STAR WARS PREQUELS - a love/hate relationship

[Mach5]

Re: I hate the STAR WARS PREQUELS!!!

The internet has moved on...

No, it really hasn't.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

The prequels have several cool "Star Wars" moments... but whenever I run across them on TV and try to watch more than 20 minutes of it... even the "good" prequel (Revenge of the Sith) is just so ridiculously cringeworthy at times. Dialogue, acting, lack of charisma, oy... it's just impossible to sit through.

Prequels = "Youtube films". Great in 3 minute cuts of cool moments.

 

[Whofan]

Regarding the Dooku thing, there's a deleted scene-unfortunately not on the DVD-where Obi-Wan is talking with the Jedi Librarian about Dooku's leaving (In the film itself, you can see Obi-Wan looking at Dooku's statue when she comes up to him, the scene would've been here.) Apparentally Dooku got disenchanted with the Jedi after Qui-Gon's death, hence his leaving. How Sidious found him, the Seperatist movement, just what was up with Sifo-Dyas and so on are expalined in the novels.

And yeah, I know it should've been explained in the movie...but they left it in the novels/comics/video game instead.




Also the Sith rule of two doesn't necesarilly rule out other Dark side users-Asajj Ventress from the Clone wars media, for example. The books also elaborate that there was an army of Sith, but they were defeated and the surviving Sith went undercover.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Re: I hate the STAR WARS PREQUELS!!!

The internet has moved on...

No, it really hasn't.

Actually... yeah...

...which I guess I don't get. Before the internet did we have such LONG division regarding things... or, more specifically, hold onto a dislike of a movie for this long? I just don't remember.

Or is this a phenomenon of instant access to media (DVDs, netflix) and a place to talk about it right away?

 

[Kegg]

...which I guess I don't get. Before the internet did we have such LONG division regarding things... or, more specifically, hold onto a dislike of a movie for this long? I just don't remember.

Fans of a given franchise will continue to hold something they dislike from that franchise in a certain notoriety. A slightly older example than the prequel films (with little chance of dying on the internet) would be Batman & Robin.

Digging deeper, and on a more forum relevant franchise, there's Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. I could also probably nod to say, HIghlander II: The Quickening.

A notorious film attached to something with a strong cult fanbase will have a respectably hated afterlife, basically.

 

[InklingStar]

Most criticisms of the prequels fall into two categories. The first one deals with expectations. After 20 years every fan had their own idea of what Anakin's fall and the Empire's rise would look like. When Lucas' idea did not match theirs, they were disappointed.

The second category is criticisms than can apply to the originals just as easily as the prequels, if the originals are stripped of their nostalgia. Wooden acting, goofy dialogue, meandering plots - these all apply equally to both stories.

 

[TheBrew]

Re: I hate the STAR WARS PREQUELS!!!

The internet has moved on...

No, it really hasn't.

Actually... yeah...

...which I guess I don't get. Before the internet did we have such LONG division regarding things... or, more specifically, hold onto a dislike of a movie for this long? I just don't remember.

Or is this a phenomenon of instant access to media (DVDs, netflix) and a place to talk about it right away?

I think that it is more that the internet gave some people a public forum to vent their sad pathetic frustrations in a way that would avoid making them look like crazy people to those who actually know them.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Most criticisms of the prequels fall into two categories. The first one deals with expectations. After 20 years every fan had their own idea of what Anakin's fall and the Empire's rise would look like. When Lucas' idea did not match theirs, they were disappointed.

The second category is criticisms than can apply to the originals just as easily as the prequels, if the originals are stripped of their nostalgia. Wooden acting, goofy dialogue, meandering plots - these all apply equally to both stories.

I disagree. I mean, you may be right part of the time. But the originals are superior films, films in which individual scenes really work to tell the story, and there is an edge to the material. Compare the Mos Eisley scene with any scene in the prequels, or the scene where Luke has to face his inner demons, or the grandness of when Yoda levitates the X-Wing. Those are just the big ones. The storytelling was far better in the original films... it's not just nostalgia.

 

[Sean Aaron]

even the "good" prequel (Revenge of the Sith)

The only one I think has any merit (and that's an exaggeration) is Phantom Menace, which is ironic considering how crap everyone thought it was. Little did they know that Lucas would try the most unconvincing romance in history and child murder in the next two films. My god.

