Bolians

[Sci]

...Although that is only relevant if the law sez a President needs to be born a citizen, and some other law sez that being born a UFP citizen calls for being born into a species whose principal governing body is a UFP member at the time. These two laws have not been explicated in aired Trek, but they might have been explicated in written Trek. They do sound more than a tad racist, though.

Timo Saloniemi

It's a moot point, because the novels explicitly identify Bolarus as being a Federation Member, with Zife having previously served as Bolarus's representative on the Federation Council.

 

[Forbin]

Whoever assembled them was very bad at sanding the seams.

 

[Deks]

...Although that is only relevant if the law sez a President needs to be born a citizen, and some other law sez that being born a UFP citizen calls for being born into a species whose principal governing body is a UFP member at the time. These two laws have not been explicated in aired Trek, but they might have been explicated in written Trek. They do sound more than a tad racist, though.

Timo Saloniemi

It's a moot point, because the novels explicitly identify Bolarus as being a Federation Member, with Zife having previously served as Bolarus's representative on the Federation Council.

Novels aren't canon.

 

[Timo]

And even if they were to be considered, I was commenting on the fact that there is no "in fact" in the above example. The novelverse fact that a Bolian is a President does not tell us anything about Bolarus being a member - the two factoids are separate, unless we assume those two things about UFP legislation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

And even if they were to be considered, I was commenting on the fact that there is no "in fact" in the above example. The novelverse fact that a Bolian is a President does not tell us anything about Bolarus being a member - the two factoids are separate, unless we assume those two things about UFP legislation.

Timo Saloniemi

This is the point I was trying to make before.
That just because we see members of A species working in the Federation or SF, doesn't mean that their homeworld is part of UFP.

 

[RoJoHen]

And even if they were to be considered, I was commenting on the fact that there is no "in fact" in the above example. The novelverse fact that a Bolian is a President does not tell us anything about Bolarus being a member - the two factoids are separate, unless we assume those two things about UFP legislation.

Timo Saloniemi

This is the point I was trying to make before.
That just because we see members of A species working in the Federation or SF, doesn't mean that their homeworld is part of UFP.

Indeed. Just look at Worf and Nog.

 

[JB2005]

And even if they were to be considered, I was commenting on the fact that there is no "in fact" in the above example. The novelverse fact that a Bolian is a President does not tell us anything about Bolarus being a member - the two factoids are separate, unless we assume those two things about UFP legislation.

Timo Saloniemi

Errr...the bit where it says "Councillor for Bolarus" Sort of suggests membership...

 

[Timo]

You mean the bit that was added in a later reply, and was not part of the original statement?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JB2005]

...Although that is only relevant if the law sez a President needs to be born a citizen, and some other law sez that being born a UFP citizen calls for being born into a species whose principal governing body is a UFP member at the time. These two laws have not been explicated in aired Trek, but they might have been explicated in written Trek. They do sound more than a tad racist, though.

Timo Saloniemi

It's a moot point, because the novels explicitly identify Bolarus as being a Federation Member, with Zife having previously served as Bolarus's representative on the Federation Council.

Novels aren't canon.

And even if they were to be considered, I was commenting on the fact that there is no "in fact" in the above example. The novelverse fact that a Bolian is a President does not tell us anything about Bolarus being a member - the two factoids are separate, unless we assume those two things about UFP legislation.

Timo Saloniemi

No, I mean the thing you were replying to...

 

[Sci]

...Although that is only relevant if the law sez a President needs to be born a citizen, and some other law sez that being born a UFP citizen calls for being born into a species whose principal governing body is a UFP member at the time. These two laws have not been explicated in aired Trek, but they might have been explicated in written Trek. They do sound more than a tad racist, though.

Timo Saloniemi

It's a moot point, because the novels explicitly identify Bolarus as being a Federation Member, with Zife having previously served as Bolarus's representative on the Federation Council.

Novels aren't canon.

So what?

And even if they were to be considered, I was commenting on the fact that there is no "in fact" in the above example. The novelverse fact that a Bolian is a President does not tell us anything about Bolarus being a member - the two factoids are separate, unless we assume those two things about UFP legislation.

But if a Federation President is from Bolarus, it DOES imply that Bolarus is a very well-integrated Federation Member, rather than being one whose populace doesn't interact much with the rest of the Federation. My intent was not to say that the fact that there's a Bolian President tells us that Bolarus must be a Member; my intent was to say that the fact that a President was Bolian tells us about how closely Bolarus is likely integrated into the Federation.

 

[Timo]

No, I mean the thing you were replying to...

That's going two degrees meta. The content of my reply was in reference to the original claims that did not include the additional info on Min Zife - later interjections cannot alter that content.

The keywords being "I was commenting on". Not "I am commenting on".

