The Federation not having any money

[T'Girl]

If there's no class, there's no negative class inequality

But class isn't based solely on money, look at Doctor Bashir and his father. Julian is a successful doctor and his father a "low class" loser, do they enjoy the same social (class) standing among Humans, or in the Federation? Captain Picard is in a higher class than Ensign Ro, a hierarchy of authority, do you think Ensign Ro's quarters possessed windows?

As a Vulcan Elder, T'Pau would definitely seem to be in a higher class.

The Federation might not "officially" acknowledge one, but would that would stop a class system from existing? The Federation Charter forbids caste-based discrimination, but no mention of forbidding simply having castes, or classes, or social distinctions, etc..

the only things that would hold value in a world where most anything can be replicated would be things that can't be replicated

In the episode "The Child" (TNG), LaForge needed to replicate hundreds of special containers, producing them would require so much time and power that the Enterprise would be incapable of going to warp for hours. Because of the resources required to manufacture them (and if necessary replace them), these containers would therefor hold more value than one of Picard's tea cups.

If my 24th century job paid more credits into my account, than your job paid into your, my account would hold more value. Your all capable replicator can't reproduce my efforts, my skills or my knowledge.

If The UFP used dollars, and I needed some dollars, I'd replicate some dollars. Problem solved.

As seen on screen, the Federation has a criminal court system and penal colonies (even in the 24th century), replicate Federation "dollars" tighr and you might become acquainted with them both.

It has been conjecture in previous threads concerning the replicator, that they might be hard programmed not to replicate certain objects and materials. Copywitten items, intellectual property, drugs, weapons, explosives and the like.

If you place a Federation "dollar" in your replicator and told it to reproduce it in quantity, what make you think (one) that it would actually do it, and (two) that your replicator wouldn't call the police?

 

[Timo]

The fact that I'm a halfway decent mechanic, and can easily disable the policing functions of the unit I use for my horrible crime?

LaForge or Torres could do it in half a second, dead drunk and blinded by blood from their own severed arms. Torres certainly was a criminal without any respect for those UFP laws that she found inconvenient, such as "don't shoot at Starfleet". Is it really plausible that she wouldn't have replicated tons upon tons of physical currency if such a thing were in use in a culture capable of selling something the Maquis needed?

Replicators and gold-pressed latinum mix well enough, suggesting that GPL isn't a physical currency based on the value of latinum, but more like a system of numbered and registered bills that just happen to be made of GPL. Federation credit might be similarly irreplicable: replicating a gigaton of futuro-paper or whatever wouldn't help unless the futuro-paper were printed with plausible serial numbers that the crediting system could verify at any time. Out of two such futuro-paper pieces with the same number, only one could serve as currency; the system would reject the other.

If the system could be defeated with cybercrime skills, then the forgery part could be eliminated and the wealth obtained directly through cybercrime.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

LaForge or Torres could do it in half a second

Please, in seven years Torres couldn't even figure out how to run the Voyager's replicators off of the holodeck power grid, neither was LaForge shown to be particularly skilled with the device.

If they can't monkey it, what makes you think you can?
Plus the Earth's and the Federation's money is most likely data only.

 

[Timo]

The canon definition of a Federation engineer is "making replicators out of rocks" (or the opposite of McGyvering where you take a main battle tank and turn it into a handy mallet). Replicators didn't seem particularly problematic in VOY, either: the ship was fully repaired as soon as she left Kazon territory and began finding friendly ports. Sticking to a rationing system and Neelix' cooking seemed to be a morale management measure only; the replicators made perfectly good clarinets, after all.

Plus the Earth's and the Federation's money is most likely data only.

Yup, that's my argument as well. Replicators make physical currency irrelevant, save for it serving as a convenient and pretty code-carrying medium.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyke101]

If there's no class, there's no negative class inequality

But class isn't based solely on money, look at Doctor Bashir and his father. Julian is a successful doctor and his father a "low class" loser, do they enjoy the same social (class) standing among Humans, or in the Federation? Captain Picard is in a higher class than Ensign Ro, a hierarchy of authority, do you think Ensign Ro's quarters possessed windows?

