X-Men (2000): still a darned good flick
- Thread starter Gaith
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Will Christopher not ignore The Last Stand?!
For the purposes of the exercise, I'm trying not to ignore any of the movies. But aside from that, I'm one of the few people who actually kinda liked The Last Stand. It did have its shortfalls, to be sure, but it had other aspects that worked pretty well, and on balance I find it entertaining, though definitely not as good as its predecessors.
Heck, I didn't even mind XMO: Wolverine that much. It wasn't a particularly good movie, and it felt like a summary of a much fuller story, but I found it watchable, and it seemed like it worked reasonably well as a prequel to the X-Men movies, in terms of the continuity being compatible. Although you guys make an excellent point about the timing discrepancy. It did seem to me that Cyke shouldn't have been a teenager that early, but I didn't give the issue the weight I perhaps should have.
Then again, if I can resort to comics precedent to wave away inconsistencies like Xavier's paralysis and the duration of his partnership with Magneto, maybe I can do the same for age discrepancies. After all, the comics' X-Men are only a few years older now than they were in the 1960s.
Or not. I have no problem with treating XMO:W as apocryphal. I was just curious to see if the films could be fit together, because it's an entertaining exercise to try.
(By the way, the more I hear about the new The Wolverine movie they're making, the more it intrigues me. It sounds like it couldn't be more different from XMO:W, and could turn out to be a pretty exceptional superhero film, more a thoughtful character piece than a world-in-peril blockbuster. I just hope the studio doesn't screw it up.)
None of the X-Men movies had a real strong sense of continuity in regards to history or back story of the characters. For example, in the first film, Prof. X implies that Scott and Jean were part of the first recruits, while in the second film, it is implied there was at least one generation of students before the current team (Scott, Storm, Jean) arrived.
There is plenty of wiggle room to retcon something if the story needs it too. In some ways, it would be a lot like the comics.
There is plenty of wiggle room to retcon something if the story needs it too. In some ways, it would be a lot like the comics.
That's one of my favorite pieces of music. Every so often, I find myself humming it, wonder what it's from, and finally remember that it is the wonderful piece from X-Men.
As an X-fan (I mean, seriously, look at the avatar), I recall Roger Ebert's review on Ebert & Roeper. He gave it a lukewarm thumbs down, but I thought it was neat that in the same review, he wanted to see a sequel because he felt X1 spent a lot of time on character but not enough on action. It's not often you see a film critic disapprove of a film but then outright want a sequel.
i think the safest thing to do is simply to put X1-3 in one continuity, Wolverine in another and FC in a third and they just share one actor playing Logan and the origin of Magneto. and 2 share one actor playing Xavier. seemples.
I think more people liked that film than you might think. It's just that the screaming X-Men Tea Party got out in front of it and polluted any discourse related to the film.
Christopher said:
Now that I've seen it, I realize that it fits into the continuity of the first three films better than I had originally thought based on what I had heard. The problem I had was with some of Stryker's dialogue in X2, but then I realized: he's the bad guy. He can lie, if he thinks it'll help him get what he wants.
By comparison, First Class feels like a new continuity.
[ Though I do wonder why Sabretooth's appearance remained more or less constant for over 100 years, only to dramatically change during the comparatively short span of time between X-Men Origins: Wolverine and X1.
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I was disappointed in X1 and X3, for different reasons. I'm pretty much not disappointed by X2 at all. Every film in the trilogy has its strong points.
I think that X1 suffered from the same Marvel-adaptation-itus that all the earlier Marvel adaptations suffered from, which involves watering down the comic book universe because of some assumption that that will make the universe more marketable. Despite this, X1 was mostly workable and could be built upon and improved, and indeed X2 totally broke free and allowed most of the even more numerous mutants to exercise the full range of their powers matter-of-factly. X3 seemed to take this even further by increasing the number of mutants again, which was good, but then they went and pissed away Rogue's character in a very unlikable way. Not to mention, apparently outright killing off some favorites wasn't something that I was really excited about.
