Star Wars: The Clone Wars S4

[CorporalCaptain]

Maybe the varying effectiveness of Force telekinesis is a matter of how much concentration or energy they can spare at a given moment, or how much willpower is (consciously or unconsciously) resisting them. Maybe the Force has currents and fluctuations on a large scale.

This is the only explanation that makes sense to me. The parting words "May the Force be with you!" always indicated to me that Force powers can't necessarily be relied upon.

In the opening multipart series of the season, Anakin asked someone to guard him while he concentrated on telekinetically bringing down a building. He was vulnerable while he did this; perhaps the limited prescience which lets him block blaster attacks with his lightsaber was hampered.

If a Dungeons & Dragons model applies, and Force powers are something like psionics or spells, then they cannot be used in an unlimited way.

 

[Caliburn24]

The problem with the Force being an ever changing river of power and limitations is that it is profoundly unsatisfying dramatically. It is the same paradigm that any fictional series with some sort of magic or advanced technology faces.

It distances us from the characters emotionally because any problem they face can be overcome in some way we don't fully understand. Plus it encourages sloppy, lazy, and often contradictory writing, as others have already noted.

Some series lay out strict rules for how their magic/technology works, and its limitations. But I'm not sure it would work in Star Wars. Midichlorian counts and their ilk were rather heavy handed. I suppose a better writer might be able to make something better of it. Jedi power levels, skills and attributes that certain Force-users possess while others do not, something along those lines. That was part of what made Corran Horn an interesting Jedi. He couldn't go into any situation with a blazing lightsaber, he did not have the skills for that.

 

[Silvercrest]

Maybe the varying effectiveness of Force telekinesis is a matter of how much concentration or energy they can spare at a given moment, or how much willpower is (consciously or unconsciously) resisting them. Maybe the Force has currents and fluctuations on a large scale.

No, they have the ability to up their Force power by spending brain power. The more powerful they get, the dumber they get. That explains some of the stupid decisions.

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

i really like episode 9 of season 1 where the droids board and try to save the viceroy. does anyone know of some other good droid eps? it's great.

bump

 

[cylkoth]

Maybe the varying effectiveness of Force telekinesis is a matter of how much concentration or energy they can spare at a given moment, or how much willpower is (consciously or unconsciously) resisting them. Maybe the Force has currents and fluctuations on a large scale.

This is the only explanation that makes sense to me. The parting words "May the Force be with you!" always indicated to me that Force powers can't necessarily be relied upon.

Agreed. This is the only way to deal with this, make the inconsistency part of the nature of the force. Too many times, we sit and ask, why didn't they just force push this or that. It's maddening.

 

[Santeria]

Too many times, we sit and ask, why didn't they just force push this or that. It's maddening.

That's what I was getting at.

It has nothing to do with how powerful the Force is at any given point. That's never been shown to be an obstacle, aside from when they're in some kind of dampening field or the like.

It's the fact that they don't even think to try things that's, as you say, maddening. "Oh no, this cliff is insurmountable! Even though I jumped twice as far a few episodes ago without any problem whatsoever." "Hey look, even after letting wolfboy over there thrash me around like a rag doll, I can stand up and squash two droids without breaking a sweat. But, uh, the guy outside who's one of the most powerful Jedi to ever live is stuck hiding behind a wall because a droid is pew pewing at him."

That last scenario bugs me to high heaven. Especially considering the ease they were able to deflect -- with pinpoint accuracy no less -- those uber powerful blasts. I mean, why couldn't they just keep deflecting and get a quick slash in on the bombs, which they also do in the blink of the eye, striking it randomly each time (seriously, go watch it again; Anakin just backhand slashes the last one in a location nowhere near the control console)? Or why not just deflect a blast to the bombs since it just takes one hit to disable them? Or any of the other countless options they had available to them above and beyond just letting them detonate since no one was in danger?

You don't have to have stupid characters in order to introduce suspense or obstacles. But it seems all too often that this is the only way anything in Star Wars is ever written.

 

[Christopher]

Maybe the varying effectiveness of Force telekinesis is a matter of how much concentration or energy they can spare at a given moment, or how much willpower is (consciously or unconsciously) resisting them. Maybe the Force has currents and fluctuations on a large scale.

This is the only explanation that makes sense to me. The parting words "May the Force be with you!" always indicated to me that Force powers can't necessarily be relied upon.

Good point. Wishing for the Force to be with someone implies that it can also be against someone, or at least absent when it's needed.

The problem with the Force being an ever changing river of power and limitations is that it is profoundly unsatisfying dramatically. It is the same paradigm that any fictional series with some sort of magic or advanced technology faces.

It distances us from the characters emotionally because any problem they face can be overcome in some way we don't fully understand. Plus it encourages sloppy, lazy, and often contradictory writing, as others have already noted.

