Plot hole city: Part II!

[Broccoli]

^Strawman argument. You might have addressed something in number6's statement, but it had nothing to do with your claim of a plot hole in addition to not proving your point about the lightening storm. Additionally, number6 never said the Romulan ship was spotted at Vulcan. You brought that up to claim number6 said it, so you can disprove him. You are exactly what you claim number6 is.

More on point: While his wording might be somewhat awkward, number6 is correct. The massive Romulan ship appeared with the lightening storm in space at the beginning of the film. Later on, in the sequence being discussed, the lightening storm again appeared. Kirk heard that a lightening storm was appearing and immediately connected it to the Kelvin incident. The fact that it took place near the Klingon Neutral Zone isn't important. They could have said it took place at Koko-Land of Chocolate Bunnies, and it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[number6]

Nope. The Neutral Zone isn't part of the "trigger" at all. The trigger was the lighnings storm in space accompanied by the presence of a massive Romulan ship. The Neutral Zone, Romulan or otherwise isn't a even remotely part of this equation.

So once again you are rewriting the movie to prove your flimsy premise.

Number6 False Statement:

accompanied by the presence of a massive Romulan ship.

A Massive Romulan ship was never reported at Vulcan.
Once again you are imagining the facts to prove your fandom valid through the film. Feel free to try again.

Nope.. The presence of the Massive Romulan ship was part of the report of the Klingon attack hours prior to the report of lightning storm, which leads Kirk's hunch that Vulcan is under attack by Romulans. This was part of the discussion on the bridge. You weren't paying attention and are once again making up your own facts to prove your faulty premise.

Once again you are wrong.

Try again, but maybe next time get your facts right and try a little humility, if you are able.

 

[number6]

^Strawman argument. You might have addressed something in number6's statement, but it had nothing to do with your claim of a plot hole in addition to not proving your point about the lightening storm.

It was also established in the first five minutes of this film that this lightning storm in space wasn't just some routine anomaly.

While the Kelvin attack is certainly established as being right on the edge of Klingon space, there is no mention of the Neutral Zone as I can recall, though I would be curious to see the Koko-Land of Chocolate Bunnies.. I always wondered where those yummy little buggers came from.

Additionally, number6 never said the Romulan ship was spotted at Vulcan. You brought that up to claim number6 said it, so you can disprove him. You are exactly what you claim number6 is.

Once again those pesky facts are getting in the way of yet another good rant.

 

[Broccoli]

Yep. I just did a recheck of a transcript. That scene is pretty point-by-point.

--Uhura talks about a Klingon battle in her dorm that Kirk overhears.
--The following day, Chekov talks about a lightening storm in space over the intercom. He then mentions seismic activity on Vulcan. The implication being that these two things are somewhat connected.
--Kirk overhears this and starts to put things together from the Kelvin incident.
--Kirk races to Uhura who confirms that the Klingons were attacked by a Romulan ship. Clearly, Kirk finds it too much of a coincidence.
--Kirk races to the bridge to claim that they are likely running into a Romulan trap (of course, at that point, they don't know it was Nero, as opposed to "official" Romulan forces)
--Scotty then compares the Enterprise's nacelles to boobs.

The only thing that seems to be at odds is that Vulcan is apparently close to the Neutral Zone (somewhat implied since the characters believe the lightening storm and Vulcan's seismic activity are connected). However, this is really only at odds if you continue to rely on "what came before" instead of looking at the film as a reboot (which, lets face it, fan service or not, it is). Then again, Enterprise established that Earth and Qo'nos is only 5 days away at a low warp and Earth and Vulcan are, galatically speaking, next door neighbors. So maybe Vulcan was near the Neutral Zone in the "prime" universe.

 

[number6]

There's still no mention of The Neutral Zone, and there was never any onscreen mention of how far Vulcan is from Klingon territory.. We also don't know the speed of the Narada.

Scotty definitely wanted to get his hands on the Enterprise's ample nacelles. Doesn't that constitute sexual harassment?? I hope the Enterprise doesn't file a restraining order against Scotty, otherwise he'll have to go back to diddling Keenser.

 

[M'Sharak]

Thread's getting too personal again. Closing, for the time being.

Oh, and before I go - Saquist, I don't think this sort of thing really helps your argument at all:

[...]

Shooting down the irrational is good practice for my debate class.

[...]

Red Herring.
Strawman
Evasive

[...]

...

Number6 False Statement:

...

You're not in debate class, remember?

This is a discussion board, and your continuing habit of calling out a running tally of supposed logic errors and fallacies—in bold, no less, as if you're conducting an examination and making a show of marking students' missed points on the chalkboard for all to see—is one which nearly always comes across as haughty, condescending and even insulting. That's been pointed out to you on a number of occasions previously, and it's a tone I'm really getting tired of seeing, because ultimately it has the effect of dragging the quality of the whole discussion downward until it's nothing more than "gotcha" answered by "gotcha" countered by "gotcha". Really tedious stuff - I don't think the "debate" has actually gone anywhere but around and around in circles for many pages.

Regardless of whether or not this thread gets re-opened, I'd like—from here forward—to see you, Saquist, refrain from talking down to people and instead make a real effort at conversing with them as if you are no more special than they; you'll be able to see for yourself whether that encourages a change in the way people respond to you.

Now everybody take five.