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Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

I must admit, Armageddon Game used to be one of my least favourite episodes of the whole show, and I only found it notable as I considered it an important point for the O'Brien/Bashir relationship. But when I watched it again on DVD I realised that it wasn't as bad as I remembered. It's pretty average with some nice moments to balance out the bad ones.
 
It's about rumours of ghosts. Sexy ghosts. That are also aliens. Also, Scottish stereotypes are involved.

I may be thinking of a different episode. :confused:

Let's see, you're either talking about TNG: Schisms, B5: Day of the Dead, TNG: Sub Rosa or The Wrath of Khan.

I'm thoroughly confused.
 
"Sub Rosa" rocks. "It just rolled in" is what makes the episode a Trek comedy gem. And, for those who like that sort of thing, we get to see Dr. Crusher's O face.

But now I hear something very faint. I think it is...

"Whispers"

We start with O'Brien on the run, going back to warn the Paradas, that something bad is going to happen at their peace talks. It's the second episode in a row that the Federation's involved with settling a conflict of some kind.

Then we go back in time, and Keiko and Molly are acting super freaky, leaving for school at 5:30. I'd say that, given the marital troubles that Bashir just said everyone knows about, it seems that Keiko is leaving Miles. Maybe he should check the station logs to see who's been visiting his quarters while he was away?

In retrospect, it's funny that they told Molly her "dad" was a replicant.

I liked the way this one was shot. In one Keiko/O'Brien scene, the camera is tight on both of their faces, ramping up the tension.

When O'Brien mentioned that the Paradas smell bad when they get upset, originally I thought that he just smelled bad, which was why everyone was avoiding him and Sisko assigned him to work alone in the upper pylons.

The episode is interesting, but a little slow, until about the time that Odo gets back. Up until then, it's pretty much building tension and deepening the mystery, but that's when the action starts.

So...what about the big plot twist? As soon as I saw the "real" O'Brien, it all made sense. Like "Course: Oblivion," this is a Trek episode that owes a lot to Philip K. Dick.

In fact, it's very, very similar to his short story "Impostor," in which a scientist is believed to have been killed and replaced by a robot spy who has been implanted with a bomb that will destroy a big chunk of the earth when the trigger phrase is spoken.

Even though it's been out for almost 60 years, I'll spoiler the ending:

Olham was trembling. His teeth chattered. He looked from the knife to the body. "This can't be Olham," he said. His mind spun, everything was whirling. "Was I wrong?"

He gaped.

"But if that's Olham, I must be --"

He did not complete the sentence, only the first phrase. The blast was visible all the way to Alpha Centauri.

So I chuckled at the revelation about O'Brien.

I liked it--at least it was doing something a little different.
 
That episode really gets me...the replicant still loves Molly and Keiko and is just as much a victim in what the Paradas did, as anybody else in this scenario. Maybe even more so, because they created a sentient life for the sake of tormenting it.
 
Whispers is a good one, though I might think that because it's a shining spot in the middle of this long slum in the middle of the season. We're not out of the woods yet, this is like an oasis in the middle of the Sahara.

But, it does have some pretty good acting in it. The scenes where O'Brien thinks they've gotten to Odo and where he thinks Keiko has put something in the food are very well played. It also does a very good job of escalating the tension throughout the episode.

Though I do find it odd that they felt comfortable telling Molly that he was a replicant, but didn't feel telling Jake was wise.
 
BTW, Ghemor, you might be pleased to hear that one of my students is a Trek fan, and her favorite race is Cardassians. I told her I'd be keeping an eye on her.
 
I loved that episode but I always found it confusing the station is firing green beams at the Runabout as it fled...not really consistent with anything that went before or after.

It did well for the ending to not be some holodeck gone awry or other version of a dream sequence though, tbh,
 
Oh why do the leaves
Of the Mulberry tree
Whisper differently now
And why is the nightingale singing
At noon on the Mulberry bow
For some most mysterious reason
This isn't the garden I know
No it's paradise now
That was only a garden
A moment ago

(big musical flourish)
Take my hand
I'm a stranger in....

