Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

[Admiral Shran]

It always cracks me up when child actors are able to totally nail their performances, even when they involve spouting technobabble, when adult actors just look confused or bored. I call this the Pomers/Beltran effect.

So true.

Shadowplay has some things going for it, some against it. The Odo/Dax storyline is pretty good. The Jake/O'Brien one is average (though I like how they decided not to take the Wesley Crusher "I must join Starfleet" approach with Jake). The Kira/Quark one is unforgettable.

The best thing it's got in it's favor is the third mention of the Dominion - letting us know that they're not just an economic and military power, but a group that has no problems with wiping out whole civilizations.

It amazes me though that this one episode does a better, quicker job of summing up the whole "holographic rights" issue than all the episodes of VOY that focused on it. "Maybe she's not real by our definition, but who's to say our's is the correct one?" Perfect, no need to dwell on it anymore.

Playing God - another one I'm not too fond of. It's not bad, but not good either. I probably don't enjoy this one because it's a Dax-centric episode, and Jadzia is my least favorite of the main cast.

 

[Athena28]

Trying to guess the content of episodes from their titles, I've found out, is pure...

"Shadowplay"

I thought this was going to be a political/psychological thriller with Garak. I told my wife that if Garak was in the opening shot, it'd all be good...

Didn't ST: Enterprise do a similar ep. even starring Rene Auberjonois?

 

[HaventGotALife]

Trying to guess the content of episodes from their titles, I've found out, is pure...

"Shadowplay"

I thought this was going to be a political/psychological thriller with Garak. I told my wife that if Garak was in the opening shot, it'd all be good...

Didn't ST: Enterprise do a similar ep. even starring Rene Auberjonois?

One of the worst episodes they did, in my opinion. Oasis.

 

[TheGodBen]

Didn't ST: Enterprise do a similar ep. even starring Rene Auberjonois?

Indeed they did, but at least they were nice enough to credit Robert Hewitt Wolfe.

 

[Canadave]

I have to amend my previous statement to "two mediocre episodes." I forgot that "Playing God" was in there.

 

[Shatnertage]

Yikes!

I'm guessing that "Profit and Loss" is a Ferengi episode, and therefore a comedy episode, so that'll get a pass. "Blood Oath" sounds like a Klingon episode. "The Maquis" is about, I guess, the Maquis. After that, I've got no idea, though I'm guessing we won't be seeing Bunk and McNulty on "The Wire."

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Actually, the subject matter of "Profit and Loss" is heavier than you might expect.

 

[TheGodBen]

I'm guessing that "Profit and Loss" is a Ferengi episode, and therefore a comedy episode, so that'll get a pass. "Blood Oath" sounds like a Klingon episode. "The Maquis" is about, I guess, the Maquis.

You're getting better at guessing the titles.

After that, I've got no idea, though I'm guessing we won't be seeing Bunk and McNulty on "The Wire."

Ah, my favourite scene from DS9:

Odo: Fuck.
Sisko: Fuck.
Odo: Oh Fuck.
Sisko: Motherfuck!
Odo: Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.
Sisko: Oh fuck.
Odo: Fuckin' A.
Sisko: Motherfucker.
Odo: Fuck me.

At least, it would have been my favourite scene had Rick Berman not demanded it cut! Thanks a lot, Rick!

 

[Kegg]

Ah yes, The Wire. Endlessly quotable:

It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you.

The King stay the King.

None of them were older than fourteen years old. They knew nothing. They lived in bombed-out rooms, scrounged for food on the streets. They were filthy and they stank.

...wait....

 

[3chordboy]

Actually, the subject matter of "Profit and Loss" is heavier than you might expect.

yup... and the tail end of season 2 in general is very strong. lots of seeds sewn and some great character development too.


i'm just about to finish season 4, having started my re-watching 2nd week of July. someone can do the maths on how many episodes on average a night i'm doing (although i did season 3 in just over a day!! )...but by this point in my viewing a few of the things mentioned in season 2 have become plot threads and/ or been resolved.

such a great show... i hope you're enjoying it as much as i am

 

[Admiral Shran]

Didn't ST: Enterprise do a similar ep. even starring Rene Auberjonois?

One of the worst episodes they did, in my opinion. Oasis.

To be fair, ENT did a lot worse episodes, and I'm a fan of ENT.

 

[Shatnertage]

Busy morning, so I probably won't be able to give this episode what it deserves, but I guess that's part of my daily...

"Profit and Loss"

As a kid, there were certain things I liked about Star Trek: the spaceships, the aliens, the costumes. As an adult, I've found I appreciate Trek's adaptability a lot more--you can meld it with just about any genre. And I always get a kick out of seeing what "inspired" some of the stories--like Alec Guinness and Kwai in "Paradise."

Well, it didn't take too long to figure out that "Profit and Loss" was deeply inspired by Casablanca. And you know what? It works because of the strong acting from Armin Shimerman and Andrew Robinson. The idea of Quark as a leading man is, on the face of it, laughable, but Shimerman made me believe it.

