That's okay. Avatar sucked just as hard as this did.
At least they were trying to put some scale into the landscapes, I can't fault them for that. But, yeah, that does look pretty bad.
A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)
- Thread starter TheGodBen
- Start date
That's okay. Avatar sucked just as hard as this did.
At least they were trying to put some scale into the landscapes, I can't fault them for that. But, yeah, that does look pretty bad.
Crusade was at its best when it had a moody atmosphere, almost like the characters were walking through a haunted house. Episodes like "War Zone" did not live up to that.
^Name ONE. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call bullshit on that statement. B5 first aired in '94 and as I recall, only a handful were even using polygons back then instead of sprites. Indeed the only games I can think of that you could even compare to B5 at the time were the X-Wing/Tie Fighter & Wing Commander space combat sims and there's no way those were anywhere near the resolution or poly count of B5's. Indeed, I don't think it was until a few years ago (5 at the outside) that real time rendered graphics overtook early 90's pre-rendered.
^
Quite. Babylon 5's CGI was generally better than any video game released while the show was on the air.
Avatar handily beats every Crusade episode ever filmed, which, I'll admit, is not much of a boast. More pertinently, the Technomages were all too often an excuse to bandy about really terrible fantasy cliches, and "The Long Road" is sort of a nadir here.
Quite. Babylon 5's CGI was generally better than any video game released while the show was on the air.
Avatar handily beats every Crusade episode ever filmed, which, I'll admit, is not much of a boast. More pertinently, the Technomages were all too often an excuse to bandy about really terrible fantasy cliches, and "The Long Road" is sort of a nadir here.
I wouldn't go that far. I'd say by 1998, for example, both Deep Space Nine and Voyager had CGI work a cut above the contemporary Babylon 5 production.
I wouldn't go that far either.
Crusade's CGI ranged from stunning through not bad to WTF!!!
With Doug Netter getting Foundation Imaging kicked off the show (at the end of season 3 of B5, and who were then offered some work on Voyager & DS9), with a view to doing the effects with his own company, the art/business balance was lost and the suits – with both eyes on the budget - took over. Quantity over quality won out and banging out as many CGI shots as possible (often with way too many models on screen) with less experienced staff came with a price, that had nothing to do with TNT.
http://www.themadgoner.com/B5/B5Scrolls/B5Scrolls.htm#Screen1_11_9
Crusade's CGI ranged from stunning through not bad to WTF!!!
With Doug Netter getting Foundation Imaging kicked off the show (at the end of season 3 of B5, and who were then offered some work on Voyager & DS9), with a view to doing the effects with his own company, the art/business balance was lost and the suits – with both eyes on the budget - took over. Quantity over quality won out and banging out as many CGI shots as possible (often with way too many models on screen) with less experienced staff came with a price, that had nothing to do with TNT.
http://www.themadgoner.com/B5/B5Scrolls/B5Scrolls.htm#Screen1_11_9
I figured if I could watch cartoons (which I did), why can't my imagination handle some mediocre CG images? So I watched B5, and I'm glad I did.
Unbelievable! You only now started to continue with this thread?! And here I was thinking that TheGodBen has now done a watcher thread in every subforum in trekbbs and probably producing several more. But no! Imagine my surprise when I revisit this site again after a year long break and discover that you just came back 3 days ago.
Wow.
Wow.
Don't blame me, I was busy. Wait, no, what's the opposite of busy? Drunk! Yes, that's it, I was drunk.
Anyway, who are you to judge me? You never finished your DS9 review thread. I was enjoying that.
And don't use being banned because of that thread as an excuse, I was banned right alongside you but I'm still intending to see this thing out.
^That's pretty much what I figured. If you look at the work FI was doing at the same time with DS9 & Voyager it was more or less a steady progression from the quality they turned out on B5 seasons 1-3. ND's work varied quite wildly by comparison and even at their best they were lagging behind.