"Paradise"

O'Brien doesn't spend much time at home, does he? This is the third episode in a row (maybe the fourth?) that he's on an away mission. You'd think that after the stress of being replaced by a replicant they'd at least give him a week or two off for R&R with his family, but I guess not. Another black mark against Starfleet's HR policies. Though maybe he finds Keiko so annoying that he volunteers for all of these away missions.

My big question is, what kind of fool sounds out a two-man team on a runabout and has both people beam down to the surface? Yeah, it sucks not be to able to do the cool stuff, but if Michael Collins did it, surely the Starfleeters could as well. It makes sense not to send out less than three-man crews, just so you can have relief shifts.

And even the rescue mission is just two (wo)men, because it's not like they knew that there was a runaway runabout that would need to be manned. Or womanned, as the case may be. Again, another black eye for Starfleet policies.

At the end of the tease, we see a guy with a bow and arrow order Sisko and O'Brien to stop, and I think, "oh shit, this is some kind of Robin Hood planet." The sad thing is that I'm glad that at least it's not leprechauns, which I've developed a pathological fear of showing up on DS9, thanks to the backstory behind "If Wishes Were Horses."

Basically you've got Alixus (though it sounds like Alexis), who's an anti-technology nut, leading this group of people who, because of a duonetic field, can't use any electronics. they say it's because of the minerals in the marshes, but I'm amazed that the writers didn't think that someone would get the idea of hiking up a mountain and sending out a distress call.

So they want Sisko and O'Brien to suck it up and join them. Alixus's son gets a little too excited when he talks about having two able-bodied men around. At that point, Sisko hadn't even taken off his shirt yet.

Alixus asks Sisko to take off his uniform, and Sisko refuses. From the defiant look in his eyes, I get the feeling that he's channeling Sir Alec Guinness from Bridge on the River Kwai. I'm going to have to have my esper rating checked, because before the episode is over, he and Alixus do a complete homage to the Nicholson/Saito scenes from that movie, including Sisko being kept in "the oven."

Except that Sisko's only too eager to dismantle Alixus's society. And when he asks if Cassandra was sent to his room "to make love to" him made me guffaw for some reason.

Well, there are certainly worse performances to be inspired by, and I'm just thrilled to see Avery Brooks finally given something to do. Has anyone ever asked him whether he was explicitly thinking of Kwai while making this episode? It's not mentioned on MA, but there seems such a strong parallel that I'd be surprised if he wasn't.

Also some nice backstory about Sisko being a lousy poker player.

It's a decent story with potential that completely falls apart at the end. There are several problems with the colonists wanting to stay there in isolation.

There seem to be about 3 dozen colonists, far too few to establish a viable colony. According to teh interwebz, they'd need at least 160 colonists to set up a society that wouldn't be drastically inbred in a few generations.

What about the children? Won't somebody please think of the children? Seriously, no parent would condemn their child to living on a remote planet, always in danger of dying from a bug bite, just because they wanted to get off the grid. I couldn't believe that the parents didn't want to get their kids out of there.

The story does a good job of showing the downside of the anti-tech lunatic fringe, as well as the dangers of valuing abstractions and philosophies over human lives. My wife was surprised that no one went up to Alixus and slapped her at the end. I thought all of the colonists were going to stone her to death. I know if I was a friend of Meg's I'd have been pretty pissed.

As a Trek episode, it's decent. The mostly-strong performance from Brooks redeems it. I couldn't help thinking that, with very few tweaks, this could have been Kirk and Spock during the 3rd season of TOS or Janeway and Torres on VOY, so it's not exactly tailored to DS9's strengths.
 
One critisim I would have, out of the hundreds of billions of people in the Federation, Alixus couldn't find enough people that would voluntry form a low/no tech colony?
 
"Sub Rosa" rocks. "It just rolled in" is what makes the episode a Trek comedy gem. And, for those who like that sort of thing, we get to see Dr. Crusher's O face.

But now I hear something very faint. I think it is...