As a Vulcan Elder, T'Pau would definitely seem to be in a higher class.

The Federation might not "officially" acknowledge one, but would that would stop a class system from existing? The Federation Charter forbids caste-based discrimination, but no mention of forbidding simply having castes, or classes, or social distinctions, etc..

Yeah you're right, I should have clarified: I meant economic class, not social class, and I brought up Lwaxana Troi as an example for a separate point. Even if people are deemed "lower economic class" like Robert Picard and Bashir's father, they don't seem to be disparaged as such, and in many cases if there's an inferiority complex it seems to be self-inflicted (unless you're someone like Lwaxana...). Everyone has a role to play in this society, but that doesn't exclude advancing to reach your professional ambitions either.

Also: only in Trek would a member of the lower class, in this case Robert Picard, own a vineyard.

 

[tighr]

In the episode "The Child" (TNG), LaForge needed to replicate hundreds of special containers, producing them would require so much time and power that the Enterprise would be incapable of going to warp for hours. Because of the resources required to manufacture them (and if necessary replace them), these containers would therefor hold more value than one of Picard's tea cups.

They may hold higher priority on the replication "queue" than one of Picard's teacups (same reason I have to pull my car over on the road for an ambulance), but the energy required to make one container and one teacup would remain constant (my car uses the same gasoline as that ambulance). Its probably based on the number of molecules or gross weight or whatever the replicator uses as a measuring statistic.

These were also being replicated on a starship; its likely that a similar replication feat taking place on a planet would not be limited in this way (more freely available energy). You can bet your bottom dollar that planets probably had numerous reactors generating more gigawatts of energy per minute than a starship could do in a day.

If my 24th century job paid more credits into my account, than your job paid into your, my account would hold more value. Your all capable replicator can['t] [sic] reproduce my efforts, my skills or my knowledge.

I think the idea of 24th century jobs having credits at all was a manufacture of this thread; I don't recall anywhere in canon hearing that jobs paid anything.

There's nothing to say that Riker's latinum was a credit from the Federation; far more likely that he won them in gambling. His initial investment might have come from trading some other un-replicatable object to a Ferengi or other race that uses money.

The idea here is that the Federation doesn't need money internally. They wouldn't need to buy things in Federation space, so its irrelevant. Just like I have no reason to have Euros in my pocket if I'm an American, but I can get some and use them if I'm in Europe. My company isn't going to give them to me, though.

 

[Timo]

...Whereas Starfleet might give them to Riker because they are as useful a tool for him as a tricorder or a phaser. He wouldn't have an urge to misuse the wealth, because back home it would merely be so much pocket weight.

Starfleet or the UFP typically wouldn't want to ruin an alien economy by flooding it with self-manufactured cash (even though any replicator society would be inherently capable of doing so to any replicator-less one, and Starfleet does love nonlethal weapons) - but OTOH would have no reason to withhold self-manufactured funds from its field agents, who'd only use those in moderate amounts. The moral high ground gained by obtaining "real" local money as opposed to replicating some would not be high enough to matter, and our heroes might indeed think that bypassing the faulty and downright evil local economy would be the proper thing to do.

I don't recall anywhere in canon hearing that jobs paid anything

...Even in TOS, the sole reference to Scotty "earning his pay" could be taken as referring to an ancient practice rather than an ongoing one.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nightdiamond]

If these credits buy things a replicator can easily make, then it still makes the credits relatively valueless.

If humans are really valuing their accounts..then uh oh...they're "wanting" something.

This subject is fascinating because it reveals a lot about 24th century humans.

Dracula's Castle:

If you place a Federation "dollar" in your replicator and told it to reproduce it in quantity, what make you think (one) that it would actually do it, and (two) that your replicator wouldn't call the police?

