Political correctness and stereotypes

[JarodRussell]

In the light of recent threads, I'm wondering...

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUqOYT9dlc[/yt]
Is this racist?

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea7bj5MsyAU[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6_SducHF7Q[/yt]
Is this homophobe?


When does making fun of and laughing at stereotypes make you a racist, homophobe, antisemite, sexist, etc..., and when does it not?

 

[Miss Chicken]

I am not sure. Maybe when you laugh at something that you know is harmful to the group that is depicted?

I sometimes wonder if it is OK for me, as a white person, to laugh at something like this

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMPE3qRliKw&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/yt]

 

[Roger Wilco]

Is this racist?

Depends. It definitely makes me a bit uncomfortable. At least I think the character played by Charlie Sheen projects some racist attitudes there. Whether or not it's actually racist depends on the context of the scene in the show I guess.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Cultural trends have gone from the Right Wing promoting stereotypes in a demeaning way to the Left Wing promoting stereotypes in an empowering way. Six of one, half a dozen of the other as far as I'm concerned. I think promoting, or perpetuating, stereotypes is always bad; people should be portrayed and perceived as individuals.

 

[Kirkman1987]

A difficult question. Ultimately it's up to each individual to decide what they think is acceptable and what they will support.

I personally find the clip funny. It's not openly mean spirited imo, and the humor comes as much from Charlie Sheen's own discomfort as from any negative portrayal of black people.

The line is blurry because stereotypes and prejudice are not the result of pure evil or malice. they exist for a reason. People ARE noticably different, culturally different. A man who views these differences as a cause for deep concern, hatred, and fear is a bigot. more reasonable people will realize that Humanity has more in common with itself than we have differences.

These differences create situations that can be seen comedically (or indeed examined in a serious light). I think as long as the big picture is kept in mind, we can have some fun at one another's expense and the absurdity of it all. If we can't see the light side of a situation, it would be way too serious of a world for me.

That's just me though.

 

[sidious618]

"Two and a Half Men" is objectionable on an intellectual level; I won't even touch its racist and sexist connotations.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

I've met many people that adhere to stereotypes of their subculture in almost every way possible. I've met effeminate, high-pitched gay men. That said, I've also met gay men who I wouldn't have ever guessed were homosexual. I've met black people who listened to rap, wore their pants down low and couldn't write to save their life, and I've met black people who were far and away more intelligent than me.

There are people who are perfect examples of their cultural stereotypes. That's why stereotypes exist, after all. It's when you view the entire group as adhering to that stereotype, that it becomes a problem.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I've only seen bits and pieces of 2 and a Half Men, but from what little I've seen and heard about it I'm pretty sure watching it is one of the eternal punishments in the ninth circle of Hell.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Charlie Sheen's character supposed to be an offensive womanizing forty-something man-child who never grew up and acts like an inconsiderate asshole to everyone he meets, including his friends and family? You know, like Charlie Sheen.

It seems to me that maybe since his character was portrayed as such a dick, that we as the audience are not meant to see his behavior as a positive thing to emulate? That maybe stereotyping people and being an asshole aren't the way to go?

Food for thought.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Cultural trends have gone from the Right Wing promoting stereotypes in a demeaning way to the Left Wing promoting stereotypes in an empowering way. Six of one, half a dozen of the other as far as I'm concerned. I think promoting, or perpetuating, stereotypes is always bad; people should be portrayed and perceived as individuals.

"Stereotype" and "empowering" don't even belong in the same sentence. They reduce people to a list of traits that may or may not apply. Even a stereotype that "elevates" one group often implicitly tears down another one.

 

[JarodRussell]

"Two and a Half Men" is objectionable on an intellectual level; I won't even touch its racist and sexist connotations.

So what do you think about the audience of that show? Are they stupid racists, sexists and homophobes?

I've met many people that adhere to stereotypes of their subculture in almost every way possible. I've met effeminate, high-pitched gay men. That said, I've also met gay men who I wouldn't have ever guessed were homosexual. I've met black people who listened to rap, wore their pants down low and couldn't write to save their life, and I've met black people who were far and away more intelligent than me.

There are people who are perfect examples of their cultural stereotypes. That's why stereotypes exist, after all. It's when you view the entire group as adhering to that stereotype, that it becomes a problem.

