojira]

Despite its flaws, I have always really liked this movie.

 

[M-Red]

Middle of the pack on my film list -- #6 out of 11.
2 out of 4 on my TNG ranking.


Generations has aged pretty well for me, and I'd much rather watch it before INS or NEM.

 

[Trek Survivor]

"Generations" is okay. Actually, when I first saw it, I liked it a lot. It has flaws, but - for better and worse - it was the only TNG movie that truly successfully captured the spirit and feel of the TV series.

 

[Andymator]

PROS:

I strongly feel that Star Trek was and is made for kids.

Interesting you should say that!

Would you really want your kids hearing Data gulp "Oh... SHIT!"

Well, I should probably clarify that when I say kids I'm really meaning somewhere around 10 to 14 years old... And in a few years when my daughter is that old, I would have no problem with her watching that.

In fact, I would argue that because the line is so juvenile young people are specifically the ones who would appreciate it! It's set up to contrast the super-stodgy and proper world of The Next Generation, and to a 30 year old nerd that seems a bit out of place, but to a rebellious and excited 12 year old it's great fun!

 

[sonak]

Generations was a lost oppritunity...It should have been a fun adventure that united the casts of TOS and TNG and passed the torch on a happy note...Instead we got a somber film and to attend Kirk's funeral for no apparent reason. Did I mention that the nexus is the worst plot device in the history of cinema?

the Nexus isn't much more ridiculous as a plot device than the Genesis device.