Kira's command authority regarding the Defiant

[Xerxes1979]

Was Kira always above Dax in command? The eventual structure seemed to be Worf > Kira > Dax.

I am thinking of the episode were fake Bashir is trying to blow up the Bajoran sun and Kira gives a direct order to go to warp.

If she as the proxy of the privsional government had say over what did and did not happen inside Bajoran space why didn't we see more command decisions on the DS9 space station? Did Sisko's dual role as emissary and commander allow him to usurp implied Bajoran authority?

 

[Sandoval]

On the station and presumably the runabouts Kira was only directly answerable to The Sisko. On the Defiant Kira would be subordinate to Worf since Worf was apparently made second-in-command of the ship to keep him sweet.

 

[Xerxes1979]

What about pre-Worf? What was the Eddington, Dax, Kira relationship?

 

[Sandoval]

I'd go with Kira>Eddington>Dax I suppose, although Eddington and Dax were both lieutenant commanders at that point. I'd be more inclined to listen to a security officer than a science geek.

 

[Timo]

Kira would have seniority in rank over Dax anyway, through having spent more time at that rank. No idea whether Kira was senior to Eddington.

I guess Sisko had every incentive to give Kira as high a profile as possible, to show how Starfleet respects the Bajoran ways and how the Bajoran militia respects Starfleet.

The Defiant would only be given to Kira on missions of national importance, though - such as in "Sons of Mogh", to respond to the Klingon blockading attempt. In most situations, Kira would be aboard that vessel basically as a passenger, not as Sisko's right hand and Worf's superior; Worf even spells that out in "Apocalypse Rising", and we have little reason to think that the situation would ever have changed.

"Starship Down" is more or less our only exception-like wrinkle in the pattern. And even there, it's Worf who does important command stuff, while Kira (albeit remaining on the bridge) just holds the wounded Sisko's hand.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Wil has a posse]

Not to threadjack, but this brings up the question of why a science officer like Dax was given such high placement in the hierarchy. I could never undersand why she was entrusted with command of the Defiant in a time of war, given her lack of command and combat experience prior.

As for Kira, we know she confirmed the autodestruct alongside Sisko, which pretty much cements her role as directly below Sisko prior to Worf's arrival, as far as I'm concerned. Once Worf arrived (and upon stating "You may command the station, but I command the Defiant"), I think she moves to 3rd in command below him.

 

[od0_ital]

^

Ya really think eight lifetimes and several years on what became the front lines of the war equals lack of experience?

 

[Wil has a posse]

^

Ya really think eight lifetimes and several years on what became the front lines of the war equesl lack of experience?

Give that none of her previous hosts were Starfleet officers, and most had jobs completely unrelating to commanding a starship in battle, yes.

 

[od0_ital]

As far as command heirarchy goes, on the station, it was simply Sisko-Kira-Worf-Dax and on down the line, 'til eventually Chief O'Brien would be yellin' at a bunch of non-comms.

On the ship, it was Sisko-Worf-Dax and on down the line from there...Kira wasn't part of the command structure unless she was put in charge by Sisko.

Any other situations (runabouts & such) were on a whoever was leadin' the party basis.

 

[od0_ital]

^

Ya really think eight lifetimes and several years on what became the front lines of the war equesl lack of experience?

Give that none of her previous hosts were Starfleet officers, and most had jobs completely unrelating to commanding a starship in battle, yes.

Politicians & ambassadors know how to deal with people, which relates to commandin' people, though.

So, she had that goin' for her, if nothin' else.

And Admiral Ross put Dax in command of the Defiant because she had been workin' with that particular crew for quite some time, and had been doin' so as Sisko's first officer, since Worf was servin' under Martok.

 

[Bob Karo]

Not to threadjack, but this brings up the question of why a science officer like Dax was given such high placement in the hierarchy. I could never undersand why she was entrusted with command of the Defiant in a time of war, given her lack of command and combat experience prior.

It's not unheard of. Let's go ask Spock.

 

[Sandoval]

Not to threadjack, but this brings up the question of why a science officer like Dax was given such high placement in the hierarchy. I could never undersand why she was entrusted with command of the Defiant in a time of war, given her lack of command and combat experience prior.

It's not unheard of. Let's go ask Spock.

And it's Bob Karo for the win.

 

[Gotham Central]

I was always under the impression that Dax held the same place in the hierarchy as Data in that she was in effect second officer. As was shown on both TOS and TNG, being a science/medical officer does not preclude one from being a part of the command structure.

In most situations Worf and Dax are parallel in the command structure except that he is first officer on the Defiant while Dax is second officer both on the station and onboard the ship.

Lets face it, the command structure on DS9 was fairly odd to being with. Technically the Defiant and the Station should have had completely separate crews with the Defiant merely assigned to protect the station and patrol the sector. Its probably why the commanders of most other stations in Trek were either commodores or admirals.