This, however, is a really good argument for why money can still exist and hold value in the Federation.

 

[T'Girl]

Even if people are deemed "lower economic class" like Robert Picard and ...

Actually, I would consider Robert Picard, if anything, as a member of the upper-middle class or upper class. He has a fairly large piece of land and dwells in a fairly large house. One of the possible interpretation for Jean-Luc's strange belief that money has no place could be his adversarial relationship with Robert. Robert being a somewhat financially well-to-do man (perhaps one of the wealthiest in the home village) lead the younger Picard to denounce his brother's lifestyle.

The few vineyard owners that I met in my life have all been financially well off.

You can bet your bottom dollar that planets probably had numerous reactors ...

Mister President, even with planetary reserves we cannot survive without the sun.

According to the movie The Voyager Home, Earth at least is powered primarily by solar power. There's no canon that I can remember where any planet is powered by "reactors." Just because starships possess M/AM reactors doesn't mean planets do.

The idea here is that the Federation doesn't need money internally.

But that idea is not canon, there's no indication that food purchased at Quark's bar and food purchased at Sisko's restaurant are any different. Both are commercial businesses. Where does this idea of yours that there a different "internal" economy come from?

Even in TV drama set in the present day, you will rarely see people pay in stores and restaurants. If the bill is part of the plot sure, but the absence of payment isn't an indicate of "free stuff."

I think the idea of 24th century jobs having credits at all was a manufacture of this thread; I don't recall anywhere in canon hearing that jobs paid anything.

Vash was getting paid for her various jobs, the guy in the Earth system who bought Quark's damaged shuttle had credits (or whatever name). Kirk had the credits (whatever) to purchase the house that he eventual sold. McCoy had credits to pay the alien pilot for a trip to Genesis Planet. Scotty had the credits to buy a boat. Uhura had credits to buy a tribble.

Now you can swing it back and forth, but Starfleet had credits (whatever name), they invested credits in Spock's training. Kirk, McCoy, Scotty and Uhura all were officers in Starfleet, they all had credits, how much of a streach is it that they all were getting paid?

Crusher "somehow" acquired units of value (credits maybe?) to place in her account sufficant to purchase things.

They wouldn't need to buy things in Federation space

Like wormholes?

Just like I have no reason to have Euros in my pocket if I'm an American ...

The stores and restuarants in Seattle will take them, Canadian dollars, Japanese yen, Mexican peso. The cash register gives the current exchange rate.

When I came back from a family visit to Brazil, I still had some reais on me.
No problem, it's money ... isn't capitalism wonderful?

 

[JarodRussell]

I still think it's fairly simple.

Let's say in order to replicate 1 kilogram of gold, it will take a certain amount of energy. Let's say 48 sunlight hours on a 99,9% efficient 10 square meter solar panel. Or 0.01 gramms of antimatter. Or something.

If you want 1 kg of gold, but don't want to wait 48 hours for your solar panel on your roof to produce enough energy, you maybe have to acquire energy packages. You can also trade spare energy you produced but not need with others.

These "energy packages" could be converted to credits easily.


And I think business in Trek is like 95% service, arts and science, and only very few production jobs. Sisko's father is a cook. Quark is a bartender, gambler (and weapons dealer in one episode), Jake Sisko is a writer/journalist. The Picards own a vineyard because you can't (and don't want to) replicate a specific wine either. The rest of the people we see is mostly scientists. The few miners we see are mining for dilithium, because that can't be replicated. Think of people being able to actually do what they like. They are no longer forced to work for a living. Instead they can simply live. How cool is that? Nothing is holding back from turning your hobby into work. Want to be a writer? Be a writer. Want to be a doctor? Be a doctor. Want to be a scientist? Be a scientist. You don't have to worry about your living costs, so you can fully concentrate on the craft, on the study. And work to better yourself. How many people in this day and age cannot fulfill their dreams because poverty is holding them back?