I think that X1 suffered from the same Marvel-adaptation-itus that all the earlier Marvel adaptations suffered from, which involves watering down the comic book universe because of some assumption that that will make the universe more marketable. Despite this, X1 was mostly workable and could be built upon and improved, and indeed X2 totally broke free and allowed most of the even more numerous mutants to exercise the full range of their powers matter-of-factly. X3 seemed to take this even further by increasing the number of mutants again, which was good, but then they went and pissed away Rogue's character in a very unlikable way. Not to mention, apparently outright killing off some favorites wasn't something that I was really excited about.
I also liked 3, me and Ebert's agree on why: it had an actual story that was socially relevant. As for dark Phoenix, the whole suppressed personality fits better in the films' real world continuity than any space alien whatever would. The problem with the film is not the story but that the film feels like an assembly of vignettes rather than a narrative. McKellan was fantastic in the film, with highlights including his "mark" when asked and his comment to Pyro about Xavier. Yes, the film does feel odd, but I liked it
One of the main problems for me about X-Men: The Last Stand was how Dark Phoenix basically contributed nothing to the climactic battle, but in retrospect, I think it kinda works. I mean, the idea behind Dark Phoenix in the movie was that she was evolving beyond really caring about the affairs of lesser mortals. Magneto wanted Phoenix as a weapon for his cause, but she didn't really care about his cause and that's why she didn't do anything.
You're right. Messages can be ham fisted, but the X-men was always traditionally an allegorical message story from the beginning
What bothered me about Phoenix was that X2 already established what was happening to Jean. Magneto's mutant machine from X1 had affected Jean and was causing her powers to mutate. Cyclops says in X2 that she has been acting weird ever since Liberty Island.
Then X3 came along and ignored that. I really liked the idea that Phoenix was a result of a new mutation better than the idea that Phoenix had been in Jean's head all along and was being supressed by Xavier.
Then X3 came along and ignored that. I really liked the idea that Phoenix was a result of a new mutation better than the idea that Phoenix had been in Jean's head all along and was being supressed by Xavier.
Hmm interesting
Though I do wonder why Sabretooth's appearance remained more or less constant for over 100 years, only to dramatically change during the comparatively short span of time between X-Men Origins: Wolverine and X1.
Magneto tried out his machine on Sabretooth first.
It could be a different guy with the same name. The only time we hear the name Sabertooth is when Xavier mentions it. I don't recall it being spoken in the origins film. In any case, I thought Tyler Mane was perfect for the role and missed him in the origins film. Leiv Shrieber was quite good, and he is a trained actor so it wasn't a big deal. i thought his galloping looked silly.
I always thought that Jean really took to Magneto's line about pawns going first, and that she saw Magneto and the others as pawns to her.
I think it can still work. Xavier suppressed the alternate personality successfully, never to be seen again. Then Magneto's machine cracked and undid the mental barriers that Xavier put in place. I think the problem, if it could be called that, is that no one ever linked it directly back in X3 to Magneto's machine.
I LOVE the Xmen. Its tone and low key approach to their powers was brilliant and the cast was perfect. My only criticism would be that the final battle seemed a bit stilted and anti-climactic.
X2 was a slightly better film but I would have liked it more if they'd stuck with low key powers instead of ramping up the explosions quite so much.
I agree with Christopher that the biggest criticism is that it totally wasted the Phoenix plot, which should have been the A-plot without a doubt. I thought it was unnecessary to have such a large crowd of mutant cannon fodder at the end too. Apart from that, I really liked the X-group dynamic at the end and I thought that the Beast's plot was a very good, self-contained arc.
I'm totally up for an X4.
X2 was a slightly better film but I would have liked it more if they'd stuck with low key powers instead of ramping up the explosions quite so much.
I agree with Christopher that the biggest criticism is that it totally wasted the Phoenix plot, which should have been the A-plot without a doubt. I thought it was unnecessary to have such a large crowd of mutant cannon fodder at the end too. Apart from that, I really liked the X-group dynamic at the end and I thought that the Beast's plot was a very good, self-contained arc.
I'm totally up for an X4.
Yeah, it can work if you want it to. I just wish they had made the connection clear.
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