So does Quark have the longest history on DS9 out of everyone? How about Garak? They don't seem very well acquainted here, but you never know with Garak.

Speaking of which, the scene where Garak gives Quark a primer on fashion was, simply speaking, unbelievable. Just incredibly great. Garak's a great character, and I love the way Andrew Robinson plays him. That scene was another case of forgetting that it's two guys in goofy alien makeup and just being completely drawn in by what they were doing. Great acting.

Some of the dialog is a little clunky (I'd say this one could have used another revision), but overall this was one of the strongest and best episodes I've seen in a while. Not coincidentally, they're actually on the station and are using its history as part of the story.

Once I was into the story, I knew the final shot was going to be Quark and someone walking off into the distance together, with Natima and her students safely flying away. I thought it would be Odo. Turns out it was Garak.

I really can't say enough about how much I liked this one.

Well, gotta grade some papers and crunch some Nevada gaming win numbers.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I'm pretty sure Quark has been on the station longer than anybody. He, Odo and Garak were all there at some point during the Occupation, but I believe Quark was there first.

A good episode here, above average certainly, but then an episode with Garak rarely fails to deliver. IMO, you have just one more dip until you're in the home stretch for the season.

 

[Canadave]

I'm pretty sure Quark has been on the station longer than anybody. He, Odo and Garak were all there at some point during the Occupation, but I believe Quark was there first.

Yup. "Necessary Evil" confirms this, as we see Odo meet Quark for the first time, who already seems to be well-established on the Promenade. It seems he was on the station for at least four or five years prior to the end of the Occupation.

As for "Profit and Loss," I don't mind it, but I find that the romance between Quark and the Cardassian just didn't work, for me. Armin Shimmerman is great, and so is the guest, but they just never click for me. It's redeemed by Garak being awesome, of course, though I can help but think how unusual it is that Garak vaporizes a Cardassian Gul on the station with absolutely no consequences.

And for my money, you're officially through the last of season two's poor-to-mediocre episodes. Everything else from here on out ranges from very good to fantastic.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I can't remember, but is it ever confirmed when Garak first came to the station?

 

[Canadave]

^ Not really. "The Wire" is the closest we get, I think, which would put it at just days before the end of the Occupation.

 

[Shatnertage]

When I signed up for Trek BBS, I just had to fill out a page of questions. Luckily, I didn't have to take a...

"Blood Oath"

This was a good one. There were two things going on here: the nostalgia of having 3 TOS guest actors, and Dax getting the kind of focus she hasn't before. Both of them work. Even though the story itself--standard ATeamTrek--kind of falls apart if you look at it too much, it's a very good episode.

Strong performances all around. Midway through the episode, I was sure that Kor wasn't going to make it back. Then it turns out he's the only Klingon who survives the showdown. Nice misdirection.

Kor was my favorite Klingon, by the way. I don't remember which episode each of them was on, but I recognized their names, so I guess that should count for something.

Nice to see Dax get something that highlights her character's unique past.

I'm also glad they didn't do the fanwanky thing and have each of the Klingons deliver a soliloquy about the dastardly deeds of Captain Kirk.

They took the easy way out by letting Dax keep her oath, but not having her have to decide if she was going to kill the Albino.

Overall, though, it was a good episode. I'll put seeing Kor again on my DS9 wishlist.

 

[Eyes]

IIRC, not that I've watched TOS (yes, yes), I think Kor was from 'Errand Of Mercy', Koloth from 'Trouble With Tribbles' and Kang from 'Day Of The Dove'.

Kor was the first one, though, and think I recall seeing that he should have been in Day of The Dove, but they couldn't get the actor for that episode. I do like the character on DS9, he sort of gives the impression of being a late middle-aged/elderly veteran who's still wonderfully laid-back. Kang and Koloth came across as a bit.. well.. up themselves here.

This is a very good one, in part because of the action, and in part because of the Klingons (about the only time I'm going to say that, because I think this is the best Klingon episode on DS9).

 

[Harvey]

IIRC, not that I've watched TOS (yes, yes), I think Kor was from 'Errand Of Mercy', Koloth from 'Trouble With Tribbles' and Kang from 'Day Of The Dove'.

Correct. Interestingly enough, the writers kept wanting to bring back John Colicos as Kor whenever there was a Klingon on the show (not only did they want him for "Day of the Dove," but they also wanted him for "The Trouble with Tribbles," and the character even shows up in Don Ingalls first story outline of "A Private Little War"), but could never make it work during the original Star Trek.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Blood Oath - not one of my favorites, but not bad either.

Kor and Kang really help it out. Koloth just falls flat. William Campbell himself said that he wasn't too pleased with his performance and wished he could do it over.

But again, it's a Dax episode. That equals a "no thanks" from me, especially here where it marks a real turning point in her character. IMO, she was bad enough before as a self-righteous, full-of-herself, aloof "wise old man." From here on, it's almost as if the Curzon personality takes her over and she becomes an even more self-righteous, full-of-herself party girl.

And given the fact that she willingly went on a quest to kill a man in cold blood, something she does it a later episode really grates on me. But, I'll save that until that episode rolls around.