On the other hand, a lot of stories are about pitting their protagonists against unpredictable obstacles, like battling the elements or coping with a disaster or a monster. That sense of uncertainty, the risk of falling prey to a random, unavoidable fate, is part of the drama. Also, it's a standard fictional trope for an advantage to fail you just when you need it most. ("Confound it! The batteries are dead!") The Force is a magic problem-solver which can be arbitrarily used to overcome any obstacle. Giving it limitations and vagaries makes the heroes more vulnerable and that adds dramatic interest.

That last scenario bugs me to high heaven. Especially considering the ease they were able to deflect -- with pinpoint accuracy no less -- those uber powerful blasts. I mean, why couldn't they just keep deflecting and get a quick slash in on the bombs, which they also do in the blink of the eye, striking it randomly each time (seriously, go watch it again; Anakin just backhand slashes the last one in a location nowhere near the control console)? Or why not just deflect a blast to the bombs since it just takes one hit to disable them? Or any of the other countless options they had available to them above and beyond just letting them detonate since no one was in danger?

If they were just doing it moments before, maybe they reached the limit of their endurance for the moment. Sure, Yoda may talk about the scale of the exertion being irrelevant, but it stands to reason that doing it a lot in quick succession would be tiring. Too much Force use at one time could deplete some chemicals that are part of the midichlorians' biological processes, like the way staring at a light too long depletes chemicals in the eye's photoreceptors and causes them to shut down temporarily until the chemicals are replenished.

 

[Silvercrest]

Or they could just walk away and let the bombs go off. Since there weren't any civilians to be protected-- you know, the reason they were supposedly there?

If there were any chemicals depleted, they came straight from the brain.

 

[Christopher]

"Hey look, even after letting wolfboy over there thrash me around like a rag doll, I can stand up and squash two droids without breaking a sweat. But, uh, the guy outside who's one of the most powerful Jedi to ever live is stuck hiding behind a wall because a droid is pew pewing at him."

That last scenario bugs me to high heaven.

Ahsoka had a line about the sniper droids' shields being too strong. That was probably to explain why the deflected blaster bolts weren't destroying them, but could it also mean they were shielded from Force telekinesis? Just a thought.

Or why not just deflect a blast to the bombs since it just takes one hit to disable them?

Not just a hit, but a deep incision with a lightsaber, which has always been portrayed as a special weapon with a lot more power and exotic properties than a blaster bolt. I figured it was something specific about the saber beam that was able to deactivate the bomb mechanisms. Besides, a blaster hit might just scar the surface, not penetrate deep enough to reach the mechanism.


The thing that interested me the most here was the way the holograms were depicted. Anakin actually Force-pulling the hologram of the slaver into his hand and crushing it was unexpected, and we saw another hologram kind of "splash" apart when Obi-Wan tossed the slaver into it. (Odd that they're slavers but look more like Kzinti.) That would mean that SW holograms are, in fact, made of some kind of light-emitting particles that are projected above the generator and manipulated into an animated shape -- much like the big cubic voxels we saw in the cruder Umbaran holograms in the recent 4-parter, but with more fine-grained detail. Maybe that annoying horizontal line that keeps sweeping through them is an unavoidable artifact of the cycling of the magnetic field or whatever that suspends the particles. Anyway, it makes a lot more sense than the idea that the images are just light somehow projected into empty air without anything to bounce off of. It's the only plausible way that the floating-in-midair "holograms" that are such a standard cliche in sci-fi could possibly work -- although realistically they'd be wavy due to air currents. (And of course those corny midair images aren't actually holograms at all, because a hologram is 3-dimensional data encoded into a 2-dimensional medium. They're volumetric images.)

 

[Caliburn24]

One of the best thing about Zahn's first Star Wars trilogy was introducing the Ysalmari. Yeah it was an obvious way to limit Jedi 'power creep' and create situations where Jedi could be handled by normal soldiers. But it was a simple and understandable counter to the Jedi abilities, very much like Kryptonite is to Superman.

I would love if the Separatists showed some more creativity in the weapons and systems they use to counter the Jedi. The shielded droids in Phantom Menace were a start. The sonic weapons in AotC another good idea it appeared. But as far as Revenge of the Sith, and the Clone Wars show go, it appears that the Separatists are just helpless before the Jedi.

 

[Hound of UIster]

That is only because the Separatists run the war like it's a business so the expensive, more effective anti-jedi weapons such as commando droids, assassin droids and MagnaGuards aren't produced in larger numbers while the cheaper and less effective regular battle droids are still primarily used.

 

[Santeria]

Ahsoka had a line about the sniper droids' shields being too strong. That was probably to explain why the deflected blaster bolts weren't destroying them, but could it also mean they were shielded from Force telekinesis? Just a thought.

So you're suggesting that the bombs could only be randomly slashed at to deactivate them if all droids in the immediate area are destroyed? For some mysterious reason that was never once mentioned or even remotely hinted at anywhere in the episode? While what was visually explained is that you just had to hit the darn thing with a lightsaber in any random location you fancy in order to deactivate them?