I suppose part of that can be blamed on the aesthetic the show settled on back when the technology had been pushed to the limit. You know that sort of shiny, almost plastic looking texture and lighting set-ups the meshes often had. When the tech finally allowed the graphics to passably match the look of filmed miniatures, B5 was stuck with that look while the work being done on Trek had to (almost) seamlessly match the non-CGI effects.
Indeed, that's not much of an accomplishment. Isn't that like saying that shit beats diarrhea?
True, DS9 and VOY always had better looking effects.
The Well of Forever (*½)
Galen (It's never a good sign when a review starts with his name) wants to go visit some sort of magical well in hyperspace, and even though Captain Gideon is only given the vaguest possible description of what it is, he decides to go because Galen seems like a nice guy and doesn't seem come across as creepy or anything. Galen has been on thin ice for me from the beginning just by being a technomage. Technomages take things that are wondrous and exciting, science and technology, and they try to reduce it to something magical. They're the Apple of the 23rd century. More than any other character, Galen's personality needs to present itself in a likeable way if I am to forgive him for the horrible crime of being a space-magician. Lying to the captain and hijacking the ship are counter-productive to this cause. I know that Galen thinks he's doing the right thing by keeping his promise, but if his plan involves lying to his friend and putting the lives of the crew in danger then he finds to come up with a better plan.
But there is a bigger sin that Galen commits here, one that is unforgivable. He deletes Max's scans of the Well of McGuffin in order to mess with him. What an asshole. I actually like Max, you're not going to win me over by being mean to the people I like, Galen. Why don't you just fly away and never come back, because nobody likes you.
Also in this episode, some creepy bearded guy mind-rapes Matheson. It's a sign of how much I dislike Galen that I only consider this the third worst thing to happen in the episode. Anyway, bearded man find out some secret that Matheson has been keeping and threatens to have him fired. I don't know what this secret is, but I'm guessing that Matheson has a crush on Gideon. Sure, there's no evidence for this but I'm sure I could whip up a 'shipper video using Sara Bareilles's song "Gravity" and it would work. Anyway, bearded man is tricked into doing something illegal so Matheson gets to stay, then he goes floating out in hyperspace for the lulz.
Also in this episode were giant, horny hyperspace jellyfish. You know, as Excalibur flew past them I couldn't help but think of Tuvok's infamous line from Elogium "It appears we have lost our sex appeal." Little did I know that 15 second later one of those jellyfish would start humping the ship. This episode gets extra points for reading my disturbing mind.
Galen (It's never a good sign when a review starts with his name) wants to go visit some sort of magical well in hyperspace, and even though Captain Gideon is only given the vaguest possible description of what it is, he decides to go because Galen seems like a nice guy and doesn't seem come across as creepy or anything. Galen has been on thin ice for me from the beginning just by being a technomage. Technomages take things that are wondrous and exciting, science and technology, and they try to reduce it to something magical. They're the Apple of the 23rd century. More than any other character, Galen's personality needs to present itself in a likeable way if I am to forgive him for the horrible crime of being a space-magician. Lying to the captain and hijacking the ship are counter-productive to this cause. I know that Galen thinks he's doing the right thing by keeping his promise, but if his plan involves lying to his friend and putting the lives of the crew in danger then he finds to come up with a better plan.
But there is a bigger sin that Galen commits here, one that is unforgivable. He deletes Max's scans of the Well of McGuffin in order to mess with him. What an asshole. I actually like Max, you're not going to win me over by being mean to the people I like, Galen. Why don't you just fly away and never come back, because nobody likes you.
Also in this episode, some creepy bearded guy mind-rapes Matheson. It's a sign of how much I dislike Galen that I only consider this the third worst thing to happen in the episode. Anyway, bearded man find out some secret that Matheson has been keeping and threatens to have him fired. I don't know what this secret is, but I'm guessing that Matheson has a crush on Gideon. Sure, there's no evidence for this but I'm sure I could whip up a 'shipper video using Sara Bareilles's song "Gravity" and it would work. Anyway, bearded man is tricked into doing something illegal so Matheson gets to stay, then he goes floating out in hyperspace for the lulz.
