Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

[MacLeod]

Still think once DSN found it's footing, it maintained the best consistence in terms of quality of story telling of all the Treks. Yes it had it's weaker episodes and perhaps it dropped off a bit in S7 but overall it didn't fluctuate that much.

Unlike VOY which seemed to have a run of average (at best) episodes with the occasionly Good or great episode thrown in. If i had to sum voyager up in one word it would be lacklustre. Don't get me wrong as I said it had it's moments but to me they were to few. But each to their own.

TNG Hit it's stride very similarly to DSN in S3, however by S7 there was a marked drop off in quality.

ENT Season 1 started off ok, S2 was a bit of a let down S3 showed a marked improvement but by that time I think the writting was on the wall, which is a shame because S4 has to be one if it's strogest. Perhaps that's because it started to tell the story a lot of fans expected. i.e. Federation building

and last but not least TOS, S1-2 where very strong, and S3 showed a few flashes of that strength however S3 was poor in comparission to what came before, but it seemed as if NMBC wnated to kill the show with the death-slot and budget cuts.

O

 

[Shatnertage]

Well, I'm back with an episode that apparently has few...

"Rivals"

I'd describe this one as a fun mess. The whole underlying quantum physics idea that the purple magic 8 ball can control luck doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's no more nonsensical than holodecks or transporters, so I can buy it as a plot device.

And it's got Prince freaking Humperdinck! Who, when we first meet him, is wearing a shirt that artfully frames his penis. How can you not like that?

The Bashir/O'Brien stuff is great, even if it comes with a side dish of Keiko. I really like how Bashir can go from arrogant and overbearing to, well, bashful so well. And he really works well with O'Brien.

And the Trek geek in my squees a little at what I think is a reference to Strangers in the Sky, when Bashir talks about the endurance of the Vulcan he faced in the racquetball championship. SitS is one of about 6 Trek novels I've read, so maybe I'm reaching there.

Also a reference to Guinan, who MA says was originally supposed to be on the episode. I guess all El-Aurians are great listeners.

I really liked Quark in this one, too. And it's a great one for the "Sisko is a dick" file, as Sisko totally fails to protect Quark's monopoly, which he paid for.

My wife said the alien that gave Humperdinck the Magic Purple 8 Ball looked like a sick old cat. Then he died.

I just really got a kick out of this one. I'm glad they didn't play it too seriously. Even though it's still kind of a mess (you can tell it's got some good Joe Menosky "high concept" material in there that just doesn't come together), it's a lot of fun.

I'll take this over "Second Sight" any day.

 

[Canadave]

^ I like Rivals mostly for the Bashir\O'Brien story, as those two are always fantastic together. The science-fiction-y part of the plot is just all over the place, though.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Ah, Rivals - the first appearance of O'Brien's moobs.

And it's got Prince freaking Humperdinck! Who, when we first meet him, is wearing a shirt that artfully frames his penis. How can you not like that?

As Zek would say - "INCONCEIVABLE!"


But yeah, again, not one of my favorites. The O'Brien/Bashir stuff is good, but the "sci-fi" just seems out of place - it could have worked on TNG or VOY, but not here.

 

[Shatnertage]

I could have watched the Project Runway casting special, but instead I went with...

"The Alternate"

So Quark's selling little bits of Plegg, huh? They should have had the dialog go like this:

QUARK: C'mon, get your dessicated pieces of Plegg. Three strips of latinum a piece.

PASSING DABO GIRL: Who's Plegg?

QUARK: (pauses a beat): Plegg's dead, baby. Plegg's dead.

Actually, Plegg isn't dead, which doesn't figure into the plot at all.

But we do get to see the guy who played Admiral Jarok, whose voice I immediately recognize, so that means I'm going to like this one.

I like that Mora isn't perfect, but isn't evil, either. He's just a smart, ambitious man who allowed himself to be blinded (a bit) by his work with Odo. Not a bad guy, but not terribly considerate, either. He's like the guy who went Major Kong into the sun a few episodes back, with the volume turned down to about 3.

Avery Brooks get to do some domestic stuff with Jake, which is at least something to make his character stand out.

