Plot hole city: Part II!

[CorporalCaptain]

In a one gee gravity field, an object initially at rest falls 4 feet in about 0.5 seconds, during which time it accelerates to a speed of about 16 feet per second.

Explanation:

t = time falling

d = (1/2)*a*t^2 = distance fallen

v = a*t = speed (magnitude of velocity) reached

The approximate value for one gee is:
a = 32 feet per second^2

or more accurately:
a = 32.1740 ft/s^2

 

[Gojira]

Just a question of curiosity. With all of these plot holes you see are you able to come up with plausible explanations on your own for any of these?

No, and that's why they're plot holes. The key word your question, though, is "plausible". You can come up with stupid deus-ex-machina explanations for anything in a movie or TV show, but plausible explanations are a little more tricky.

Calling the explanations people come up with "stupid" is biased and subjective. I think people in this thread have come up with plausible explanations. I'm sorry you are not able to come up with them on your own.

If you wanted to come up with plausible explanations I think you could you are intelligent enough.

 

[M'Sharak]

My only nit? I don't think Kirk should have been able to talk to the Enterprise during free fall. Or rather, he can talk, it's just that they shouldn't be able to hear him, unless a mic was strapped directly on his lips and even then, the sound of rushing wind would still do a lot to muffle him out.

What about a throat mic?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

5. It became a parallel universe the second the Narada showed up and started blasting the Kelvin. From that point onwards the timeline branches off from Prime to Alternate.

Well if you want to get technical the universes split when the "lightining storm in space" showed up and diverted the Kelvin from whatever it was doing before that.

 

[Satyrquaze]

^Who says we simply haven't seen the point of divergeance between the prime and mirror universes, far in the past?

So, what was the time travel fiasco that caused everyone to act like assholes in the Mirror Universe?

 

[6079SmithW]

But once again, what makes this instance of time travel different than any other? Why does Braxton have to "correct" the history that Voyager alters by travelling through time, but not Nero? Don't they both create alternate universes/timelines?

When Prime Braxton tried to correct the timeline nuBraxton showed up and said, "Hey! Don't mess with my timeline. Worry about your own!"

Abrams and company wanted to reboot Trek but didn't want to throw the baby out with the bath water so they used time travel, an established plot device of Trek, to create a soft reboot where they can tell the stories of re-imagined characters within a familiar yet alternate universe.

I honestly wish that they had done a hard reboot and scraped everything established by previous Trek as then we wouldn't be having all these pointless arguments that end up going no where.

The only concrete answer to why this time travel story works different from others is that Abrams, Orci, and Kutzman said it works this way for the purpose of their film.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Who says we simply haven't seen the point of divergeance between the prime and mirror universes, far in the past?

So, what was the time travel fiasco that caused everyone to act like assholes in the Mirror Universe?

It doesn't have to be time travel. According to "Parallels" there's a universe for every possible outcome to any event anywhere, ever. So it's just a different outcome to a certain event. The rest is the butterfly effect, changes causing changes causing changes.

Although rendered moot by later canon, the old "Mirror Universe Saga" comic series traced it back to Earth losing the Romulan War and being occupied for several years. Humans rose up and founded the Empire so that they would never ever be subjugated again.

A later novel put it down to a coin toss by Zephram Cochrane - whether or not to tell the Vulcans the truth about visitors from the future and the Borg - which massively altered early human/Vulcan relations.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

So which is it, an alternate universe, or an alternate timeline?

They are one and the same.

No, they are wholly seperate concepts.

They're words put together to describe something that doesn't exist, and they're barely "concepts" worthy of the name. There's no harm in using them interchangeably, as Trek has in fact used them interchangeably all along.

Claiming that they haven't and that the two are "separate concepts" in Trek lore is an error and undercuts your "credibility."

 

[Satyrquaze]

Undercuts my credibilty as what? A fan of Star Trek? Don't be a douche.

