Design the Next Enterprise
- Thread starter Shikarnov
- Start date
one goes to deviant art the other goes to scifi-meshes
or if you were referring to how JES couldn't tell they were the same ship:
Sorry. Don't like it much.
I can see the inspiration for this design was a kind of "crouching spider, hidden dragon" motif. The problem with the execution appears (at least to me) to do with the rendering, especially this one. It appears as though the artist intentionally distorted the back end in order to preserve the M-like shape, when at that angle, the starboard wing would in reality be much higher to stay parallel with the port wing. Vektor, correct me if I'm wrong.
This design has a promising silhouette -- a stern neck, a seemingly balanced secondary hull. But in execution, this design sacrifices too much function for maintaining a form concept that should perhaps have been dropped. One of the things I actually liked about the STXI movie's treatment of the 1701 (on an otherwise short list) is that it exposes the secondary hull as a cavernous expanse where shuttlecraft get stored and things get built. It's truly an engineering hull. Or a brewery, but at least it's not an office complex.
This particular "1701-F" rendering appears to recast the entire secondary hull as an office complex. At least that's what I gather from the vertical windows and the numerous escape pods. There are four hangars to replace the one in the rear, two of which are positioned directly next to the twin impulse exhausts in the primary hull. (Could you really station landing pads next to impulse engines?) The other two are positioned on either side of the secondary hull using fin-like appendages. But if the engine pylons were positioned where the side-view silhouette suggests they actually should be (i.e., not bent over like in this rendering) they would actually block the doors. You can see for yourself the pylons blocking the doors in these sketches.
It's evidence that this ship was designed from the skin inward rather than from the core outward. The skin gives the requisite evidence of all the things the ship can do, just not in the usual places. But if you try to imagine an interior based on the things you're seeing on the outside, it can't happen. Functions take place on the inside of a machine, not the surface.
That's my beef with the function; let's move on to the form. The reality with doing any kind of abstract sculpture is that the form you're creating should be enabled to resemble or call to mind different archetypes from different angles, without revealing an undesired or unexpected shape or symbol from any one angle. While this particular rendering may evoke a kind of Fender Stratocaster motif from one angle, from another, the arrangement of the nacelles with respect to the secondary hull evokes memories of the platform lighting at a public subway station. It's too difficult for my mind, at least, to reconcile all the different things this shape tries to be.
DF "Starship Schizo" Scott
Mark Rademaker's idea for Ent-F, mmmmm, groovy:
http://mark-rademaker.blogspot.com/2011/01/enterprise-f-first-idea.html
http://mark-rademaker.blogspot.com/2011/01/enterprise-f-first-idea.html
Woah! Gnarly!
It's how I would picture the Enterprise if it was done in anime.
Um... okay.
[Looks around in mild confusion before adjusting "Expert Witness" name tag and proceeding to the stand.]
Do I need to be sworn in or anything?
To address the question, I believe the answer is no, you're not wrong. Judging by the side elevation, the starboard nacelle should be higher and more foreshortened to comply with correct perspective. However, it is not uncommon for these types of illustrations to play a bit loose with such things in the interest of clarity or to emphasize certain features.
It's an interesting design and the artistic quality is excellent, but I would have to agree that form is not only leading function but has possibly lapped it a couple of times.
I'm always amazed at how hard people try to do something "different" with the saucer-shaped primary hull, usually by tacking all sorts of shapes and contours and protuberances onto it. I say that as someone who went through about a dozen different concepts for the primary hull of my USS Grandeur trying to do the same thing so I feel qualified to judge. Most of the time these embellishments make no practical sense whatsoever and that's pretty much the vibe I'm getting here. Being clearly inspired by the Enterprise-J doesn't really help, at least not with me, because I didn't like that ship either.
Still, I think the overall design could be mostly salvaged by simply reversing the angle on the nacelle struts. I've never liked that "chicken-wing" look, not on the early design for the Enterprise-E and not here. It just kills the whole flow the ship's lines and makes me start to imagine clucking noises. Maybe shift the warp engines further back and pull them in a bit, then reverse the struts and connect them to those fins on either side of the forward secondary hull. Still different from the standard configuration but not as radical.
May I step down now?
Very nice sketches. afew of them sure give me a better idea what maybe cryptic may come up with. keep on sharing.
I hope my sloppy line work and bad proportions don't make me look like a hack. I do real quick thumbnails as I go, just roughing in the shape. If I could only find the few last ones I did, they are some where around here. On a side note, I have now heard a podcast and seen 2 youtube videos discussing the Ent-F, I am quasi famous LOL.
Interesting. You noted all the same observations I had when I first saw it.
I DO like it - but I like it for what it could BE, if reworked.
It looks like he came up with some gorgeous shapes, and then realized that he needed some boilerplate Star Trek starship details that everyone expects, such as lifeboat hatches, impulse engines, and so forth (which IMHO, he drew with expert precision and loving attention to detail)... but he had no idea where they should go, so he just stuck 'em on there willy-nilly, wherever they'd fit on the unusual shapes of his hull.
I don't care for the nacelles and struts. I'd chop 'em clean off, and start from scratch.
The witness is excused with the thanks of the court.From Vektor:
May I step down now?