The Mora/Odo stuff is good, but when we learn that the monster...gasp...is really Odo, I completely lose interest. I actually had to check MA to make sure I didn't miss anything in act 5, because Odo just gets miraculously cured. I thought that there was going to be a twist, that Mora had deliberately infected him with something so he could take him back to the lab, but no. At least I don't think so.

And I recall having seen Sisko's dad in an episode (I remember them hanging out in his restaurant or something), so what's the deal with him saying he died? I know it's not canon that he died because he didn't actually "he died," but when someone gets sicker and sicker and there's nothing you can do, that usually means one thing.

It's like that episode of The Office where a distraught Michael says, "The doctors did everything they could...and she's going to be OK."

This is another one that doesn't quite come together. It wasn't awful, though, mostly because of James Sloyan.

 

[Eyes]

On the DVDs I have, I'm not sure if it's the same for all of them, Second Sight, Sanctuary, Rivals and The Alternate were all on the same disc. Probably the lowest quality disc in the series.

The first one is boring, the second is boring and terrible, and the last two are both episodic messes.

The Alternate in particular because I don't remember if there was any reason for Odo to suddenly have become the monster without making it a standard sci-fi plot.

The bit about Sisko's father is an official continuity error, Shatnertage. Just ignore it. They hadn't figured out what they wanted to do with Sisko's family at this point, and when they did, they decided not to make one throwaway line stop them.
It does make that conversation lose any punch it had in retrospect, though.

 

[MacLeod]

Still next up is what could be considered the start of the

Spoiler: .....

the annual O'Brien, must suffer episodes

 

[Admiral Shran]

^ Actually, I'd say the next three fit that category somehow.

Going back to Rivals, I forgot to mention - Guinan was indeed originally planned to appear in that episode. In fact, Martus was supposed to be her son (who she was disappointed in because he wasn't all that great a listener). For whatever reason, Whoopi Goldberg couldn't do the episode, so her character was cut, as well all references to Martus' parentage. All that remained of that little subplot was the name-dropping of the El Aurian race (which was the first time the race was given a name) (we wouldn't find out that Guinan was El Aurian until Generations).

As for The Alternate - it's just another forgettable average episode.

Though, I will say that I often rationalize the continuity error with Sisko's dad by believing that he was talking about his dying grandfather.

Another continuity error that bugs me more about this one is that Mora says "Dear God, what have I done?!" at the end of the episode. Shouldn't he have said "By the Prophets, what have I done?!" It just bugs me.

 

[MacLeod]

^I agree, esp with the next two

 

[Athena28]

...
Going back to Rivals, I forgot to mention - Guinan was indeed originally planned to appear in that episode. In fact, Martus was supposed to be her son (who she was disappointed in because he wasn't all that great a listener). For whatever reason, Whoopi Goldberg couldn't do the episode, so her character was cut, as well all references to Martus' parentage. All that remained of that little subplot was the name-dropping of the El Aurian race (which was the first time the race was given a name) (we wouldn't find out that Guinan was El Aurian until Generations)...

No idea about that. I do recall Guinan discussing her difficult relationship with her child -- so that could've been interesting. I wish Whoopi could've fit it into her schedule.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Another continuity error that bugs me more about this one is that Mora says "Dear God, what have I done?!" at the end of the episode. Shouldn't he have said "By the Prophets, what have I done?!" It just bugs me.

LOL, SO true. I always find myself having to watch out for things like that when I write Bajoran characters, or religious Cardassians. That kind of error throws you right out of the story.

 

[Admiral Shran]

One good thing about The Alternate is that it gives some insight into Odo's backstory with Mora, which was good in that it pays off in a later episode.

 

[3chordboy]

On the DVDs I have, I'm not sure if it's the same for all of them, Second Sight, Sanctuary, Rivals and The Alternate were all on the same disc. Probably the lowest quality disc in the series.

hehe, i noticed that during my re-watch. i opened the box and thought "ooooh, the next 3 hours are going to be hard work!!"

 

[Shatnertage]

Well, even though I'm now halfway through season 2, I'm not out of the woods yet. At least I now know that, no matter how much I want to play a game, I should never, ever play the...