"Whispers"

We start with O'Brien on the run, going back to warn the Paradas, that something bad is going to happen at their peace talks. It's the second episode in a row that the Federation's involved with settling a conflict of some kind.

I enjoyed this ep. I thought the tension built quite nicely.
 
Oh why do the leaves
Of the Mulberry tree
Whisper differently now
And why is the nightingale singing
At noon on the Mulberry bow
For some most mysterious reason
This isn't the garden I know
No it's paradise now
That was only a garden
A moment ago

(big musical flourish)
Take my hand
I'm a stranger in....

"Paradise"

O'Brien doesn't spend much time at home, does he? This is the third episode in a row (maybe the fourth?) that he's on an away mission. You'd think that after the stress of being replaced by a replicant they'd at least give him a week or two off for R&R with his family, but I guess not. Another black mark against Starfleet's HR policies. Though maybe he finds Keiko so annoying that he volunteers for all of these away missions.

Gail Strickland used to be one of my favorite actesses. She almost always played the strong woman -- but did it well.

I agree, though, I could see it as a Janeway/Torres story.
 
How do I feel about Paradise? .... "Hate" is probably the best word I can think of. Easily one of my least favorites of DS9.

This episode suffers from SO many problems.

1.) I get the feeling that the writers wanted us left with the idea that either way was good, Sisko's or Alixus'. The problem with that is that Alixus is not presented as a likeable character by any stretch of the imagination. She has literally kidnapped these people, systematically brainwashed them over the course of years, is essentially imprisoning them and (I don't know how else to say it) torturing them with her brutal discipline methods all in order to satisfy her own desires and philosophy. Sisko comes off as the unalloyed hero in this story, leaving us with no choice but to side with him and his "technology" stance. If you want us to think that both sides have merit, you need to make the "villain" much more sympathetic.

2.) Like you said, nobody ever thought to search the surrounding area for a "non-interference" site?

3.) Like MacLeod said, in all the Federation she couldn't find volunteers? Did she really have to shanghai all of these innocent people and use them for her little experiment?

4.) I simply cannot buy that every single colonist would want to stay after O'Brien reveals what's been going on. Some of them want to stay - fine, good storytelling right there. But all of them?! I don't think so. Not one thought something like "I would like to see this world of technology" or "You know, I don't really enjoy scratching a life out of mud and sweat"? How about the one man who Alixus was constantly putting in "the box" for trivial matters? You would think he would jump at the chance to get away from that situation, especially once he learned that he didn't have to go through what he went through in the first place. Oh, but Alixus says he would probably be in jail if it weren't for her. Well, I'd say that a Federation Penal Colony is a MUCH better place to end up than a damn sweat-box!

Which leads me to.... 5.) Alixus is portrayed as believing that her philosophy is much better than the Federation's because it allows people to realize their true potential. She even says as much to Joseph at the end, saying he would have spent his life as a small-time handy-man in the Federation. First question - who is to say what a person's "true" potential is? Alixus thinks she knows what everyone's is, and is it any shock that their potential matches her unique philosophy? Again, the villain isn't as sympathetic as she needs to be. Second question - who the hell is Alixus to decide what Joseph's path should be? Did she ever stop to think that maybe some of them would have been happy being handy-men, or file clerks or whatever they would ended up being? No, because her ideas trump their rights to their own persons as far as she's concerned. Nobody is allowed to be happy unless they're following her path.

I could go on for hours about Paradise, but I'll leave it at those five for now.

The only good to come from it is that it finally gives Brooks something to sink his teeth into. But that isn't near enough to save it, IMHO.
 
^ Yes, "Paradise" opens up all sorts of interesting philosophical questions.

It also turns its back on ten thousand years of humans working together and assumes that you can better reach your full potential in a community of three dozen than one of billions.

The actress who played her did a great job, though--a formidable foil for Sisko. I've noticed that DS9 seems to have more strong female characters than TNG did--Opaka, Winn, and Alixus are just three I can think of, in addition to the regulars.
 
Trying to guess the content of episodes from their titles, I've found out, is pure...