There's no reason to earn money to be able to live. Food, clothing, homes, health care, everything's for free. Which in turn eliminates greed. You no longer NEED to be compensated for your work, because you don't need money.

I seriously like this concept.

 

[Cyke101]

Even if people are deemed "lower economic class" like Robert Picard and ...

Actually, I would consider Robert Picard, if anything, as a member of the upper-middle class or upper class. He has a fairly large piece of land and dwells in a fairly large house. One of the possible interpretation for Jean-Luc's strange belief that money has no place could be his adversarial relationship with Robert. Robert being a somewhat financially well-to-do man (perhaps one of the wealthiest in the home village) lead the younger Picard to denounce his brother's lifestyle.

The thing is, I don't know if Robert Picard would consider himself as such. He takes great pride in having to toil and sweat for the fruits (pun intended) of his labor, and he seems to think that Jean-Luc's achievements don't do much in the way of modesty or tying him to the homeland culturally. Which, I suppose, goes into what Trek characters consider themselves as. While Lwaxana clearly sees herself as upper class, I would think Robert Picard considers himself salt of the earth, blue collar (of course, that's not to say there aren't wealthy blue collar workers out there either). Jean-Luc gets all these feats of heroism and repeated chances to meet heads of state; Robert on the other hand probably considers himself as working class in the truest sense of the term.

Forgive the length of the post, but I started thinking about Miles O'Brien as well. When we last saw O'Brien he was going to become a professor at the Academy. Assuming good pay in Trek, I wouldn't be surprised if he dismissed your almost stereotypical economic labels of college professors, preferring instead to consider himself an everyman who just happens to have a cushy, intellectual position. When Jean-Luc lectures, he mingles with the finest minds in the room. If Miles lectures, I bet he'll want to go to a bar with students after class away from the environment. Neither approach is wrong, they're just two different approaches to the same and (theoretically) equal job. It's just that one defies societal expectation associated with social class. In this sense, I'd equate Miles O'Brien with Robert Picard -- again, assuming that there's such a thing as financial compensation in Trek. Working class in the 21st century could mean something a bit more elevated and advanced in the 24th century (I should hope so, anyway. Solving the problems of poverty while maintaining an economic system is itself a miracle on par with time travel and replicators).

The few vineyard owners that I met in my life have all been financially well off.

Oh, I'm so sure about that -- that's why I made the little joke that things are so good and utopic in Trek that a financially lucrative career as vineyard owner would be seen as dirty, humble, honest, work. I, for one, would *love* to run a vineyard someday. And as mentioned earlier, brands like Dom Perignon are still considered worthy for starship launches (only the best for Starfleet?).

 

[Deks]

And I think business in Trek is like 95% service, arts and science, and only very few production jobs. Sisko's father is a cook. Quark is a bartender, gambler (and weapons dealer in one episode), Jake Sisko is a writer/journalist. The Picards own a vineyard because you can't (and don't want to) replicate a specific wine either. The rest of the people we see is mostly scientists. The few miners we see are mining for dilithium, because that can't be replicated. Think of people being able to actually do what they like. They are no longer forced to work for a living. Instead they can simply live. How cool is that? Nothing is holding back from turning your hobby into work. Want to be a writer? Be a writer. Want to be a doctor? Be a doctor. Want to be a scientist? Be a scientist. You don't have to worry about your living costs, so you can fully concentrate on the craft, on the study. And work to better yourself. How many people in this day and age cannot fulfill their dreams because poverty is holding them back?

There's no reason to earn money to be able to live. Food, clothing, homes, health care, everything's for free. Which in turn eliminates greed. You no longer NEED to be compensated for your work, because you don't need money.

I seriously like this concept.