 

[InklingStar]

Most criticisms of the prequels fall into two categories. The first one deals with expectations. After 20 years every fan had their own idea of what Anakin's fall and the Empire's rise would look like. When Lucas' idea did not match theirs, they were disappointed.

The second category is criticisms than can apply to the originals just as easily as the prequels, if the originals are stripped of their nostalgia. Wooden acting, goofy dialogue, meandering plots - these all apply equally to both stories.

I disagree. I mean, you may be right part of the time. But the originals are superior films, films in which individual scenes really work to tell the story, and there is an edge to the material. Compare the Mos Eisley scene with any scene in the prequels, or the scene where Luke has to face his inner demons, or the grandness of when Yoda levitates the X-Wing. Those are just the big ones. The storytelling was far better in the original films... it's not just nostalgia.

Not to be rude, nor to state the obvious, but all of that is your opinion. I like the originals, and those scenes you mentioned are great, but the prequels have their own moments of greatness.

I am not out to malign those who find the prequels are not their cup of tea. I just find it crazy that so many consider them to be so objectively bad that I must be deficient in some way because I enjoy them so much.

 

[Sean Aaron]

I am not out to malign those who find the prequels are not their cup of tea. I just find it crazy that so many consider them to be so objectively bad that I must be deficient in some way because I enjoy them so much.

Well, it's pretty obvious it's his opinion because like, he stated it, didn't he?

Anyway, just because someone (like me) thinks these movies suck doesn't mean they/I think you're an idiot. See the difference? It's really annoying when people get defencive when someone has a different opinion of something trivial like that. Like if I say I'm a vegetarian and you eat meat, it's not the same as my saying you're an immoral meat-eating dickwad. It's saying I'm a vegetarian.

 

[Harvey]

Wooden acting, goofy dialogue, meandering plots - these all apply equally to both stories.

I'd say the wooden acting syndrome is far, far worse in the prequels. Hamill's performance is so-so at times, but Ford is never as bad as any of the prequel actors end up being.

 

[InklingStar]

Anyway, just because someone (like me) thinks these movies suck doesn't mean they/I think you're an idiot. See the difference? It's really annoying when people get defencive when someone has a different opinion of something trivial like that. Like if I say I'm a vegetarian and you eat meat, it's not the same as my saying you're an immoral meat-eating dickwad. It's saying I'm a vegetarian.

The third one isn't half bad. But the first two...well...they're just not good movies, never mind good Star Wars movies.I just can't fathom how anyone can *like* them. The most I can say about them is that they have an epic scope. We rarely get epic space fantasy flicks, and they succeed in that sense through their mere existence. But that's really it.

I think that one thing that has become abundant,y clear since the release of the prequels is that there really is an audience for just about everything. I've never fully understood how it is that people can be entertained by bad/bland acting, sterile and unimaginative film making and stories that defy basic logic....and then you see that there are people that love that stuff and not in an ironic way. I guess if there are people that actually like living in dictatorships, or can knowingly fall in love with axe murderers...the existence of people that like really bad art is not that much of a stretch.

It does, however, leave me baffled as to why? The Redlettermedia videos pretty much sum up everything that was wrong with the prequels at a basic level...as bad films. Yet there are people that will swear up and down that they were pure gold...and I can only ask..why?

Hatred of the prequels has become the orthodoxy of Star Wars fandom, and people like me who really like them are constantly called upon to explain this heresy.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Hatred of the prequels has become the orthodoxy of Star Wars fandom, and people like me who really like them are constantly called upon to explain this heresy.

I don't hate them, I just think they suck. And I will never ask you to justify your love for them and hope you won't ask me to justify my love of Giant Monster movies or Kingdom of the Crystal Skull in return. Actually you can, it's okay.

Wow, I'm a Rear Admiral? When did that happen?

 

[Thestral]

Re: I hate the STAR WARS PREQUELS!!!

Unattractive people with no screen presence or speaking skills maundering on about personal obsessions and half-baked opinions is neither entertainment nor information. If they could be bothered to put their thoughts into coherent written form and publish/post them I might bother...with a few.