Also in this episode were giant, horny hyperspace jellyfish. You know, as Excalibur flew past them I couldn't help but think of Tuvok's infamous line from Elogium "It appears we have lost our sex appeal." Little did I know that 15 second later one of those jellyfish would start humping the ship. This episode gets extra points for reading my disturbing mind.
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I must say, it's both disturbing and gratifyingly realistic to see that disbanding the Psi Corps and reintegrating the telepaths hasn't magically reversed decades of questionable ethics or the mindset of control. After all, given that "bearded man" ("Mr. Jones") is probably P-12, he's also probably a former Psi Cop. For all we know, five years ago he was hunting down blips and handing them over to be reprogrammed.
I guess all the Earth Alliance could really hope for is "okay, we'll be a bit less obviously facist and won't try to take over the world anymore. In exchange we get to join the military and the boy scouts. Deal?"
Also in this episode were giant, horny hyperspace jellyfish. You know, as Excalibur flew past them I couldn't help but think of Tuvok's infamous line from Elogium "It appears we have lost our sex appeal." Little did I know that 15 second later one of those jellyfish would start humping the ship. This episode gets extra points for reading my disturbing mind.
Between this and Who's My Little pak'ma'ra, Crusade was well on its way to becoming one of the all-time greats in the category of wacky extraterrestrial sex scenes.
Quite. More than that, they're clearly yet another way for JMS to play with fantasy cliches in a space opera setting. This goes back to "Geometry of Shadows", where they're essentially just wizards, with a bit of Tolkein-esque travelling away from the known world. By the time of Call to Arms, they're wizards who bring in the warrior Sheridan, the paladin Tony Todd and the rogue Dureena on a magical LARPing adventure.
I did actually like "Geometry of Shadows", but that's because Michael Ansara really gives a gravitas to Elric, while Galen just always comes off like a smug prick to me.
Likewise. I'd say Max Eilerson is the most interesting character on Crusade.
In their defence, had the show continued the whole techno-mage thing would defiantly have gone somewhere and there was a *big* reveal written into the unfilmed season finale (which I shall not spoil here.) As is B5 tradition there are some out of context hints at this in the existing episodes, but you have to know where to look.
As for Galen himself, there is a reason why he's the way he is and like all the characters, there would have been a back story (hinted at here and elsewhere) and of course a definite character arc. Put it this way, just think what if B5 had stopped mid way into season one, how different and incomplete would your opinion of the main characters (G'Kar & Londo especially) have been at that point.
Oh, and I like Max too. He's very much the Kerr Avon of the group and easily my favourite character after Dureena and Galen.
As for Galen himself, there is a reason why he's the way he is and like all the characters, there would have been a back story (hinted at here and elsewhere) and of course a definite character arc. Put it this way, just think what if B5 had stopped mid way into season one, how different and incomplete would your opinion of the main characters (G'Kar & Londo especially) have been at that point.
Oh, and I like Max too. He's very much the Kerr Avon of the group and easily my favourite character after Dureena and Galen.
Galen was my favorite Crusade character. Peter Woodward can do no wrong in my book.
Londo and G'Kar basically drive all the good stuff in "Midnight on the Firing Line", and are fairly interesting at that early stage in a way Galen never is. Part of it, of course, is that even at this juncture they're presented as dramatic figures who deal in murky political fortunes. I don't know how much to blame Woodward and how much to blame JMS, in fairness, but Galen is Byronically insufferable. JMS can write characters in a certain smug way, and while sometimes a performer can elevate the role (G'Kar in season five could have been much smarmier), some of them ham that element up.
Not spoiling the finale reveal either, but there's nothing in it that salvages the Technomages or Galen for me.
Part of the reason Londo and G'Kar work early on is that even that that juncture they're morally ambiguous and dealing in a messy political situation. Some of JMS's strongest character writing is for characters like that and while Max is no Londo, he's the best shot Crusade has on this front.
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