"Armageddon Game"

Before playing this, we play Season 2 Disc 4 Bingo, trying to figure out which episodes will be good. Here's what I came up with:

Armageddon Game: Could be good, like something along the lines of "Balance of Terror" with the Cardassians and Feds playing with fire, but could be like that episode where Quark was gambling with the lives of the crew. Probably won't be good.

Whispers: Sounds like a Voyager episode, but it would make a great name for a gay bar.

Paradise: Again, sounds like a Voyager episode, and not a good one.

Shadowplay: This sounds like the best of the bunch--I'm guessing some kind of psychological thriller, maybe with Garak.

Right now, we've got "Armageddon Game," and a truly tedious tease that just about puts me to sleep. The T'Lani and the Kelleruns, blah blah blah, some kind of genetic weapon, blah blah blah, turn over the destruction of it to a station medic and the guy who, up until last year, ran the Enterprise's transporters. Makes perfect sense to me that they wouldn't get a delegation of Federation scientists or doctors who specifically work in that area.

Actually, it doesn't.

This one suffers from a bad, bad case of TNG-itis. I can totally see LaForge and Crusher (well, maybe Pulaski) doing this one with very few changes. And it always bugs me on some level when the Starfleeters know more about alien tech than the aliens who built it.

There are two definite lowlights of this one for me: Avery Brooks' performance is the first one. He's positively lethargic here, particularly in the scenes where the crew watches the video of O'Brien and Bashir's "death" and in a scene that I was dreading, him having to break the news to Keiko. Ugh. When he's talking very slowly to the crew he just seems on the verge of falling asleep. I'm seriously wondering if someone slipped him Valium or something. I appreciate that every actor isn't going attack their scenes with Shatner-level histrionics, but I'm surprised the director didn't ask him to increase the energy level a bit. Granted, it was a lousy episode before, but this just blows any credibility it has.

The lowlight is Bashir and O'Brien talking about how Bashier was totally going to get laid at the party, while the best O'Brien could hope for was "a good meal." That one was about as painful as a stretch of "romantic" dialog written by George Lucas.

Then the episode crosses the line into actual humor, with the Kira/Dax/Quark scene. I laughed so hard I was warned about waking the baby. I just totally lost it when Dax talks about how Julian gave her his diaries, containing all of his hopes, dreams, and insecurities, and she didn't read them. It's just the way she says it. And then Kira tells her to keep them! At first I thought this was just really bad writing, but then Quark shows up and gives his "good customers" eulogy, and I realize that it's supposed to be funny. Brilliant.

Shackled with a plot that doesn't make much sense (if they want to kill everyone, why don't they just phaser the station instead of sending two guys with guns? Or cut life support? Or deorbit it?) and some of the most questionable acting I've seen in DS9 yet, "Armageddon Game" might be the worst DS9 episode I've seen so far.

 

[Admiral Shran]

You should start rating each episode.

And I also thought that the O'Brien/Bashir "good meal" dialogue was awful. Given Bashir's track record with women thus far, his "night of adventure" would probably have amounted to reading the latest medical journal and then later lying his ass off about what he did. O'Brien could have justifiably said "Well, at least I'll actually be having sex once we're back on the station."

 

[JayOwl]

Strange.. I really enjoyed most of Armageddon Game, but I suppose different people like different things.

I can tell you, that I think you'll really like "Whispers", because IMHO it's an excellent episode, but I'll let you judge it for yourself .

 

[Shatnertage]

^ My wife thinks it's either going to about rumors spreading around the station or ghosts. I hope she's wrong.

 

[TheGodBen]

It's about rumours of ghosts. Sexy ghosts. That are also aliens. Also, Scottish stereotypes are involved.

I may be thinking of a different episode.

 

[Canadave]

It's about rumours of ghosts. Sexy ghosts. That are also aliens. Also, Scottish stereotypes are involved.

Avery Brook's Scottish accent is pretty embarrassing, I have to say.

While I'm surprised you didn't like "Armageddon Game" (it's a "good but not great" for me), you should really like "Whispers." It's one of my favourites from the season.

 

[Eyes]

I always thought Armageddon Game was one of the more passable episodes. Nothing really stands out from it for me, but it's a step up from The Storyteller/Rivals in terms of developing O'Brien/Bashir.

I do like your predictions of the discs. That's quite nice to read (with the knowledge of what happens in those episodes) .