This is essentially the gist of it.
But you also have to keep in mind that a moneyless economy can exist easily without replicators or transporters (and in Trek, it did by late 22nd century to be exact per Star Trek: Voyager - implying that it's the formation of the Federation that got rid of money - which still existed when humanity eliminated poverty, greed, wars and diseases per Troy in the 50 years following the FC with the Vulcans).
World problems eliminated by early 22nd century, and money eliminated in the late 22nd century as a result of the Federation (it makes sense, because they probably figured that bartering resources and technology or services such as skills and whatnot would be a better and more direct approach to satisfying both parties/alien races without introducing 'credits' or any kind of 'currency' or 'money' because for the most part, it would be useless in an alien economy if based on money).
Elimination of poverty, diseases and wars was basically already a large mentality change for humanity (which easily sets precedent for everything else - elimination of greed and material wealth) ... so money was the last 'vestige' that went down eventually.

 

[Deks]

The words, phrases and their meanings and definitions couldn't have changed too much, because we can still follow the narrative of the story that's being presented.

But that's just it... in YOUR opinion. While for the TV audience (the early 21st century humans) those terms would mean what they mean (and I can tell you that even today they can be interpreted in other ways), for the characters of the fictional Trek, the definitions could mean something else.
There have been various times when certain systems were never sufficiently described... that doesn't mean one can or should superimpose contemporary views onto what was done in the show... because it would be presumptuous, and arrogant, not to mention very unscientific.

If a simple concept such as "bank" has changed meaning, then what in the world did Picard and Jake Sisko mean when they used the word "money."

Quite possibly it was meant in the same context it is used today, but keep in mind they used the term when dealing with races that had THEIR OWN economic system in place.

Prior to my post, I did look up the exact meaning of the word bank. Instead of using bank, the story could have employed the term repository, or storage facility, or data center. But the story didn't, the writers wanted the audience to understand what they were referring to when they said "Bank of Bolias." And what they meant was a financial institution.

Morn (from DS9) was a patron of the Bank of Bolias, he had an account with them (There's that word account again).

Which again could simply mean that Morn could have stored something else besides currency or money into his 'account'. 'Bank' as a term can also mean a repository or a storage facility. For Bolians in their own language, it could mean exactly that for all we know, but the translation to english would essentially be bank - to cater to the simple-minded folks of the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
Besides, I cannot stress how important it is NOT to make an assumption that Bolians were part of the UFP because it wasn't directly stated. Worf was from the Klingon Empire for example and they are not part of the UFP, just close allies.
Neelix was an ambassador, and Talax is not part of UFP.
For that matter, we don't know if Risa is part of the UFP because it was never stated.
It may be located in or surrounded by Federation territory, but not be part of it. That would mean that both Vash and Picard would have to use currency for getting things on Risa itself.

If he in fact has "a restaurant" then yes, Joseph prepares and serves food and drink, in return receives money, compensation, or value in some form.

We know he has a restaurant, prepares and serves food and drink... what we DON'T know if he's getting money, compensation or value in some form.
Think of the restaurant as an earth bound version of a star-ship mess hall. People go there to enjoy the setting, drink, eat, whatever, and Sisko's father could easily be doing all of that for free... although he could be getting material compensation from the economical system (in terms of food) so he wouldn't have to use his own personal replicator (if he has it). Why?
Because his service is recognized and he would likely be allocated a certain amount of food daily or weekly to feed the people so they can enjoy it.
Whoever said 'money' or 'currency' has to play a part of any kind?

Where's the 'no money' discussion? What were the problems in the transition? How do they interact with other systems? What (if anything) prevents people in the other systems from milking the no money system for foreign profit? Just as Robert Picard refuses to have a replicator, are there people on Earth who refuse the no money system?

Why would there be problems in the transition?
Once people's mentalities/priorities change, it's likely that they will adapt their systems to match.
Today people don't do it because those in positions of power DON'T WANT IT.
Short of a civil war or some kind of a conflict on part of those who put the governments in positions of power which would be based on the demand to CHANGE the economic system/model to something else, you won't get.
You think that people in the government would enjoy switching over their power to the people (as it should be in democracy btw)?
As for what prevents people from 'milking' the system in Trek...
I would surmise that the big touted 'mentality change' that ensued in the 5 decades after FC with the Vulcans and getting rid of money by forming the Federation in late 22nd century had something to do with it.