Now, members of the jury. . . I ask you to think very carefully about all the things our expert witness, Mr. Lee, just said. How illustrators play loose with certain ideas in order to make sure they get seen. How form ends up distorting function in the name of coolness. How designers think they're doing different stuff with a design by duct-taping new shapes onto it. Keep all those things in mind. And tell me. . .
http://www.ryanchurch.com/picture/enterpriseexteriorbeauty1.jpg?pictureId=7785252
. . . how the hell this one gets to be the multi-million-dollar big screen ship! Would someone at Paramount please tell me the port nacelle's not bent down in order to fudge the fact that there would be no room for it in 3D space if it were parallel with the starboard nacelle. Or that the lower sensor cap on the primary hull is in the center of the disc and not whap-jawed at the two-o'clock angle. And that the windows and portholes and other design-like thingies weren't Photoshopped into the image 15 minutes before the deadline using a clone brush and a lousy pair of eyeballs. And these. . . dents, like busted seams, in the middle of the nacelles. What the frak are they?? We know the light source is from the top, yet they appear to be illuminated from beneath. Tell me the excuse here isn't something other than, "At the last minute, I needed to fill empty space."
The great thing we can all learn from Adam Ihle's fantastic rough sketches of Enterprise-F is that great ideas are never tacked onto a design from the outside. They're built from the core out. You don't start with a silhouette and create a shape to match it. You think in the third dimension at all times. Adam's design in every sketch is a vessel occupying space and consuming mass. You see where he tried things that didn't work and discovered things that did. Should the neck be lifted higher? Nah, I don't think so. Good try, though. That's what rough sketches are for.
You don't do experimental greeblies with the final draft.
And along the way. . . Ihlecreations, those trial sketches of the ship with the dual necks that converge around the sensor dome, either with a ring or an arrowhead? Those are astounding! I was floored. Sure, you arrived at a different (and still awesome) refinement with the necks along the "ears," but you should consider modeling this dual-neck concept as a sister ship, perhaps as a USS Picard or some such.
I'll take any one of your sketches, Adam, over the trial-and-error that inspired the Enterprise-XI.
DF "All Rise" Scott
I must add my congratulations to your accomplishment here.
I had not been following this thread and was only just made aware of it with concerns that your design was too close to that of my Ambassador... no problems there. While retaining a nice level of continuity with previous Designs, your Starship is a fresh new addition to the Federation (STO version); congratulations indeed.
While I'm especially impressed with what has now developed into your saucer warp ring, I'm equally mad that I didn't think of it first. Your idea provides an elegant solution to saucer warp capabilities without sticking on a pair of traditional nacelles... *damn*.
I see there are concerns that your twin-supports for the saucer are too thin but it seems to me that the combined thickness of those two are thicker than the Refit dorsal and would also be more stable than a single attach point. As for turbolifts traversing an inner curved shaft, yeah that would be possible (if each lift had it's own stasis field to keep a heads-up feeling inside), but since you'd basically be traveling through a rather complex engine system, I would suggest, instead, adding a small vertical connection, just large enough for a double turbolift shaft which would stay with the engineering hull during separation. It risks looking a little funky but I personally would try it.
Speaking of separation... during an emergency saucer landing (in my opinion), the bottom half of the ring could be jettisoned after hitting an atmosphere allowing the top half to become an airfoil which would also serve as a pair of stabilizing landing skids upon touchdown.
Be advised: while you may have been inspired and influenced by previous designs (like we all are), this one is exclusively yours. And while this accomplishment is yours to keep, the world of day-to-day business, these days, means your design may very well be modified by Cryptic, an unfortunately inevitable possibility when putting your design into the hands of someone who must, for some unimaginably silly reason, put their 'stamp' on it. But, then again, maybe they're better than that. Maybe they will indeed infuse your winning design into their universe 'as designed'. Then that 3D model you'll be getting really would mean something.
Meanwhile continue to refine your design until it's perfect in your mind (after your initial rush to get it in the contest)... 'cause I wanna see that baby in it's fully-rendered glory.
Well done,
Andrew-
Last edited:
Same goes for your Ambassador..
BTW, I've picked "Street Hawk" a while ago, great job on the bike.
Been ages ago that I've seen the series and it looks as great as I remembered it.
Mr. Probert,
Wow, thank you for your kind words. I am beyond humbled by having you taking the time to write to me. Honestly, it is kind of blowing my mind. While I have had some say I have joined the ranks of Trek designers I am no where near that list in my opinion all I did was draw up one ship. As for the ring idea I cannot take the credit there as it was not my idea originally. I am planning on fleshing out my design more, as time allows. Keep a look out here on this thread in the future I will post things as they progress. Once again thank you for the words of encouragement and support.
Wow, thank you for your kind words. I am beyond humbled by having you taking the time to write to me. Honestly, it is kind of blowing my mind. While I have had some say I have joined the ranks of Trek designers I am no where near that list in my opinion all I did was draw up one ship. As for the ring idea I cannot take the credit there as it was not my idea originally. I am planning on fleshing out my design more, as time allows. Keep a look out here on this thread in the future I will post things as they progress. Once again thank you for the words of encouragement and support.
