A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

[Seven of Five]

Bakula, you came back! Where have you been all my life?

I've only seen Crusade once, and I'm not sure I need to see it again. It was very hit and miss, but, to be fair, B5's first season was too. I suppose there was a glimmer of potential, but since it was shot down after 13 episodes, it's hard to see the show as anything more than merely decent. It's a shame - enormous missed opportunity.

More importantly though, I thought Avatar ruled.

 

[TheGodBen]

In their defence, had the show continued the whole techno-mage thing would defiantly have gone somewhere and there was a *big* reveal written into the unfilmed season finale (which I shall not spoil here.)

I don't think that it would address my problem with them which is that they're presented in a way that I find completely insufferable. They're like those magicians that go on stage wearing capes and pretend that they're really doing magic and talk about the spirits of our ancestors. I am far more receptive to magicians that wear normal clothes and reveal that it's all just elaborate trickery and expect applause for their skill in pulling it off, not for supernatural powers they don't have. To my eye, they're children that never grew up because they were so saddened by the lack of actual magic in the universe that they decided to create it. I am not impressed by them, I pity them more than anything else.

Also, while Max's interest in the Well of Forever may not have been entirely altruistic, what's wrong with him wanting to understand it on a scientific basis? We have enough people in this world that want to impede the advancement of knowledge to protect their superstitions and I strongly advocate hitting those people quite forcefully with lead pipes.


The Path of Sorrows (**½)

Galen () begins this episode by making a woman cry and ends it by trying to murder an alien that makes people feel better about their lives. Good going Galen, you've gone from spying on a starship captain and hijacking a ship in the last episode to attempted murder in this episode. Why doesn't anybody try to lock this guy up? Come on, he's a criminal. The least he deserves is a good hard kick in that area men don't like being kicked in.

This episode is pretty much an excuse to show events from some of the main character's lives, which means it doesn't really work as a self-contained story, it must be judged as a collection of flashbacks. First up is Gideon, who apparently saw his former ship being blowed up real good by a Shadow vessel. Adrift in space, running low on oxygen, and even bigger catastrophe happened to him; he was rescued by Galen. Now Galen gets to treat him like his bitch for all eternity. So that's why Galen hasn't been arrested. Later we see Gideon playing poker when a crazy man decides to gamble away an extremely valuable breadbox on a two pair. Soon after, he realises just how stupid it was to gamble away everything on such a comparatively weak hand and he commits suicide. At least, that was my read on things. So the alien in the bubble forgives Gideon for winning a game of poker (eh? ) and Gideon goes to get a good night's sleep.

Next up is Matheson, who visits the bubble alien in the night because he's desperate for more character development. We learn that he was in the Psi Corps and used to inject rebels with bad things. But after talking to one of the nice rebels he comes to realise that he's working for the bad guys and he switches sides. Telepaths are extremely subtle and love to use psychological warfare, which is why they destroy the Psi Corps base with a nuke. The bubble alien forgives Matheson for siding with the good guys (eh? ) and Matheson goes to get a good night's sleep.

Finally, Galen pays a visit to the alien. The flashback reveals that Galen comes from a world originally settled by English thespians and that his not-quite-wife dies for some reason, but not before they get a final scene together where she gets to relay a message to him that will be have relevance in the future. Galen refuses to forgive God for this act and decides to take out his anger on the bubble alien by throwing a fireball at it. But Gideon and Matheson show up just in time and save the alien. The next day they return the alien to the planet, but not before Gideon and Matheson have a tender moment together that I'm choosing to imagine has romantic undertones.

I found the first two flashbacks interesting enough as I learned something about those characters. Galen's flashback was as insufferable as the man himself and the story connecting all this together was pretty meh.

Scott Bakula: 91

 

[Admiral Shran]

More importantly though, I thought Avatar ruled.

Blasphemy!!


And as for Galen - Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ, just stop. I thought Byron was was bad! I'm beginning to think I'll take him over Galen any day.

 

[Kegg]

Well Matheson's thing would be a case of wanting a chipper, heroic character to feel guilty about something without making the audience feel repelled at him. If Matheson had a more unpleasant demon in his closet he'd be in severe danger of becoming interesting.

More importantly though, I thought Avatar ruled.

And as for Galen - Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ, just stop. I thought Byron was was bad! I'm beginning to think I'll take him over Galen any day.

You sirs are both correct.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

To my eye, they're children that never grew up because they were so saddened by the lack of actual magic in the universe that they decided to create it. I am not impressed by them, I pity them more than anything else.

I like this. Well said. And it reminds me now of Alwyn's dragon; it was more pathetic than whimsical, really, wasn't it?

 

[Reverend]

^It's a matter of perspective. The admittedly whimsical style of the techno-mages is somewhat tempered by the fact that these guys really can throw fireballs and not just play with illusion. Allot of what they do belies just how powerful and truly dangerous they can be and I think that's half the point.

Personally when they first showed up on B5 I just thought it was an interesting idea to take Clarke's famous quote to it's logical extreme.

Put it this way, just think what if B5 had stopped mid way into season one, how different and incomplete would your opinion of the main characters (G'Kar & Londo especially) have been at that point.

