I'll just quote Michael A. Martin again... I didn't do it in THIS thread too already, did I?
What was wrong with "These are the Voyages"
- Thread starter You_Will_Fail
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Connor Trinneer did not mind getting killed off in the episode. If it is ok with him it is ok with me.
Ack. I tried. I still hate TATV no matter what Connor says.
I'm with you. Who cares that he liked it. You know whose opinion I'd like to hear? Ariana's.
I suspect that at this point, the eternal spite is more about defending ENT as a series than actively disliking TATV.
The conversation goes something like this:
Average Trekker: On the whole, Enterprise was a mostly-lame failure.
Die-hard Enterpriser: Argh! TATV might have had TNG characters, but it was horrible! In fact, the TNG characters is what made it horrible!
Average Trekker: I love me some Troi and Riker, but yeah... it wasn't that great. Didn't really fit in with "Pegasus", either.
Die-hard Enterpriser: Yes! We agree! Enterprise was fantastic, right up until TATV!
Average Trekker: Er, wait...
It's a classic move when one doesn't really want to address the subject: one changes topic of conversation.
It doesn't.
Most average fans I know (myself included) back home hated TATV.
Check the reviews on TV.com. Most users there aren't Trekkies at all, and they still trashed TATV.
Let me fix that for ya....
Average Trekker: Enterprise was an absolute abomination of biblical proportions!
ENT Fan: Well, TATV was god-awful, but the rest of the show had it's ups and downs like any of the others.
Average Trekker: Yes! We agree! All of Enterprise was vile, putrid shit, just like its finale!
ENT Fan: Er, wait, I didn't say that. I said TATV was awful but that the rest of the show had its high points. Like how they....
Average Trekker: LA-LA-LA-LA-LA! I'M NOT LISTENING! LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!
Let me fix that for ya....
Average Trekker: Enterprise was an absolute abomination of biblical proportions!
ENT Fan: Well, TATV was god-awful, but the rest of the show had it's ups and downs like any of the others.
Average Trekker: Yes! We agree! All of Enterprise was vile, putrid shit, just like its finale!
ENT Fan: Er, wait, I didn't say that. I said TATV was awful but that the rest of the show had its high points. Like how they....
Average Trekker: LA-LA-LA-LA-LA! I'M NOT LISTENING! LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!
Let me fix that for you.
*CMFTHTHETW: Enterprise was an absolute abomination of biblical proportions!
Average Trekker: Like TNG it took a couple seasons to start rolling. But TATV was awful.
Enterprise Fan: Would you two shut up! You made me miss Mayweather's only line.
CMFTHTHETW: Yes! We agree! All of Enterprise was vile, putrid shit, just like its finale!
Average Trekker: Er, wait, I didn't say that. TATV was awful but that the rest of the show had its high points. Like how they....
Enterprise Fan: Look. Trip is kissing T'Pol.
CMFTHTHETW: LA-LA-LA-LA-LA! I'M NOT LISTENING! LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!
Enterprise Fan: Poor Archer. He is getting beat up again.
*CMFTHTHETW = Closed Minded Fanatic That Has To Have Everything Their Way.
I disagree. I love Enterprise and I feel no obligation to explain myself or apologize to those who don't. I hate "This Ain't the Valentine" because after "All Good Things," "What You Leave Behind" and even "Endgame" such as it was, I had higher expectations for what was likely to be the last episode of Star Trek for quite a while.
The lines "all good things" and "here's to the next generation" said it all. This wasn't about Enterprise ending. It wasn't about giving the franchise a rest. It was about B&B's golden years with TNG.
And I really think one does not need to be a genius to see that.
Nah, it's a bye week.
They could've easily made it Troi and Riker on the Titan heading to Romulus post-Nemesis and tied it into that. Why not use the Voyager holodeck and bridge from the Prometheus or Voyager (or whatever they could use that wouldn't be too costly) and do it that way? Instead they used sets that didn't look right, optical effects, and actors that were visibly older.
Because the whole idea was to pay tribute to the Enterprises from all three shows that starred one, hence the title. Setting it on the Titan wouldn't have made sense, in that regard. That's why I like my idea; the episode becomes about the Enterprise itself and what it means to be captain.