I'm sorry you think so, but I don't recall anyone on Star Trek ever referring to the Mirror Universe as an alternate timeline. Similarly, I don't recall anyone on Star Trek referring to the timeline created in "Yesterday's Enterprise" as an alternate universe. Whatever, we agree to disagree

And Treklit imo is at times little more than fanfiction, what is "true" or "factual" for one writer make little matter for the next writer. They might retcon something like that... if it matters enough to them.

 

[Dukhat]

Just a question of curiosity. With all of these plot holes you see are you able to come up with plausible explanations on your own for any of these?

No, and that's why they're plot holes. The key word your question, though, is "plausible". You can come up with stupid deus-ex-machina explanations for anything in a movie or TV show, but plausible explanations are a little more tricky.

Calling the explanations people come up with "stupid" is biased and subjective. I think people in this thread have come up with plausible explanations. I'm sorry you are not able to come up with them on your own.

If you wanted to come up with plausible explanations I think you could you are intelligent enough.

Exactly. All you're doing, William Wallace, is coming up with inane little nitpicks, waiting for people to give you explanations as to why said nitpicks can work just fine, and then coming back and saying "Nope, you're wrong!!!"

So you know what? Screw this. If you think the film was so outrageously inconceivable, fine. But if all you're going to do is ignore the well-though-out answers that multiple people are giving you, then why are you even bothering coming up with all this shit? And why are we bothering to answer you?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^Who says we simply haven't seen the point of divergeance between the prime and mirror universes, far in the past?

So, what was the time travel fiasco that caused everyone to act like assholes in the Mirror Universe?

City on the Edge of Forever

 

[Sharr Khan]

KingDaniel wrote:
^Who says we simply haven't seen the point of divergeance between the prime and mirror universes, far in the past?

I think we did, it was the first meeting between human and Vulcan, it did not go smoothly, and ended with a lot of green blood being spilled. Plus technological plunder...

Though as Mike Sussman explained it, it always has been divergent and that was simply to illustrate that point, history just went on a different course in the Mirror Universe.

Did this thread really need a part two?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

No.

No, and that's why they're plot holes. The key word your question, though, is "plausible". You can come up with stupid deus-ex-machina explanations for anything in a movie or TV show, but plausible explanations are a little more tricky.

Other folks find them entirely plausible - if you don't, it's not necessarily due to the shortcomings of others. Try a little harder.

 

[Broccoli]

^Who says we simply haven't seen the point of divergeance between the prime and mirror universes, far in the past?

So, what was the time travel fiasco that caused everyone to act like assholes in the Mirror Universe?

A future traveler prevented creation of Taco Bell thereby splitting the timeline into two universes with similar yet divergent paths.

Guess which timeline has Taco Bell?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Guess which timeline has Taco Bell?

The one where Rocky is forced to knit?

 

[Saquist]

^Who says we simply haven't seen the point of divergeance between the prime and mirror universes, far in the past?

I've wondered if a penetration from one reality couldn't possibly perhaps be not just have an effect on positive linear progress in time but also have a retro causations.

That would explain at least why Kelvin looks so much more different than the Standard Federation ships at the time.

It looked like a realistic, big budget version of TOS to me.

I mean - does a Gorn really look like a guy in a rubber suit? Does a starship really look like plywood sets with pictures of space phenomena stuck up on the walls? Or are we just seeing a 1960's TV representaton of the 23rd century, which we're now seeing via a big budget movie in the late 2000's?

I could allow for the "upgrade" effect in some instances but in others the effect diverges to radically.

 

[number6]

I don't think Paramount is at all concerned with what you could allow.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, neither are all the fans who are making nuTrek successful.

 

[beamMe]

So which is it, an alternate universe, or an alternate timeline?

They are one and the same.

I don't agree.

So which is it, an alternate universe, or an alternate timeline?

They are one and the same.

No, they are wholly seperate concepts.

Not in Star Trek (the movie and the franchise).

 

[Saquist]

I don't think Paramount is at all concerned with what you could allow.

I didn't ask you what you think.