Londo and G'Kar basically drive all the good stuff in "Midnight on the Firing Line", and are fairly interesting at that early stage in a way Galen never is. Part of it, of course, is that even at this juncture they're presented as dramatic figures who deal in murky political fortunes. I don't know how much to blame Woodward and how much to blame JMS, in fairness, but Galen is Byronically insufferable. JMS can write characters in a certain smug way, and while sometimes a performer can elevate the role (G'Kar in season five could have been much smarmier), some of them ham that element up.

Not spoiling the finale reveal either, but there's nothing in it that salvages the Technomages or Galen for me.

Part of the reason Londo and G'Kar work early on is that even that that juncture they're morally ambiguous and dealing in a messy political situation. Some of JMS's strongest character writing is for characters like that and while Max is no Londo, he's the best shot Crusade has on this front.

The point I was trying to make was that all the main B5 characters had definite arcs and were very different people in season five from who they were at the beginning of season one. I think it's a given that similar arcs were planned for the crew of the Excalibur. Remember, no one here is exactly what they appear.

This episode is pretty much an excuse to show events from some of the main character's lives, which means it doesn't really work as a self-contained story, it must be judged as a collection of flashbacks. First up is Gideon, who apparently saw his former ship being blowed up real good by a Shadow vessel. Adrift in space, running low on oxygen, and even bigger catastrophe happened to him; he was rescued by Galen.

Hmm...what an amazing coincidence.

Later we see Gideon playing poker when a crazy man decides to gamble away an extremely valuable breadbox on a two pair. Soon after, he realises just how stupid it was to gamble away everything on such a comparatively weak hand and he commits suicide. At least, that was my read on things. So the alien in the bubble forgives Gideon for winning a game of poker (eh? ) and Gideon goes to get a good night's sleep.

^Did anyone else get a major Rod Sterling vibe from this segment? Hell, the whole concept of the Apocalypse Box feels like it jumped straight out of the Twilight Zone. Also, (random trivia time) I think that was our first ever glimpse of a car in the B5 universe.

 

[David cgc]

This take on the technomages is especially interesting knowing the backstory. Long story short:

Spoiler: The Technomage Novels and four and a half seasons of Crusade that didn't happen

The Technomages were the Shadows' special weapon against the Vorlons, the same as the Vorlons made telepaths to fight the Shadows. The Order was a group of survivors of the first batch that struck out on their own to try to use the technology for good instead of evil. The Shadows kept supplying them with tech in the hopes that they'd be able to use them later, and the Technomages kept taking it, because they thought they could avoid doing the Shadows' bidding. Still, it was very common for Technomages to go bad.

All the dragons and fireballs and wizard robes and rituals and incantations are ways to maintain discipline and positive vibes to overcome the technomage's tech constantly telling them to kill everything at the slightest provocation. Galen and a few others learned to get rid of that programming and zen out, but most of them still have a Shadow-issued short temper.

 

[Lindley]

Technomages take things that are wondrous and exciting, science and technology, and they try to reduce it to something magical.

I don't think that it would address my problem with them which is that they're presented in a way that I find completely insufferable. They're like those magicians that go on stage wearing capes and pretend that they're really doing magic and talk about the spirits of our ancestors. I am far more receptive to magicians that wear normal clothes and reveal that it's all just elaborate trickery and expect applause for their skill in pulling it off, not for supernatural powers they don't have. To my eye, they're children that never grew up because they were so saddened by the lack of actual magic in the universe that they decided to create it. I am not impressed by them, I pity them more than anything else.

What you may not realize about Technomages is that they don't really understand the technology either. They know how to use it, but they did not create it and they have little understanding of its workings. In fact they occasionally find new capabilities they didn't know that it had.

This is elaborated in detail in The Passing of the Technomages book trilogy. Basically, they're the Jedi of Babylon 5.

 

[Kegg]

What you may not realize about Technomages is that they don't really understand the technology either.

In other words, the Technomages aren't really smart people with a deep understanding of technology who use that knowledge to create an aura of magic... by countering their own ignorance with superstituous self-assurance they manage to be more obnoxious than they initially appeared.

Ah, Technomages. They worked better than say, Soul Hunters in a single episode, but I don't think it was a concept that bears much revisiting.

The point I was trying to make was that all the main B5 characters had definite arcs and were very different people in season five from who they were at the beginning of season one.

I'm aware of that. But I was counter-observing that isn't a defence for how terrible a character Galen is in season one, since Babylon 5 was able to do that without ever having Londo or G'Kar stoop to his level.

The man was in a telefilm, approximately a dozen episodes of TV, and a DVD release. He's consistently terrible, and even if he was salvageable, it doesn't excuse how bad he is (just as the stuff that's flat out terrible in Babylon 5's first season isn't mitigated by how good the show gets later).

 

[Lindley]

Ah, Technomages. They worked better than say, Soul Hunters in a single episode, but I don't think it was a concept that bears much revisiting.