Well, the easy way to fix that would have been having Riker as captain of the Enterprise-F, post-Titan. He could even have had a little desktop model of Sean Torangeau's Titan in his ready room, a la Picard's Stargazer. Set the framing episode in, say, 2395 (the year that the future segment of "All Good Things.." took place, only now in the correct timeline), and have the Enterprise be on hand for a peace treaty with Romulus or something like that (this is of course years before Star Trek '09). They could have even reused the future Starfleet uniforms yet again in a Trek series finale...hell, they could have even given the new Enterprise three nacelles!
I know, it's not the same as having the Enterprise-D, but it would have been better, 'cause we'd have seen one more Enterprise, even if we never saw it again (and if the writers had a bit more foresight, they would have made the Enterprise-J from "Azati Prime" the Enterprise-F, just for this very tie-in).
I like to think of the Enterprise-D in TATV, as one of those subtly different, alternate universe ones seen filling the sector in "Parallels".
Which is ironic given the episode those Riker/Troi scenes are supposed to fit into, "The Pegasus" came immediately after.
Apart from evidence of Data and Picard, there's probably something different we never get time to appreicate... like Tom Riker stayed onboard after "Second Chances" or Tasha Yar never died. Maybe Trip's death in the past, or the Temporal Cold War, is enough to warrant that whole TNG framework being "a little off".
Actually that first idea might explain why Frakes is in that opening Ten Forward shot twice... he's standing in the crowd over by the window too, isn't he? I haven't checked lately but my memory is that the camera pans toward Patrick Stewart's back and he's there. They managed to superimpose Troi over the Troi seated at a table, in that footage*. Not sure about Riker though. He's supposedly already sitting opposite her.
Which is ironic given the episode those Riker/Troi scenes are supposed to fit into, "The Pegasus" came immediately after.
Apart from evidence of Data and Picard, there's probably something different we never get time to appreicate... like Tom Riker stayed onboard after "Second Chances" or Tasha Yar never died. Maybe Trip's death in the past, or the Temporal Cold War, is enough to warrant that whole TNG framework being "a little off".
Actually that first idea might explain why Frakes is in that opening Ten Forward shot twice... he's standing in the crowd over by the window too, isn't he? I haven't checked lately but my memory is that the camera pans toward Patrick Stewart's back and he's there. They managed to superimpose Troi over the Troi seated at a table, in that footage*. Not sure about Riker though. He's supposedly already sitting opposite her.
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I thought I saw Picard and two Trois as well! The kids and I watched it yesterday as we wrapped up a run through the series. Their comments:
"Riker is so fat and old-looking!"
"Troi looks about 70 with that bad face-lift and she's kinda flabby!"
"Their voices don't sound right at all."
"No! Trip's not dead, this is obviously one of those malfunctioning holodeck programs!"
"Where's Archer's speech? All this build up and we don't hear it!"
"This makes no sense: was all of ENT one big holodeck program?"
They both said:
"Terra Prime was the end of the series! I never want to see this again!
"This is my favorite ST series except for TOS!"
From out of the mouths of babes (10, 12)!
"Riker is so fat and old-looking!"
"Troi looks about 70 with that bad face-lift and she's kinda flabby!"
"Their voices don't sound right at all."
"No! Trip's not dead, this is obviously one of those malfunctioning holodeck programs!"
"Where's Archer's speech? All this build up and we don't hear it!"
"This makes no sense: was all of ENT one big holodeck program?"
They both said:
"Terra Prime was the end of the series! I never want to see this again!
"This is my favorite ST series except for TOS!"
From out of the mouths of babes (10, 12)!
Yep. There's your rub. That's the one which stung the most if you were really into ENT. I kept reading that online for months and years after the episode happened. Some who had hadn't even seen it, but knocked ENT as one long list of canon violations anyhow, latched onto that idea and milked the possibility for all its worth. So much so, they still don't particularly want to rationalise the show in any other way. Or have it referred to by any "future" Star Trek incarnation. The Admiral Archer's prized beagle jibe in the 2009 movie, allowed to slide since it was basically that. A knock at Enterprise's expense. Even delivered by a comedian, renowned for disliking prequels.
My newly found cynical nature tells me, "These are the Voyages..." was more like Berman's revenge than any sort of valentine. A parting blow against the vocal dislike of the show he'd been reading online - maybe not stopping to think, most accepted it fine but didn't exactly need to gush about it. Nor was it exactly a good idea, given the climate online at places like Star Trek.com, where an elite few ruled the boards.
Anyhow enough of my bitterness. No sense in decending to that level. It only adds another to their number and whatever they've moved onto tearing apart these days.
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