There are probably people in Trek who refuse to have a replicator or live in the money-less system.
Most (if not all) of those people leave Earth to do something else, and they usually dabble with races whose economies are currency/money based.

 

[Cyke101]

Where's the 'no money' discussion? What were the problems in the transition? How do they interact with other systems? What (if anything) prevents people in the other systems from milking the no money system for foreign profit? Just as Robert Picard refuses to have a replicator, are there people on Earth who refuse the no money system?

Why would there be problems in the transition?
Once people's mentalities/priorities change, it's likely that they will adapt their systems to match.

Because whenever there's a major shift or innovation in socioeconomic thinking, there's always going to be problems, as nothing on that scale changes easily overnight. To note, when the world economy shifted emphasis on imaginary money (stocks, credit) in the 19th century, there were at least 9 stock market crashes over 90 years (sometimes suffering a crash while still in recovering from the previous one) because the world was still trying to adapt and understand this system. Yeah, that adaptation required mentalities and priorities to change, but it was an immense cultural shift that took decades.

Rather, if the 23rd/24th centuries have perfected a moneyless system, I would think those transitional problems happened much earlier than what we see on screen (perhaps between ENT and the TOS movies, with Kirk and Co. on the tail end of that change?). I'm not saying that a moneyless system is impossible in Trek, it's just that on the scale we're talking about here (which is nothing short of global revolution), it would be a pretty long and difficult process to take.

 

[Deks]

Whoever said it was done overnight?
Humans in Trek got rid of poverty, diseases, hunger and wars in the 5 decades after FC with the Vulcans.
Money went the way of the dinosaurs in the late 22nd century.
No one said it happened over night... 5 decades is what it took to eliminate problems Earth suffers from today... and another 5 decades to get rid of money.
That's essentially 100 years of change.

Plus, it's entirely possible that Humans were going to phase out money anyway, and the formation of the Federation would have given them extra incentive to do it.
Since money was still apparently in use by the time Enterprise NX-01 was in service, getting into space and deciding to form the Coalition was probably (but not necessarily) what created this incentive.
It was what... about 7 ears between the formation of the Coalition to the birth of the UFP.
That gives humans enough time to implement whatever changes they might see fit.
And why wouldn't they?
They already eliminated majority (most) of the problems that plagued them 50 years ago (from their point of view)... money could have easily been the final step (one that they were planning to phase out either way).

Just because some people from this era cannot imagine a world without money or the system that's currently in place, doesn't mean it's unattainable.
It's more than possible.
Always was... but for the most part (and exceptions excluded), Humans are STILL acting like children.

 

[Cyke101]

Whoever said it was done overnight?
Humans in Trek got rid of poverty, diseases, hunger and wars in the 5 decades after FC with the Vulcans.
Money went the way of the dinosaurs in the late 22nd century.
No one said it happened over night... 5 decades is what it took to eliminate problems Earth suffers from today... and another 5 decades to get rid of money.
That's essentially 100 years of change.

Because if it's a 100 years of change -- and that seems reasonable to me -- that means there were at least a 100 years of problems in the transition that needed to be ironed out before we get the economy we see in Trek. That was the response to one of your questions:

Why would there be problems in the transition?
Once people's mentalities/priorities change, it's likely that they will adapt their systems to match.

Why would there be problems? Because they're growing pains, that's why. Change is hard, changing mentalities and priorities are almost herculean -- it's painful and arduous. That's the problem. Assuming humanity achieves those changes, that means they went through a process (almost heroically) fraught with problems before ultimately solving them to attain utopia.

