STAR WARS PREQUELS - a love/hate relationship

[The Borgified Corpse]

That, and killing off the best bad guy in the first movie didn't help.

Darth Maul was pure Boba Fett: Some guy who looks cool and says nothing, a perfect toy but a little light on the ground as far as villains went. I think he actually had more dialogue in his teaser then he did in the actual film:

He looks cool and he kicks ass. What more do you need (particularly when you have Palpatine to do all the dialogue-based villainy)?

I have to admit I kinda agree with the fans who say that they like the prequels better than the original trilogy. Granted, no one in the prequels manages the same kind of effortless screen chemistry that Luke, Han, & Leia have. But there's more pathos in the last half of Revenge of the Sith than there is in the entire original trilogy. And while dialogue & nuance were never Lucas' strong suits, the prequels are a masterpiece of visual art direction. Using limitless technology & a near limitless budget, he created an exotic alien tableau of epic proportions that I don't think any other filmmaker will ever have the audacity to try to match. I admire Lucas immensely for making the prequels his own. Watching the bonus features of him at work, he's clearly just a big kid playing make-believe with multi-million dollar resources.

There's a school of thought out there that production values don't matter so long as you've got a good story. (Being an old school Doctor Who fan, I'm very familiar with this mindset.) But couldn't the opposite also be true? If Shakespeare's words need no visual embellishment, then why is dialogue embellishment so essential when the visual pallette is so rich?

My heretical ranking of the films:

1. Revenge of the Sith
2. Attack of the Clones
3. A New Hope
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Empire Strikes Back
6. The Phantom Menace

 

[HAL.9000]

My heretical ranking of the films:

1. Revenge of the Sith
2. Attack of the Clones
3. A New Hope
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Empire Strikes Back
6. The Phantom Menace

Mine:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Attack of the Clones (Only because the plot confused the fuck out of me..I had to watch it a few times to get it.)
6. Phantom Menace.

 

[Kegg]

I don't think the prequel trilogy are necessarily incomparable in terms of visual spectacle - the Lord of the Rings films and Avatar fare rather well in that field - but they are definitely an outsized, expansive and lavish space opera setting I've always quite frankly liked. You can barely throw a stone in those films without hitting yet another spaceship design, some futuristic architecture, or a weird looking alien.

He looks cool and he kicks ass. What more do you need (particularly when you have Palpatine to do all the dialogue-based villainy)?

He doesn't need to be anything more. But I was disagreeing with the idea that he was 'the best bad guy in the first movie'. Palpatine is the better villain.

(Besides, the original trilogy offed Grand Moff Tarkin in the first movie too, and he was a fun bad guy.)

 

[HAL.9000]

He doesn't need to be anything more. But I was disagreeing with the idea that he was 'the best bad guy in the first movie'. Palpatine is the better villain.

I respectfully disagree. although we are talking different shades of "bad guy." Darth Maul was terrifying to look at. His double bladed lightsaber meant business and he was super fluid while fighting..almost impossible to touch.

A lame villain was Count Dooku. Even his name was stupid. along with General Grievous.

Who came up with these dumb names anyway?

I kept expecting "Captain Callous" and "Princess PMS" to show up any minute.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I don't think the prequel trilogy are necessarily incomparable in terms of visual spectacle - the Lord of the Rings films and Avatar fare rather well in that field - but they are definitely an outsized, expansive and lavish space opera setting I've always quite frankly liked. You can barely throw a stone in those films without hitting yet another spaceship design, some futuristic architecture, or a weird looking alien.

There are some other pretty cool looking movies out there-- Avatar, The Lord of the Rings, Tron Legacy, and I might even through Pirates of the Caribbean in there for good measure. But The Lord of the Rings & Pirates of the Caribbean are still rooted in some level of realism, depicting historical periods of Earth that either did exist or could have existed. Avatar & Tron Legacy are exotic but pretty uniform, taking us to a single alien location. (In fact, the uniform black, blue, & orange color palette of Tron Legacy is a key part of its visual strength.) The Star Wars prequels simply drown you in variety.

 

[Kegg]

I respectfully disagree. although we are talking different shades of "bad guy." Darth Maul was terrifying to look at. His double bladed lightsaber meant business and he was super fluid will fighting..almost impossible to touch.

I thought you were the guy who hated these films.

Darth Maul was well designed aesthetically and well cherographed in combat, but this didn't stop him being a cipher. He's essentially presented as a willing servitor to Palpatine, who carries out the Sith Lord's plans with little agency or personality of his own.

Sure, he works in that role. But I don't see the pupppet as a better villain then the puppet master.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

^Well, since the prequels are mostly just designed to work on a visual level anyway, Darth Maul is the epitome of the prequel trilogy aesthetic. I mean, in a world where George Lucas is writing the dialogue, there's something very noble in staying silent.

Who came up with these dumb names anyway?

I kept expecting "Captain Callous" and "Princess PMS" to show up any minute.

Those will be the Sith names of Han & Leia when they go Dark Side in the next round of EU novels. (I mean, they're probably due, aren't they? Haven't all of the other characters gone evil at least once in the novels by now?)

 

[HAL.9000]

I respectfully disagree. although we are talking different shades of "bad guy." Darth Maul was terrifying to look at. His double bladed lightsaber meant business and he was super fluid will fighting..almost impossible to touch.

I thought you were the guy who hated these films.

I do hate the prequels, but Darth Maul was a very cool bad guy. Naturally Lucas killed of his best villian early...in his infinite wisdom [/more saracsm]

...instead of developing him further in the other films. A dual between Vader and maul would have been in order. Sith love killing their own to establish supremacy, and the Emporor would have loved it. I can just hear him cackling in the background as Maul and Vader try to kill each other.