But if a Federation President is from Bolarus, it DOES imply that Bolarus is a very well-integrated Federation Member

Or possibly that Bolarus is such a hated enemy that any defector immediately becomes a UFP celebrity.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vendor]

This whole thread over something so trivial and SO obvious.

 

[Sci]

No, I mean the thing you were replying to...

That's going two degrees meta. The content of my reply was in reference to the original claims that did not include the additional info on Min Zife - later interjections cannot alter that content.

The keywords being "I was commenting on". Not "I am commenting on".

But if a Federation President is from Bolarus, it DOES imply that Bolarus is a very well-integrated Federation Member

Or possibly that Bolarus is such a hated enemy that any defector immediately becomes a UFP celebrity.

Timo Saloniemi

Either way, you're splitting hairs so much that it's kind of ridiculous. The novels have established that Bolarus is a Federation Member, that there are Federation Councillors from Bolarus, and that Bolarus is so well-integrated into the Federation that a Bolian served as Federation President.

For additional information, the novels have also established that the Bolian legislature is called the Quorum of Bole. Just FYI.

 

[Ln X]

To you all; who cares about the Bolians? They were the layering in a very tasty sandwich of Star Trek epicness, that's all we need to know.

 

[Vendor]

To you all; who cares about the Bolians? They were the layering in a very tasty sandwich of Star Trek epicness, that's all we need to know.

Amen.

 

[The Wormhole]

To you all; who cares about the Bolians? They were the layering in a very tasty sandwich of Star Trek epicness, that's all we need to know.

Bolians are prominent enough to justify a discussion of this much depth. If this thread were about Grazerites on the other hand...

 

[RoJoHen]

To you all; who cares about the Bolians? They were the layering in a very tasty sandwich of Star Trek epicness, that's all we need to know.

I just think they've shown up enough in the background of Star Trek to wonder what they're all about. It's weird for a race that appears so often to have no stories focused on them.

 

[Deks]

Either way, you're splitting hairs so much that it's kind of ridiculous. The novels have established that Bolarus is a Federation Member, that there are Federation Councillors from Bolarus, and that Bolarus is so well-integrated into the Federation that a Bolian served as Federation President.

For additional information, the novels have also established that the Bolian legislature is called the Quorum of Bole. Just FYI.

I think that YOU might be drawing conclusions which have no real basis.
Novels ARE NOT canon, an no dialogue mentioned that Bolians were part of UFP.

I don't care how 'prominent' the appearance of Bolians is in SF or the Federation.
It doesn't mean they are UFP member.
They can be VERY close allies with the Federation having all the privileges of membership without actually being a member (for all we know).

We can't assume they are a UFP member though.
Nothing explicitly states it.

 

[Sci]

Either way, you're splitting hairs so much that it's kind of ridiculous. The novels have established that Bolarus is a Federation Member, that there are Federation Councillors from Bolarus, and that Bolarus is so well-integrated into the Federation that a Bolian served as Federation President.

For additional information, the novels have also established that the Bolian legislature is called the Quorum of Bole. Just FYI.

I think that YOU might be drawing conclusions which have no real basis.
Novels ARE NOT canon,

Did I say the novels are part of the canon?

But being non-canonical doesn't mean anything particularly relevant. Being canonical only means that non-canonical works produced after the canonical work cannot contradict the canonical work. That's it.

We can't assume they are a UFP member though.

Why not? It's all equally fictional. It's not like there will be a quiz at the end of the semester.

 

[JB2005]

Either way, you're splitting hairs so much that it's kind of ridiculous. The novels have established that Bolarus is a Federation Member, that there are Federation Councillors from Bolarus, and that Bolarus is so well-integrated into the Federation that a Bolian served as Federation President.

For additional information, the novels have also established that the Bolian legislature is called the Quorum of Bole. Just FYI.

I think that YOU might be drawing conclusions which have no real basis.
Novels ARE NOT canon,

Did I say the novels are part of the canon?

But being non-canonical doesn't mean anything particularly relevant. Being canonical only means that non-canonical works produced after the canonical work cannot contradict the canonical work. That's it.

We can't assume they are a UFP member though.

Why not? It's all equally fictional. It's not like there will be a quiz at the end of the semester.

What?!?

*Sadly begins shredding the copius notes and revision schedules...*

And it always bugs me when people say "Well for all we know" to try and justify something...Star Trek isn't a real thing that the TV Show explores and we learn more about with new episodes...it's a fictional construct and so all that is true is what is stated, and what can be inferred only has the possibility of being right if a writer specifically addresses it...

So since the Bolians look like a member and swim like a member and quack like a member I'm gonna say it...they're ducks!

EDIT: Damnit! Members, I meant members!