 

[eepruls]

When Worf first joined though, I can recall scenes where Kira is in command of the Defiant and Worf is manning tactical. After a while it switched and Worf would be in command while Kirsir manned a station. Every time I see those scenes in season 4 I always wonder why Kira is in the captain's chair over Worf.

 

[Ln X]

Since Kira was second in command of Defiant, she would be second in command of the Defiant. But since Kira and Worf have similar ranks, then I'd say which one commands the Defiant could be dependent on Sisko's judgement. I mean there would be plenty of times when either Kira or Worf would have to command the Defiant, so that either Kira stayed on the station, or Worf did.

I think it works out like this:

(pre Worf) Sisko>Kira>Eddington>Dax>O'Brien

(with Worf) Sisko>(Kira/Worf)>Eddington>Dax>O'Brien

(when Eddington was gone) Sisko>(Kira/Worf)>Dax>O'Brien

(Dominion war, DS9 occupied) Sisko>Dax>O'Brien (since Worf was on Martok's ship, and Kira was on DS9)

(after capture of DS9) Sisko>(Kira/Worf)>Dax>O'Brien

(from season 7) Sisko>Kira>Worf>O'Brien

And that I think just about covers Kira's command authority with regard to the Defiant.

 

[Timo]

we know she confirmed the autodestruct alongside Sisko, which pretty much cements her role as directly below Sisko prior to Worf's arrival

She even identifies herself as First Officer, and people demanding this sort of access from a starship computer tend to give their identities with respect to the ship's hierarchy (say, our heroes in ST3:TSfS probably aren't even officially Enterprise officers any more, yet Chekov's bid for self-destruct authority is "Acting Science Officer", a title he apparently invented for himself on the spot).

I guess any qualified officer may contribute to a self-destruct order; it doesn't need to be done in a strict order of hierarchy. In all likelihood, it's just set up like a game of poker: if any three officers give the order, it can only be countermanded by the same three, or by another trio whose ranks and positions comprise a "higher hand". That way, Ensigns Huey, Dewey and Louie can't blow up the ship from underneath Picard - and, more relevantly, they can't stop a heroic self-sacrifice ordered by Picard, such as in "Where Silence Has Lease".

This in mind, Kira in "The Adversary" could in theory have been subordinate to the highest-ranking Starfleet officer present - to wit, Dax. But the mission involved a conflict with the Tzenkethi, supposedly neighbors of Bajor since the DS9 team was tasked with this in the first place, and Sisko would probably have wanted to maintain Kira's public status as a prime doer and decider on such a politically important mission, not take it away from her even if Starfleet regulations allowed.

...Enough second-guessing; the above lists look okay to me. Although there are probably a dozen officers between Dax and O'Brien, considering we saw plenty of 'em aboard, and considering we never saw O'Brien take command even when numerous main heroes were absent.

As for Dax' high standing, let's remember that the station didn't have too many officers to begin with. In "Emissary", Dax might be one out of just a dozen, and one of only two Lieutenants. Even after Starfleet replaced Lieutenant Primmin with Lieutenant Commander Eddington, there was a distinct shortage of high-ranking officers on the background, so letting Dax command the Defiant every now and then sounds sensible to me. She'd certainly have fewer stationside commitments than Security Chief Eddington (and never mind that Eddington never appeared to get a high-ranking successor after his defection).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Caesar753]

I'm curious why Kira had command abilities aboard the Defiant. Since she wasn't a Starfleet officer, what was she doing giving orders on the Defiant's bridge? I understand the hierarchy of rank, but I would think her authority would cease once she stepped onto Starfleet property. Was this issue ever addressed in the show?

 

[Timo]

As said, Sisko had every incentive to pretend that Starfleet liked and respected the Bajoran Militia and vice versa. Giving Kira access to runabouts and the like was a natural thing to do; giving her access to the Defiant, another piece of hardware that didn't operate independently of DS9, was just an extension of that, even if Sisko had to wipe his feet on a few Starfleet regulations to achieve it.

What is a bit more difficult to understand is how a specific set of officers is selected for a mission aboard the Defiant. Sisko had trusted lieutenants to burn, and two important assets, the station and the ship, to operate. On many a mission, the presence of Kira aboard the ship seemed superfluous, and her absence from the station inexcusable. And don't get me started on Odo... I guess "The Search" can be chalked off as a last gasp suicide mission where it wouldn't matter whether somebody was left to guard the station. But "The Adversary" is an early example of Defiant missions that make no sense; Kira has no excuse for being there, and while Odo might know a thing or two about Changelings, our heroes already know he cannot do diplomacy with them, nor fight them better than our humanoid heroes, nor detect them better than our humanoid heroes.

Timo Saloniemi