And yet, the Passing of the Technomages is an excellent trilogy.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Ah, Technomages. They worked better than say, Soul Hunters in a single episode, but I don't think it was a concept that bears much revisiting.

And yet, the Passing of the Technomages is an excellent trilogy.

Yes, it is. For some reason, the whole technomage thing seems to work better in that medium than rendered onto the small screen where ham acting can run riot.

 

[RoJoHen]

My big problem with the Technomages is that their introduction in B5 was also their departure from the series. We had no backstory nor any reason to care that they were leaving. It was really hard to give a shit.

 

[David cgc]

The point I was trying to make was that all the main B5 characters had definite arcs and were very different people in season five from who they were at the beginning of season one.

I don't even understand how that happened, but that's not my post.

 

[Jan]

I liked the Galen in the series but the one in the novels just never came over as the same character to me.

Jan

 

[Reverend]

The point I was trying to make was that all the main B5 characters had definite arcs and were very different people in season five from who they were at the beginning of season one.

I don't even understand how that happened, but that's not my post.

^A techno-mage must have done it.

I liked the Galen in the series but the one in the novels just never came over as the same character to me.

Jan

I still haven't gotten around to reading them yet, but I gather the idea was to show how drastically the events of the novels (I gather the flashback from 'Path of Sorrows' was part of them) has changed him. No idea if that logic holds much water though. All I can say is that I've gotten about a third of the way through the last Centauri book and the two or three times he's shown up has been pretty much in line with the Peter Woodward's performance.

By contrast, Bester's characterisation in the second & third Psi Corps novels was pretty much dead on, but, to be fair that author had a lot more to go on.

 

[Kegg]

And yet, the Passing of the Technomages is an excellent trilogy.

Haven't read any of the Babylon 5 books or comics (if they were ever available here they are before my time) so no comment.

I don't even understand how that happened, but that's not my post.

^A techno-mage must have done it.

GALEN!

But seriously I multiquoted a half dozen posts, and then pared it down to the handful of quotes I wanted to append to whatever the heck it was I was saying. I grabbed David's post, then realized I could just use Reverend's for that point, and clearly, my editing skills are as sloppy and lazy as ever.

Been corrected, though!

 

[Jan]

I liked the Galen in the series but the one in the novels just never came over as the same character to me.

Jan

I still haven't gotten around to reading them yet, but I gather the idea was to show how drastically the events of the novels (I gather the flashback from 'Path of Sorrows' was part of them) has changed him. No idea if that logic holds much water though. All I can say is that I've gotten about a third of the way through the last Centauri book and the two or three times he's shown up has been pretty much in line with the Peter Woodward's performance.

I really need to read them again and be on the lookout for just such a change. I just kinda disliked the novel version from the start and probably didn't keep an open enough mind.

By contrast, Bester's characterisation in the second & third Psi Corps novels was pretty much dead on, but, to be fair that author had a lot more to go on.

True. And the backstory was great, too.

Jan

 

[TheGodBen]

Patterns of the Soul (**)

This episode is kind of hard to judge, it keep swerving between being vaguely interesting and being somewhat dull. That has nothing to do with A or B plots, it's just that some scenes and plot points are interesting and others are not. The overall plot felt tired as I've seen it a few times, but I the conspiracy and the infected food stuff was a twist that held my attention. I liked the leader of the world, he seemed like a reasonable guy, it's a pity he didn't have the charisma to keep his people in line. The other colonist guy that kidnapped the doctor and tried to run was a cliché, could have done without him. Dureena running into some of her people was just kind of there. The episode had Max, which was good, but he didn't really do anything.

The solution seemed a little rushed and I'm not sure how Gideon got that one past the brass. Dr Chambers is clearly in view on the bridge of the colonist's ship right before it blows up, so is she going to pretend that she's dead from now on? Wouldn't the General guy want a little more proof than an edited video showing a ship being blowed up real good?

I have some other thoughts but they're more about the show as a whole and I think they'd work better when I do my season wrap-up. I know that you're all on the edge of your seats to find out what I have to say, just be patient and wait a day or two.

Scott Bakula: 93

 

[Jan]

The solution seemed a little rushed and I'm not sure how Gideon got that one past the brass. Dr Chambers is clearly in view on the bridge of the colonist's ship right before it blows up, so is she going to pretend that she's dead from now on? Wouldn't the General guy want a little more proof than an edited video showing a ship being blowed up real good?

From the Lurker's Guide:

Chambers could be seen on the shuttle in the footage Gideon showed General Thompson. Won't people wonder why she's still alive?
JMS: It's only ever going to be seen by the general, and bear in mind that in that shot Chambers was WAY in the background, it was only seen for a moment on the monitor, with the General more concerned about what's happening in FG, and in any event he would have to instantly recognize her by sight, and he didn't know her.

High profile mission or not, I don't think most Generals would know all of the department heads on the ships under their command by sight.

Jan

 

[Hound of UIster]

Ah, Technomages. They worked better than say, Soul Hunters in a single episode, but I don't think it was a concept that bears much revisiting.

And yet, the Passing of the Technomages is an excellent trilogy.

Yes as a sleeping aide.