 

[Distorted Humor]

^Well, since the prequels are mostly just designed to work on a visual level anyway, Darth Maul is the epitome of the prequel trilogy aesthetic. I mean, in a world where George Lucas is writing the dialogue, there's something very noble in staying silent.

)

Sigged....

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

^Wouldn't have worked with the narrative though. As a seasoned "Star Wars: Epic Duels" player will tell you, it's very difficult for Darth Vader to defeat Darth Maul. (But then, what do I know? Last time I played, I got pwned by a noob playing as Han Solo.)

 

[HAL.9000]

Last time I played, I got pwned by a noob playing as Han Solo.)

..and you actually admit it?

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

^Well.... She was hot...

...and married...

^Well, since the prequels are mostly just designed to work on a visual level anyway, Darth Maul is the epitome of the prequel trilogy aesthetic. I mean, in a world where George Lucas is writing the dialogue, there's something very noble in staying silent.

)

Sigged....

Cool! Thanks! Reminds me that I was meaning to sig Kegg from a comment upthread. It's a shame. I'll miss Greg Cox's artsy railway station movie review. But this is just so much more universal.

 

[DarKush]

Anakin be born on Tatoonine

He wasn't born on Tatooine. He said he was three when he first got there (TPM).

Splitting hairs.

Thanks. I haven't seen TPM in a while so I don't remember that part. But the main point is that the Skywalkers had made a home on Tatoonine, and it is more likely that planet that Anakin would consider his home.

 

[HAL.9000]

Do you all realize that the whole reason for Queen Amidala was to give Princess Leia some royal heritage...which was completely unneeded by Episode 3. Princess Leia was a "princess" for an entirely different reason based on her adopted parents with no connection to Naboo.

Obviously the prequels were written as they were produced with no foresight to the future whatsoever. Very sloppy work.

 

[Set Harth]

We already knew Leia was adopted way back in Episode 6. Making Amidala a queen probably has to do with the corresponding plot dynamic in The Hidden Fortress.

 

[InklingStar]

I respectfully disagree. although we are talking different shades of "bad guy." Darth Maul was terrifying to look at. His double bladed lightsaber meant business and he was super fluid will fighting..almost impossible to touch.

I thought you were the guy who hated these films.

Darth Maul was well designed aesthetically and well cherographed in combat, but this didn't stop him being a cipher. He's essentially presented as a willing servitor to Palpatine, who carries out the Sith Lord's plans with little agency or personality of his own.

Sure, he works in that role. But I don't see the pupppet as a better villain then the puppet master.

Indeed. Maul was a thug. A badass thug, but a thug nonetheless. I find Dooku to be a much more complicated villain. The former Jedi, turned Sith. A wise and noble man who is serving evil - why? Does he believe in Sidious' aims? Does he want to use the Dark Side to make himself invincible? Or did he start by trying to infiltrate the Dark Side, to destroy Sidious like he told Obi-Wan, only to find the dark path dominating his destiny? He reminds me of Christopher Lee's other character from the decade, Saruman the White. Saruman was a wise and noble leader of good, and sought to destroy the evil Sauron. As he studied Sauron's ways, looking for an advantage, he began to see him not as the enemy but as a rival who was after the same power. Saruman essentially came to believe that he had to become like Sauron to destroy him, and that led him into evil. I like to think Dooku had a similar path.

Maul's combat style is flashy and in-your-face but I find Dooku's saber fencing to be more aesthetically pleasing. It looks so effortless, the way Robin Hood or Inigo Montoya might duel.

Anyway I cannot see Darth Maul plotting to assassinate Sidious like the Sith are wont to do. The drama of the throne room battle in RotJ is fascinating because both Sidious and Vader are trying to turn Luke against the other, yet presenting a united front. Maul is simply a fighter, with no creativity or people skills.

 

[HAL.9000]

Maul is simply a fighter, with no creativity or people skills.

Excellent assessment.

Maul was basically a hitman...nothing else.

 

[JaxsBrokenHeart]

I think I was just put off by the prequels taking certain elements and concepts and turning them into rules or dogma:

-There's an evil wielder of the Dark Side named Darth Vader; every sith gets the name Darth

-Obi-Wan was a legendary Jedi who wore brown robes (as he was on desert planet); all Jedis wear the same brown robes

-Luke trained his lightsaber skills with blast shield and remote; all young Jedi train with them

-Yoda uses a different way of talking as a teaching method; he talks like that all the time

-No mention of Yoda/Kenobi having mates/families; The Jedi leave their families and have no mates (Anakin excepted)

It just feels like they had to do these off-putting things to remind us that we were in fact watching a Star Wars film in case we forgot.

 

[HAL.9000]

-No mention of Yoda/Kenobi having mates/families; The Jedi leave their families and have no mates (Anakin excepted)

The whole idea of any personal attachment or love being prohibited because it can be precursor to the dark side killed it for me. This basically made Jedi, robots.

 

[DarKush]

-No mention of Yoda/Kenobi having mates/families; The Jedi leave their families and have no mates (Anakin excepted)

The whole idea of any personal attachment or love being prohibited because it can be precursor to the dark side killed it for me. This basically made Jedi, robots.

I sort of liked it. It made the Jedi sterile (in more ways than one), and it did lead to them being detached, which made their downfall more likely, since they were attuned and above the people they were supposed to be protecting.

The one issue I had with the no relationships was how there always seemed to be an endless supply of Force users from which they could recruit from, and by recruit, I mean take from their families (didn't like that part). It seemed like there should've some type of attempts at breeding. It would've made more sense to me to have Anakin be the child of two powerful Jedi or Force wielders instead of the virgin birth.