Miles O`Brian
- Thread starter Ainhoa
- Start date
He totally isn't stereotypical because he doesn't wear a tweed cap.
Anglo-Irish relations are doing pretty good right now, we don't need to wait until the 24th century. But yes, it was great that O'Brien never fell into the old stereotypes and was just a guy that happened to be Irish. It's especially nice when compared with TNG and Voyager's insulting caricatures. 
^ Ah, but which were worse? TNG's or VOY's?
Makes sense. But TNG is guilty of multiple ethnic insensitivities. There's the Irish stereotypes in Up the Long Ladder, Scottish stereotypes in Sub Rosa and English stereotypes in crotchety, old, asshole Picard of the early seasons (odd, since he was supposed to be French).
But anyway.... yeah, Miles O'Brien - great guy.
Not to mention Colm Meaney....
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=144052
But anyway.... yeah, Miles O'Brien - great guy.
Not to mention Colm Meaney....
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=144052
I know relations between Eire and UK are good now.Anglo-Irish relations are doing pretty good right now, we don't need to wait until the 24th century. But yes, it was great that O'Brien never fell into the old stereotypes and was just a guy that happened to be Irish. It's especially nice when compared with TNG and Voyager's insulting caricatures.
Wasn`t there an episode of TNG with a group of Irish Travellers or something?
It's not just that, Irish and English peoples have been getting along just fine for decades now. Sure, there was all that stuff that went on in Northern Ireland, but that was mainly Northern Irish people fighting other Northern Irish people, it wasn't really an Irish vs English thing. An Irishman and an Englishman being friends isn't really a big deal today, why would it be in the 24th century?
They didn't ride around the Enterprise on horses or try to kidnap my dog, so they weren't real Travellers.Wasn`t there an episode of TNG with a group of Irish Travellers or something?
They tried to kidnap him a few times. The kids used to tie a rope around his neck, drag him down the street to their site and tie the rope to a tree. He'd then chew through the rope and come home. We must have found him with a chewed rope around his neck a half-dozen times before he finally disappeared for good. 
Voyager's, because they did it twice!
I actually think the TNG episode is more insulting as they were 24th century Irish characters. Colm Meaney protested when the DS9 writers planned for "If Wishes Were Horses" to feature a leprechaun rather than Rumpelstiltskin. I wonder what he thought of "Up the Long Ladder"?
I would guess he thought that he should keep his mouth shut and try not to gain a reputation as a trouble maker in case they stopped hiring him. Once he was on DS9 and had a contract, he possibly felt more secure about questioning the writers.
Then again, he did take a role in The Magical Legend of the Leprechauns, so who knows what he really thinks?
In my opinion, Fair Haven was worse. That was set in a supposedly authentic (according to Janeway) recreation of late 19th century Ireland, yet it completely ignored the serious political and social issues that were taking place then that are a major part of our history. It's one thing to do an episode with offensive caricatures, but whitewashing history as well? Bah!
Then again, he did take a role in The Magical Legend of the Leprechauns, so who knows what he really thinks?
Luckily, our dogs have always been scared of fireworks so they tend not to wander away from home around Halloween. But we lost two dogs to random disappearance and we think they were taken away both times.
No, they were Bringloidi, O'Brien was a 24th century Irish character. Just like the modern Amish aren't 21st century Swiss.toughlittleship said:
In my opinion, Fair Haven was worse. That was set in a supposedly authentic (according to Janeway) recreation of late 19th century Ireland, yet it completely ignored the serious political and social issues that were taking place then that are a major part of our history. It's one thing to do an episode with offensive caricatures, but whitewashing history as well? Bah!
I gotta go with "Up the Long Ladder" being more offensive.
Okay, they're basically some kind of Amish. That doesn't really excuse the hoary stereotypes of moronic Irish peasants... IN THE FUTURE! Not even the Amish are like that, probably.
Not only that but it's a very Star Trek sentiment, as I think was noted in the DS9 Companion. The original series had Americans, Russians and Japanese getting along marvelously, after all - Chekov and Sulu were practically best friends, so clearly neither of them was nursing a grudge about 1905 or Sakhalin.
And The Next Generation's only stab at the issue of Northern Ireland - back when it was actually topical - was "The High Ground", an episode that plays with whether or not terrorists get to be morally justified like George Washington totally was, you guys, and fyi Ireland was united violently.
O'Brien and Bashir playing darts and bonding over Battle of Britain and Brian Boru games, by contrast, seems the subtlest and most damned effective way to have done it. I sure as bloody well don't remember anything significant about 'The Troubles' beyond being told when the Good Friday agreement was signed, but I do remember sitting in front of the TV watching these guys play darts.
Sidebar:
You'd be surprised. I literally just noted this week that Jeri Johnson's historical notes for her edition of Ulysses refer to 'southern Ireland' (for the post-1922 Irish Free State) and 'Eire' (for the republic). Which makes the decision to not call the Irish War of Independence the Anglo-Irish War all the more baffling. If you're going to be a tendentious Oxonian be consistent about it.
Okay, they're basically some kind of Amish. That doesn't really excuse the hoary stereotypes of moronic Irish peasants... IN THE FUTURE! Not even the Amish are like that, probably.
It's not just that, Irish and English peoples have been getting along just fine for decades now. Sure, there was all that stuff that went on in Northern Ireland, but that was mainly Northern Irish people fighting other Northern Irish people, it wasn't really an Irish vs English thing. An Irishman and an Englishman being friends isn't really a big deal today, why would it be in the 24th century?
Not only that but it's a very Star Trek sentiment, as I think was noted in the DS9 Companion. The original series had Americans, Russians and Japanese getting along marvelously, after all - Chekov and Sulu were practically best friends, so clearly neither of them was nursing a grudge about 1905 or Sakhalin.
And The Next Generation's only stab at the issue of Northern Ireland - back when it was actually topical - was "The High Ground", an episode that plays with whether or not terrorists get to be morally justified like George Washington totally was, you guys, and fyi Ireland was united violently.
O'Brien and Bashir playing darts and bonding over Battle of Britain and Brian Boru games, by contrast, seems the subtlest and most damned effective way to have done it. I sure as bloody well don't remember anything significant about 'The Troubles' beyond being told when the Good Friday agreement was signed, but I do remember sitting in front of the TV watching these guys play darts.
Sidebar:
You'd be surprised. I literally just noted this week that Jeri Johnson's historical notes for her edition of Ulysses refer to 'southern Ireland' (for the post-1922 Irish Free State) and 'Eire' (for the republic). Which makes the decision to not call the Irish War of Independence the Anglo-Irish War all the more baffling. If you're going to be a tendentious Oxonian be consistent about it.
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I guess I just don't see them as Irish, I imagine that they are descended from a group of Irish Americans that wanted to be "Irish" as they imagined it, realised that Ireland isn't "Irish" so they flew away to another planet to recreate the "real" Ireland. They don't mean to be offensive, they're just the result of generations of compounded misconceptions based off of Irish Spring commercials. Sure, it's offensive, but also kind of sad.
And I just find the use of Éire to be silly. The constitution is clear that when speaking in English this country is called "Ireland", and since we're all speaking English on this board I would expect us all to call the country by that name. If we were to have a conversation about Norway then I wouldn't expect to see anybody referring to it as Norge, or if we were discussing China I doubt anyone would refer to it as 中华人民共和国.
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