"Shadowplay"

I thought this was going to be a political/psychological thriller with Garak. I told my wife that if Garak was in the opening shot, it'd all be good.

Instead, we get a runabout with yet another 2-man crew (well, Trill and shapeshifter). They find yet another planet with yet another mysterious field. They're also held at weapon-point at the end of the tease. Seems they were falling into a bit of a pattern here.

It's a standard "Feds encounter an isolated village where strange things are happening plot" that's redeemed by a very strong performance from Rene Auberjonois. He was just amazing in this. It helps that he had a good guest cast to work with--again, strong all around there. Even the little girl was fantastic. It always cracks me up when child actors are able to totally nail their performances, even when they involve spouting technobabble, when adult actors just look confused or bored. I call this the Pomers/Beltran effect. Here, I'd contrast the actress who played Taya with the one who played Cassandra in the previous episode.

There's also a good B-story, with Jake and O'Brien. Sisko is pretty good-natured about Jake rejecting Starfleet, but he's a good dad. Nice backstory for O'Brien, too. We've learned more about him in the past two episodes than we did on 5 seasons of TNG, minus "The Wounded."

They even threw in a C-story, with Quark trying to take advantage of Odo's absence. I love it when things click together like that.

The funny part of that story is that Vedek Bariel, one of the most distinguished religious leaders of Bajor, is lured to the station to be Kira's himbo. That just totally cracks me up. Plus, I got to say, "it's her naked dream boyfriend!" when he showed up. "Not diverting enough" totally makes the whole thing even better.

I really liked this one--it had another quasi-Dickian idea (what if we're all just someone else's simulation) and it featured strong acting all around. Plus we have even more foreshadowing of the Dominion, who we see are interested in much more than tulaberries.
 
^ I'm actually a little surprised you liked "Shadowplay." I don't hate it, but I don't think it's great either.

Incidentally, you're almost out of the woods. There's one more fairly mediocre episode, and then you're on to season 2's very strong finish.
 
Well, this one wasn't just mediocre, it was kind of confusing. Not what you'd expect when...

"Playing God"


The title gave me a Voyager flashback. This could have been a great Doctor episode.

We start off with a few Pakleds. Because if there's anything that Trek fans wanted to see more of from TNG, it's Pakleds.

Arjin is there to be hosted by Jadzia in a Trill host-in-training thing. On the plus side, we get to see a little more from Dax. On the negative side, the B story about the proto universe makes no sense. Even if they get it back through the wormhole, won't it eventually consume our entire universe anyway? It really wasn't clear if they put it back in its "home" universe or just parked it somewhere out of sight.

Being a married man, the only thing I could think about in Dax's towel scene was that, wow, her hair looks much better down like that. Then in the next scene they've given her the head hump again. It's like it was a rule that Trek had to take attractive women and give them the least flattering hair-styling possible. It's one of my major pet peeves for the franchise.

The vole-hunting sub-plot was strange. Does it become a plot arc or something? And the rubber vole managed to look hideously repulsive and completely fake at the same time.

I really don't have too much more of a reaction to this one. I really liked Quark's scene with Arjin, and we learned more about Dax. That's about it.
 
The resolution to this episode cracks me up. "Oh no, there is a horribly destructive item! Let's just drop it off in the middle of space so it can be someone else's problem." Space-litter, indeed.
 
Think about the name of the episode: "Playing God" with an initiate's career, "Playing God" with a proto-universe, "Playing God" with a lifeform called the voles. What I like about this episode is that it poses the question: When do we respect life? The Vole story arc contrasts how the universe is treated. We have no problem killing ants, rats, etc but we have ultimate respect of human life. We don't kill ants for food, as the protouniverse is consuming ours, we kill them because they are nusance. Sisko plays out this condundrum, the contradiction, in trying to find a way for the universe to exist, even though they are more destructive and we have more reason to destroy it (our survival) than he does in ordering the execution of the Vole population. Dax is in a position where she is a "god" in this man's life. It makes her reflect on that power, how she was treated as an initiate.
 
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