And why are two "sniper bot" more difficult to deflect blaster fire from than an entire squadron's worth of blaster fire that they all but ignore during practically every episode? "Oh no, they're blasters are too powerful! (Even though we've been deflecting them this whole time in addition to other blaster fire, and we're not only about to manage to deflect them here in a minute, but deflect them with pinpoint accuracy to boot.)" That was the closest explanation we got to it, which just makes it even more ridiculous.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Ahsoka had a line about the sniper droids' shields being too strong. That was probably to explain why the deflected blaster bolts weren't destroying them, but could it also mean they were shielded from Force telekinesis? Just a thought.

So you're suggesting that the bombs could only be randomly slashed at to deactivate them if all droids in the immediate area are destroyed? For some mysterious reason that was never once mentioned or even remotely hinted at anywhere in the episode? While what was visually explained is that you just had to hit the darn thing with a lightsaber in any random location you fancy in order to deactivate them?

They slashed the control panel thing not a random location

And why are two "sniper bot" more difficult to deflect blaster fire from than an entire squadron's worth of blaster fire that they all but ignore during practically every episode? "Oh no, they're blasters are too powerful! (Even though we've been deflecting them this whole time in addition to other blaster fire, and we're not only about to manage to deflect them here in a minute, but deflect them with pinpoint accuracy to boot.)" That was the closest explanation we got to it, which just makes it even more ridiculous.

1) You can't slash with a lighsaber and block blaster fire in an open area at the same time.

2) They can't disarm one bomb at the time since they were linked.

So not seeing a lot of option here.

 

[Silvercrest]

1) You can't slash with a lighsaber and block blaster fire in an open area at the same time.

2) They can't disarm one bomb at the time since they were linked.

So not seeing a lot of option here.

Like I keep saying: walk away. Let the bombs go off. If necessary, keep deflecting blaster fire until you're out of range.

Why disarm them?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

1) You can't slash with a lighsaber and block blaster fire in an open area at the same time.

2) They can't disarm one bomb at the time since they were linked.

So not seeing a lot of option here.

Like I keep saying: walk away. Let the bombs go off. If necessary, keep deflecting blaster fire until you're out of range.

Why disarm them?

Becuase they don't know their not there.

And before that they should have know argument they were operating under the belief that the colonists were either

1) being held somewhere becuase they would make valuable hostages, becuase they don't know they were moved off planet for enslavement. remember only the audience heard the being moved to a safe place thing, the last thing the Jedi heard was the the Seperatists had arrived.

2) if not being held then hiding until the Jedi liberate them which non armed civilians who AREN'T suicidal are more likely to do under these conditions

 

[timothy]

there is a neat interview with catherine taber. www.clubjade.net who play padme amidala and star wars in the up coming star wars the old republic.

 

[Whofan]

Anime is the stuff of nightmares.

 

[Silvercrest]

Becuase they don't know their not there.

And before that they should have know argument they were operating under the belief that the colonists were either

Homophone alert! Homophone alert!

 

[Santeria]

Ahsoka had a line about the sniper droids' shields being too strong. That was probably to explain why the deflected blaster bolts weren't destroying them, but could it also mean they were shielded from Force telekinesis? Just a thought.

So you're suggesting that the bombs could only be randomly slashed at to deactivate them if all droids in the immediate area are destroyed? For some mysterious reason that was never once mentioned or even remotely hinted at anywhere in the episode? While what was visually explained is that you just had to hit the darn thing with a lightsaber in any random location you fancy in order to deactivate them?

They slashed the control panel thing not a random location

Except that's exactly what Anakin did to the last bomb to disable it. He just backhanded his saber carelessly and hit it on practically the other side of the control console. He wasn't even looking at it when he did it.

1) You can't slash with a lighsaber and block blaster fire in an open area at the same time.

They attack and defend simultaneously all the time amidst massive numbers of incoming attacks. Here, they were fighting two droids using semi-automatic fire.

2) They can't disarm one bomb at the time since they were linked.

And?

As an aside, that brings up another thing that was completely dumb about that episode. *Why* were those bombs and those bombs alone linked?

So not seeing a lot of option here.

That's no fault of mine.

 

[Set Harth]

Wishing for the Force to be with someone implies that it can also be against someone, or at least absent when it's needed.

Interestingly, Obi-Wan tells Luke that the Force will be with him "always".

could it also mean they were shielded from Force telekinesis?

I doubt that's what they meant, but it's an interesting idea. However, we haven't seen it appear in prior canon to my knowledge. We see a Jedi wave his hand and TK away some ( unshielded ) droidekas in the Genndy cartoon series, while we noticeably never saw this in the films. A localized tractor field would be the kind of thing that would probably cause more of a problem with TK.