That's how I see it. I mean, stereotypes do exist. Maybe they are the "loud minority", but they exist nonetheless. And I find a lot of them funny. That doesn't mean I view the entire group like that.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I have friends of group x, but....
That's usually how it goes.

 

[TorontoTrekker]

That clip with Patrick Stewart is actually from the movie "Jeffrey", which is about a young gay man who decides to become celibate. (If I recall correctly - and I own a copy, but it's been several years since I watched it - it's largely due to a fear of contracting HIV.) Naturally, just as he makes this decision, he meets the man of his dreams, and has to decide whether or not to get involved with him.

So no, I wouldn't call the movie homophobic in the least - especially given that it was written by Paul Rudnick (who also wrote the screenplay for In And Out). It's actually a very sweet movie.

I liked it, and Patrick Stewart is actually hysterically funny in it. (It had quite the cast, too - Steven Weber, Michael T. Weiss, Christine Baranski, Sigourney Weaver, Victor Garber, Camryn Manheim, Kathy Najimy, Nathan Lane, Ethan Phillips and Olympia Dukakis are all in it, and Peter Jacobson and Kevin Nealon have small parts as well. If memory serves, Alex Trebek is also in it, though the IMDb page doesn't list him.)

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

LoB--I'm about to reveal my ignorance of movies and TV, but who is that and what show is that from, in your threadbomb?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It's an old Saturday Night Live bit. Jon Lovitz on the left, John Lithgow on the right.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I was thinking John Lithgow, but I wasn't entirely sure. That must be from when he was a bit younger than in Third Rock from the Sun...?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

LoB--I'm about to reveal my ignorance of movies and TV, but who is that and what show is that from, in your threadbomb?

^ It's an old Saturday Night Live bit. Jon Lovitz on the left, John Lithgow on the right.

Yep. It's a recurring character Jon Lovitz did on SNL in the late-80s called The Master Thespian. He's a Shakespearean actor but always winds up getting small time gigs like playing mall Santas or doing cheap local commercials. He would always tell some white lie or do a silly trick and then yell "Acting!" when he fooled everyone, like he was Olivier.

I couldn't find the exact sketch with John Lithgow in it, but this will give you an idea about the character:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/276070/saturday-night-live-master-thespian

 

[Amaris]

That clip with Patrick Stewart is actually from the movie "Jeffrey", which is about a young gay man who decides to become celibate. (If I recall correctly - and I own a copy, but it's been several years since I watched it - it's largely due to a fear of contracting HIV.) Naturally, just as he makes this decision, he meets the man of his dreams, and has to decide whether or not to get involved with him.

So no, I wouldn't call the movie homophobic in the least - especially given that it was written by Paul Rudnick (who also wrote the screenplay for In And Out). It's actually a very sweet movie.

I liked it, and Patrick Stewart is actually hysterically funny in it. (It had quite the cast, too - Steven Weber, Michael T. Weiss, Christine Baranski, Sigourney Weaver, Victor Garber, Camryn Manheim, Kathy Najimy, Nathan Lane, Ethan Phillips and Olympia Dukakis are all in it, and Peter Jacobson and Kevin Nealon have small parts as well. If memory serves, Alex Trebek is also in it, though the IMDb page doesn't list him.)

It's a wonderful movie. Bit of a tear-jerker too, if I remember correctly. It's been about 10 years since I watched it.

 

[JarodRussell]

So no, I wouldn't call the movie homophobic in the least - especially given that it was written by Paul Rudnick (who also wrote the screenplay for In And Out). It's actually a very sweet movie.

That's an interesting point and relates to my question. What if it were written by a straight man? Would you suddenly get the feeling "Hm, he's making fun OF gays, right?"?

 

[gturner]

Chuck Lorre is very good at using stereotypes for comedy, such as in 2 1/2 Men and The Big Bang Theory. Big Bang has the stereotype of physics geeks/comic book geeks, biologists, dumb blonde actress wannabes, Indians, Jews, Star Trek actors, and Texas Bible thumping creationists.

All are true, especially Star Trek actors.

 

[sidious618]

"Two and a Half Men" is objectionable on an intellectual level; I won't even touch its racist and sexist connotations.

So what do you think about the audience of that show? Are they stupid racists, sexists and homophobes?

I think they're lazy TV viewers who either don't know or don't care that they're watching unintelligent TV and are content to turn on anything that will help them zone out for 30 minutes.