Also, I kind of take note with your claim that humanity got rid of all those societal problems 5 decades after First Contact, simply because Enterprise gave us examples of racism, xenophobia, power hunger, infighting, and megalomania on Earth. In fact, one of the major points of Terra Nova was that humanity still had a ways to go before becoming an enlightened member of the intergalactic community (nevermind leader of the future Federation). A hundred years after FC and those problems were still present but at least were actively discussed and getting worked on by humanity.

 

[Hofner]

For a post-scarcity Star Trek universe there sure seems to be a lot of scarce things. Picard's non-replicated rare vintage bottles of wine, non-replicated rare achaelogical artifacts, his family owning rich vineyards in France...

Hmmm, for someone who says humanity has evolved beyound the need for material possessions, he's got quite a few of them. I guess it's a case of "Do what I say, not what I do."

Robert

 

[Cyke101]

For a post-scarcity Star Trek universe there sure seems to be a lot of scarce things. Picard's non-replicated rare vintage bottles of wine, non-replicated rare achaelogical artifacts, his family owning rich vineyards in France...

Hmmm, for someone who says humanity has evolved beyound the need for material possessions, he's got quite a few of them. I guess it's a case of "Do what I say, not what I do."

Robert

I get what you're saying, but to be fair some of that might be a kind of law or protection in place that adapts to the wonders of replication. There's still something very much to be said about the value of the original, the things that aren't lost (nevermind the quality of synthehol, which makes me wonder what's the point).

 

[tighr]

I was under the impression that replicators were perfectly capable of making actual alcohol, but that synthehol was developed as a substitute.

 

[T'Girl]

we don't know if Risa is part of the UFP because it was never stated..

In "Let He Who Is Without Sin," Fullerton said that Risa, "... revels in the kind of self-indulgence that's eroding the foundations of Federation society." Later Worf referrs to Risa as, "It's an artificially created paradise, maintained by the most elaborate weather control system in the Federation."

how important it is NOT to make an assumption that

It's you who assumes that the Vulcan Master (not merchant) who sold the meditation lamp to Tuvok was somehow "outside" the Federation when the transaction occured. This was neither stipulated, nor implied.

But that's just it... in YOUR opinion.

My opinion?

Hardly, it was the opinion of the TPTB, the creators, the writers of DS9. As mentioned eariler the intent of the stories involving the Bank of Bolias was that it was a financial institution. When the occupation of Joseph Sisko was determined, the discision was to make him the owner of a restaurant.

So, let's see how many words have to change meaning for your personal version of Star Trek to exist, there's bank, account, (and "bank account"), restaurant, business, job, what other words have to be changed Deks, for your vision to persist?

There's buy, ---------as in boat.
There's sold, ---------as in house.
There's price, -------as in pay a fair price to the miners for their dilithium.
There's financier, ---as in Mr.Brock is one.
There's purchased, -as in Mr. Brock purchased a planet.
There's pay, ----------as in McCoy can pay to go to genesis.
There's invest, -------as in how much Starfleet has invested in Spock's training.
There's earned, ------as in Scotty earned his pay
There's fortunes, ----as in Carter Winston acquired a dozen fortunes.
There's fine, ----------as in what Quark paid to get Gaila released
There's spent, --------as in the Federation has spent a lot of money on our training.

I'm going to love reading your explaination of that last one in the "new economy" that existed after the 22nd century.

a moneyless economy ...and in Trek, it did by late 22nd century to be exact per Star Trek: Voyager

Actual per Tom Paris, the same guy who said "faster than light, no left or right."

Wouldn't it be much simpler, to mildly change the meaning of just one word? Money. The episode In The Cards, Nog said that Humans had abandoned a currency-based economy. But not a monetary-based economy. When the piano player asked Rike to drop some coins in her tip jar, he said I don't carry money, implying that to Riker money is something which is carried, that has physical form, currency. If value in the 24th century exist only in electronic form, then there is no physical currency. No "money."