There are some internet reviewers I really like, but this is basically how I feel about Plinkett's reviews of the Star Wars prequels. Their greatest sin is that they're obnoxious and annoying in a way that even on their worst days the Nostalgia Critic and Linkara don't reach.

Anyway, just because someone (like me) thinks these movies suck doesn't mean they/I think you're an idiot. See the difference?

You may not think that. Other people do and have said so.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Re: I hate the STAR WARS PREQUELS!!!

You may not think that. Other people do and have said so.

Well, that's just goddam rude! The only people I can see doing that are bratty teenagers. Adult human beings shouldn't attack people because of their opinion of a movie.

Look I think these movies are crap, but I wouldn't denigrate someone because they liked them. Hell I was an apologist for Phantom Menace when it came out and said it was for kids and all that. After watching it a half-dozen times though and then Attack of the Clones a few times I was feeling doubts. After seeing Sith in the theatre I didn't buy the DVD until over a year after release - I had pre-ordered the two disc releases of the other ones. I already felt that Clones was inferior to Menace, but then Sith made me re-evaluate what I thought was good about any of them. And then I watched the Special Editions again and that was it. I just gave all my Star Wars DVDs to a charity shop and said a secret curse for George Lucas.

Then a year later I saw the two-disc versions with the original theatrical release in a bargain bin at Blockbuster and decided to get all of them and it was like it was okay to like Star Wars again (though I still skipped the Endor chapters of Return of the Jedi *shudder*) and that's where I am now.

Star Trek, on the other hand, is wonderful - except for those crappy TNG films, may they burn in hell!

 

[Set Harth]

Even from great distances, yet here we have Palpatine, a SITH LORD, oozing with the Dark side, and no Jedi was able to pick it up even when in his presence.

Maybe he was smart enough to "control his feelings" and not consciously use the Force when right in front of them. Automatic sensing of other Force-users is largely a myth, in that it does not always work that way, including in the OT. Also, Luke's Force use in TESB is potentially more noticeable due to the fact that the Jedi have been wiped out by that point, while the Force use of the Sith in the PT era occurs against the backdrop of Force use by literally thousands of active Jedi.

Palpatine should have been a hidden figure, not a public politician.

Palpatine was always said to have been a politician right from the beginning, as seen in the ANH novelization released in 1976 as well as all the pre-PT EU. Politician turns out to be the easiest path to absolute power... who knew?

The other flaw is this: there can only be two Sith at a time BS. A master and an apprentice. NOT really. I doubt Count Dooku converted over night. He was still around even when Darth maul lived. Last I checked that makes 3, not two.

That's complete nonsense. Count Dooku did indeed convert to the Sith at a fixed point in time; that's how it works, as we've seen in the films. Adding someone who is not yet a Sith to the two Sith does not make three Sith while Maul is alive. Dooku may have been growing disenchanted with the Jedi while Maul was alive, but he did not become the second Sith until Maul was already dead.

You don't usually see movies made that are so completely and utterly wretched that even the money-grubbing suits can see it and put a stop to it.

So what you're saying is... you don't usually see things happen which someone has prevented from happening?

Imagine what ass-kissing yes-men he must have been surrounded by

I know, it's strange. That's so not the norm in the corporate world, I've always wondered why Lucasfilm seems to stand out like a sore thumb in that respect.

But Lucasfilm is a private company, and there are no shareholders or money-grubbing suits to answer to.

Yeah, if Lucas had to answer to the shareholders and money-grubbing suits at 20th Century Fox, for example, I assume things would have been much different. Besides, it's not like money-grubbing suits ever churned out a bad film.

This is apocryphal at best. No one ever "plans" for nine movies. Not ever--not now, and especially not then

They did indeed claim that there would be nine movies at one point. That "no one ever does that now" is irrelevant.

I have yet to see a truly spirited defense of the PT that addresses and refutes those arguments instead of just attacking the haters.

It was put out there by Jim Raynor, and promptly ignored by the haters. End of story.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Hatred of the prequels has become the orthodoxy of Star Wars fandom

So has "giving a crap about whether or not Han fired first".

(About that...IMHO, the problem isn't who fires first, it's because the retooling of that scene is simply badly edited.)

 

[JarodRussell]

Geez, this thread will never go away, will it? You close one, and then it respawns.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Han didn't fire first.

He fired, and only he, fired. Which Is the point of the scene.